Calling all black Mners with university age kids!

[GreenLeafs]

Now this isn’t about universities that are full of black kids, nor is it meant to be about diversity policies the Unis have (some aren’t worth the paper it’s on!). It’s about top excellent universities where young black students feel comfortable and where they are just accepted as part of the student body.

Since I have embarked on the whole uni journey, I’ve noticed more and more, bright young kids deciding they are not going to university A, because it’s ‘too white and unfriendly’ and opting for university B, well below what they are capable of because there are lots of black people there. Oxbridge for instance, not even on their radar despite have excellent academics, supra curriculars etc. My DD and friends have already ruled out certain universities, so I’m hoping to start the conversation here. Where are your dc going or have been?

Mine is about to start at Imperial, which is a top uni on par with Oxbridge. It's in London so I have no concerns on that front. We wouldn't have considered something like Exeter or the ones with bad reputations for racism, but I would encourage black students not to be put off by Oxbridge. They are doing a lot of work to encourage black students.

Look up Target Oxbridge, which is an excellent initiative working with Oxbridge to encourage black students to consider Oxbridge.

I've just searched for ethnicity statistics at Imperial and the most recent I could find was 3% black or black mixed, which is low, but only 42% white.

@TheHouseILiveIn That’s great about your dc and Imperial is obviously excellent. I think it being in a diverse town also dilutes the black student experience a bit. I certainly wouldn’t be worried about a black dc going to any of the top universities in London.

I think it being in a diverse town also dilutes the black student experience a bit.

Maybe a little, but they're still going to be in a very small minority among their peers. This may be challenging for DC that aren't from London and so don't already have a support network there. But this isn't a reason not to apply, and if people keep not applying then the situation will never change.

Black students at top universities in the U.K will always be a minority but that shouldn’t be too much of a problem as long as people do not take against them out of prejudice and make their lives miserable and if they find it tough being a minority in London then it doesn’t bode well for top universities outside London of which there are many that black students should and must avail themselves of. Exeter has a lot to do to improve diversity but I wonder wether the tide has started to change a bit? Hoping others will come on to share more recent experiences of good universities are becoming more receptive.

Well if London unis aren't allowed in this discussion, mine applied to Oxford, Warwick and Manchester if that helps. You probably think Manchester is probably similar to London, though, so I'm guessing doesn't count.

That’s very helpful and you are right. In a way, the likes of London, Manchester, perhaps Brum are the typical places black kids would apply to if targeting top universities. Unis like Exeter, Durham, York, Warwick, Hull, Lancaster, I’m sure there are others etc I’m not sure how often black students apply there and what their experiences of those universities are.

Having worked in a handful of universities over 6/7 years now, I honestly think that diversity isn't the issue. Its the (sometimes blatant) institution racism that manifests in so many areas id University life. One of them being the awarding gap (some refer ti this as the attainment gap). Black students who attend the so-called elite institutions often graduate with lower class degrees than their counterparts, despite arriving on the same if not better grades. Something needs to change. Some universities are more committed to this than others. My point is that the issue is not simply about Black students getting in to the top institutions but how they are treated when they are there. Many young people nowadays are putting their mental health first and would rather go to X where they feel safe and there is no awarding gap, than attend Y, an elite institution but no clue about the policies and structures that they have in place that specifically affect Black students, instead would rather shout about diversity this and diversity that.

@bfp2 You’ve articulated what I was trying to say in the OP much better before I went off on a tangent into ‘diversity’ which I was actually trying to avoid. The problem isn’t in getting in, or wether the university is diverse enough, it’s the prejudice they are likely to encounter once they enter. Things like attainment that you mentioned that wouldn’t be obvious to an outsider. I wanted to know wether this is changing with the ‘elite’ universities in particular and what people’s experiences have been.

The problem isn’t in getting in, or wether the university is diverse enough, it’s the prejudice they are likely to encounter once they enter.

Tbh it's both problems: getting in for a start, and then as PP said something somewhere, most likely institutional racism, is letting them down once they do get in.

It's sad that I'm the only black Mumsnetter with a university child that has replied to your post. I'm hoping more people reply. @bfp2 did, but I'm guessing they are in education.

I hope black Mumsnetters grows quicker and we can have interesting conversations

Yes I know, a bit disappointing but hopefully it will grow so we can have more robust conversations. I know I’m not the only one who this subject weighs heavily on their mind. I’m still hoping others will come on to their ‘positive’ experiences at elite universities. Thanks for your contributions @TheHouseILiveIn. & @bfp2.

Hi there,

I don't have uni aged children, far format unless they turn out to be genius, and I don't see the signs yet!!!

