Using 'woke' as an insult

[PhilSwagielka]

First off, I should probably disclose that I'm white myself and I apologise if I come across as cack-handed.

Generally, I lurk this forum, but there is something that's come up in the White Feminism thread that bothers me a lot about Mumsnet, and I'm glad BMN posters have mentioned it, because it really annoys me. And that's Mumsnet posters using the word 'woke' as an insult.

Just now, there's a thread about a crying little girl at the England v Germany game and horrible men on Twitter calling her a slut, a Nazi and so on. One poster took it as an opportunity to claim that it was 'woke' people, ad I quote: "And these are the same people who are oh-so-woke, and attack people like JK Rowling for naff-all, and call Brexiters, thick racist gammon. Hilariously disingenuous. Typical of some of the people on Twitter."

Leaving aside the fact that, in my experience, it tends to be right-wing fans who do this sort of shit, I don't even get the logic here, other than it's just an excuse to complain about 'wokeness'. I don't even know what 'woke' means on Mumsnet any more. According to various posters, it means being angry and intolerant and not listening politely in debates; not voting Conservative; believing that trans women are women; not liking JK Rowling; being angry about racism; supporting Black Lives Matter and taking the knee. I don't think there's a consensus on what 'woke' is, other than that it's bad.

How do you all feel about 'woke' being used as an insult on here, just out of interest?

I think it’s fluid in its meaning these days. It’s generally used to mean anything you disagree with and that is on the spectrum of being inclusive.

It used to be a good thing. It meant that you were wise to the racism in society but now it’s used as an insult to slam virtue signalling.

Yes I think that the meaning has changed from being aware of the injustice of racism to something else now. I do feel as though it is used as an insult on MN too. It does not sit well with me, because I still think of it as being a good thing, to be aware of racism in society. It is like the word has been highjacked and turned into something ugly.

It actually really annoys me as the meaning has intentionally been stolen. Staying woke to racism has long been mocked and belittled and now it's being conflated with separate matters aswell as being a so called 'snowflake'.

I instantly get turned off from posts on MN when 'woke' is used as an insult, even if I partially agree with the general stance. Using that term as insult gives it a whole different tone.

@HumunaHey

It actually really annoys me as the meaning has intentionally been stolen. Staying woke to racism has long been mocked and belittled and now it's being conflated with separate matters aswell as being a so called 'snowflake'.

I instantly get turned off from posts on MN when 'woke' is used as an insult, even if I partially agree with the general stance. Using that term as insult gives it a whole different tone.

Me too. It's one reason I'm not in AIBU much these days, everything people don't like is 'woke'. It just makes me think of Piers Morgan and his rants about the 'virtue signalling woke brigade'.

What happened to make 'woke' turn into an insult used by white people?

I think like a lot of terms created by black people to describe a specific thing its been appropriated and turned into something else. For me I now see it as a kind of perfomative social media thing rather than something of any substance. For example middle class white men berating women who've escaped sexual exploitation by calling them SWERFS or accusing FGM activists of being exclusionary.

Its been reduced to a purity spiral completely removed from its original meaning.

Just another form of spiteful cultural appropriation, mocking civil & human rights/social justice issues that are rightly important to Black People.

Whenever I see the word/term used in the way it is on MN I just imagine a thicko who thinks s/he is clever as they've been clueing themselves up on buzzwords as per the odious Piers Morgan and Daily Heil.

They bandwagon any issue into "wokeness" - (supposed) cancel culture, Trans, etc. Silly. I bet they don't even use the W word in real life as they know they'd sound as stupid as they are. So they save it for online.

It's another form of silencing a group of people by making a descriptive word with an important meant redundant.

Yep, it's used as an insult. Even ass hats on Bumble are now saying "No woke people, please" in their bio.

Being anti-racist is now a form of Nazism. People taking the knee have been compared to nazi's

Currently, standing up to racism, or any other unjust bias, is seen as offensive, and words/phrases, such as: PC Gorn (sic) Mad, Woke, Snowflake, are in abundance.

It's almost as if being subjected to 'wokeness' is worse than being subjected to racism.

Although, if you speak to LF, he'll have you believe it is.

It's just another way to ridicule/downplay important social issues and to put those, that they deem less important, firmly 'back' in their place.

What happened to make 'woke' turn into an insult used by white people?

It was appropriated to describe the concerns of white people determined to make victims of themselves as ‘allies’ and in the Trans discussion. The fault isn’t all with the Team Piers Morgan, I don’t think.

As a term of American origin it perhaps was never destined to survive here with its original meaning.

Alongside White Privilege which is widely misunderstood here, albeit often wilfully.

I can’t bear any kind of dismissing people en masse, including the word ‘brigade’ on MN.

@1Saymynamesaymyname

Yep, it's used as an insult. Even ass hats on Bumble are now saying "No woke people, please" in their bio.

Being anti-racist is now a form of Nazism. People taking the knee have been compared to nazi's

Currently, standing up to racism, or any other unjust bias, is seen as offensive, and words/phrases, such as: PC Gorn (sic) Mad, Woke, Snowflake, are in abundance.