I went to one of the top unis you've mentioned black kids don't want to go to. I went because everyone else wanted me to, I didn't want to go, not because of racism, I expect that everywhere and actually my friend had lots of racism in the English undergrad at Manchester, particularly the old English and norse type papers - seems most black students opted for other papers, so I think even the papers one picks matter in that regard. But anyway, I wanted to add that one of the reasons I didn't ant to go was lack of black guys! I won't lie. I thought 3 years of very slim pickings was almost insufferable. I wanted to go somewhere I would be attracted to young guys and they would be attracted to me. Exeter would NEVER have crossed my mind - NO WAY!

from it, not format...

@Jamdown123 thanks for being so refreshingly honest, lol! That really made me laugh (the bit of guys) but its an honest reality. Who wants to go to university where there’s no prospect of romance for the next 3yrs, spending the whole time being a bystander while everybody else is having fun? That alone can damage a young person’s self esteem.

I used to wonder what is the point nowadays of the American black universities e,g Howard and Spelman but I can see many reasons why black people still flock to them instead of the more mainstream universites. Apart from the absence of prejudice in academics, they have cute boys and girls on the tap so it’s actually a fun place to where they network and form strong friendships for live. If we had top black universities in the U.K the likes of the aforementioned (I know some will be pearl clutching that it’s segregation) then perhaps it would have mitigated against the elite white uni problem.

I don't have university age children.

I do have university aged nieces and nephews - well I come from a large family.

We tend to apply to universities for both undergraduate and postgraduate in cities/large towns but not the likes of Exeter and Durham. Some cities/large towns have more than one university so you get to mix with students at the other institutions which widens your dating pool.

Red That cuts out some very good universities but I do see the advantage in only applying to big cities as well noting the ‘more than one uni’ town idea for socialising. It does seem from responses so far that black dc are confined to a particular group of universities regardless of how highly or low they rank for their subject? Which is a huge shame. It’s a travesty that instead of looking at how strong a university is in their subject, they have to (through no fault of their own) be looking at size of the uni town etc etc. In short they’re not really going to the best universities available, they are having to dumb down to some extent.

@GreenLeafs actually they don't feel like they missed out as there are plenty of high ranking universities for the subjects they chose that are in cities/large towns with diverse populations/more than one uni.

Added to that some of my nephews and nieces have medical conditions.

They were advised by doctors, in the family and family friends, to choose universities in places that had a teaching hospital that was use to treating their condition. (This has been mentioned on previous threads on BMN.) So there is no point going to Durham or Exeter than having a medical emergency where hospital doctors don't know how to treat you. Even in London medical staff including GPs are often ignorant of medical conditions that affect black and black mixed people but at least if one is ignorant you can find easily another one who isn't.

The city universities are always best - have a welcoming and diverse city, non-campus uni, and then it doesn’t matter as much if courses or lecturers are largely white as very little time is spent in the university.

KCL is more diverse than UCL. Imperial is good. Manchester and Glasgow also. Queen Mary’s too.

Isn't London uni collegiate (KCL UCL, Imperial, LSE etc)? As such, are there lots of intercollegiate things going on? If so, even better.

I'm wondering what makes OP feel students are restricted if not choosing certain unis? Are ether really great departments for certain subjects at Exeter /Durham? It's a good decision to eschew racist unis IMO. There's enough of that. I think it's different for post grad, but bachelors is so personality shaping for many people, it's. same to develop in a hostile and racist environment. I did, it was awful. Worst 3 years of my life. I'm now 40 and I don't even put my undergrad on my CV. Most of my friends with post grad don't either....

• a shame -

Isn't London uni collegiate (KCL UCL, Imperial, LSE etc)? As such, are there lots of intercollegiate things going on? If so, even better.

From the people I know who went to them of different ages and from some of the sports I did in the past - Nope. In addition some of the colleges are not part of the University of London.

However socially they mixed with students with the same interests but that's because they were students living in the same area of London.

Isn't London uni collegiate (KCL UCL, Imperial, LSE etc)? As such, are there lots of intercollegiate things going on? If so, even better.

If you were paying £9K a year you would try to ensure you didn't have to endure a racist and/or classist environment to get a degree.

but bachelors is so personality shaping for many people, it's. same to develop in a hostile and racist environment. I did, it was awful. Worst 3 years of my life. I'm now 40 and I don't even put my undergrad on my CV. Most of my friends with post grad don't either....

Not sure why I quoted the wrong bit.

If you were paying £9K a year you would try to ensure you didn't have to endure a racist and/or classist environment to get a degree.