It's almost as if being subjected to 'wokeness' is worse than being subjected to racism.

Although, if you speak to LF, he'll have you believe it is.

It's just another way to ridicule/downplay important social issues and to put those, that they deem less important, firmly 'back' in their place.

Which is something I don't get at all because the people slagging them for it are closer to the far right than the actual players. It's nice that Boris and co have decided they like the England team after weeks of moaning about them taking the knee, though.

Piers Morgan seems to think that 'wokeness' is the worst thing to come out of COVID and not, say, the exploitation of workers or the poor treatment of healthcare staff. The absolute ghoul.

Thanks for your comments, everyone.

I'm a regular on FWR and I don't like it. I'm aware of its origins and also I think it's so broad as to become meaningless, bit like "political correctness" was. It seems to be used to refer to supporters of any particular social/ idpol issue you happen to be against, although you may well agree on lots of other "politically aware" issues.

Perhaps it's particularly irksome on MN because we should know better, but using 'woke' in this way is a mainstream phenomenon now, not an MN thing. And it's not good.

There's a piece in the Times today, for instance, headlined '‘Woke’ culture war is biggest dividing line among voters'

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0cb40be8-dd03-11eb-ab4e-c25eb6444929?shareToken=50e3b3ed374fb7ee71c569763cfd4d9d

Anti racist doesn't mean what it used to mean though. It used to mean being against racism, now it's about promoting critical race theory and this translates badly in many UK contexts.

If they can call me Karen, I can call them woke. We're both using a term that started as one thing and has now completely got away from its original meaning.

See also "language evolves" in the trans debate.

It's honestly no different to "gammon" etc. Both sides can be very annoying tbqh

Not really.

And I don't know any black person who uses 'gammon'. Only seen and heard white people use it.

I've never seen any black people use 'gammon' either.

Karen is another term that got out of hand - it originally meant a certain type of white woman, often middle-class and middle-aged, who would use her status to treat service staff like shit and/or get black people into trouble for innocuous things like having a barbecue. Now it seems to mean any woman who complains about anything, no matter how legit.

And yes, I've seen 'woke' used a lot by right-wing newspapers. Everything they don't like is 'woke' now.

@MorrisZapp

Anti racist doesn't mean what it used to mean though. It used to mean being against racism, now it's about promoting critical race theory and this translates badly in many UK contexts.

If they can call me Karen, I can call them woke. We're both using a term that started as one thing and has now completely got away from its original meaning.

See also "language evolves" in the trans debate.

Who says being anti-racist doesn't mean being against racism?

@liloandstench

It's honestly no different to "gammon" etc. Both sides can be very annoying tbqh

The word "gammon" as a slang term has not been appropriated though has it? So it's not the same at all.

The term "Karen" has and that's why it's become increasingly problematic. It used to solely mean a racist, entitled white woman who weaponises the fact that she is white and female. Now anybody will also use the word against (mostly) white, outspoken woman in a bid to silence them. However, like "Gammon" the new wider, conflated meaning is generally used by white people, usually men or both sexes of the younger generation. Not just a case of both sides being annoying at all.

That Priti Patel thread in AIBU is a case in point.

Speaking of which, it is galling how Patel has such passionate defenders while Dianne Abbott gets torn apart on here.

This came up in my performance review today. I was told that I might want to “reign in my wokeness”. It was not a compliment.

@MorrisZapp

Anti racist doesn't mean what it used to mean though. It used to mean being against racism, now it's about promoting critical race theory and this translates badly in many UK contexts.

If they can call me Karen, I can call them woke. We're both using a term that started as one thing and has now completely got away from its original meaning.

See also "language evolves" in the trans debate.

Come again?! What critical race theories are you referring to and how are they not anti racist. Critical race theories has brought insight, clarity, context and vocabulary to support and further discussions on racism. They are unpopular (hence the “apply poorly to the uk”)as terms such as white privilege and white supremacy make white people feel bad and hurt their feelings.

@Lndnmummy

This came up in my performance review today. I was told that I might want to “reign in my wokeness”. It was not a compliment.

What a shitty place to work that people feel so emboldened to say that in a professional setting.

@Lndnmummy

This came up in my performance review today. I was told that I might want to “reign in my wokeness”. It was not a compliment.

What do they mean reign in your "wokeness", what kind of shitty management is that?

I would insist that they put that in writing with examples of my "wokeness", then put in a harrasment grievance via HR.

The last time I checked, being "woke" was promoting equality, diversity and treating people with dignity & respect. The fact that your manager has twisted your positive behaviour, into something negative requires scrutiny by his/her manager imo.

@MorrisZapp

Anti racist doesn't mean what it used to mean though. It used to mean being against racism, now it's about promoting critical race theory and this translates badly in many UK contexts.

If they can call me Karen, I can call them woke. We're both using a term that started as one thing and has now completely got away from its original meaning.

See also "language evolves" in the trans debate.

Please tell me you're joking or trolling??

I have no idea what woke means anymore. I thought I was woke, but I don't fit the new improved version.

How do we keep up?