Using 'woke' as an insult

[PhilSwagielka]

First off, I should probably disclose that I'm white myself and I apologise if I come across as cack-handed.

Generally, I lurk this forum, but there is something that's come up in the White Feminism thread that bothers me a lot about Mumsnet, and I'm glad BMN posters have mentioned it, because it really annoys me. And that's Mumsnet posters using the word 'woke' as an insult.

Just now, there's a thread about a crying little girl at the England v Germany game and horrible men on Twitter calling her a slut, a Nazi and so on. One poster took it as an opportunity to claim that it was 'woke' people, ad I quote: "And these are the same people who are oh-so-woke, and attack people like JK Rowling for naff-all, and call Brexiters, thick racist gammon. Hilariously disingenuous. Typical of some of the people on Twitter."

Leaving aside the fact that, in my experience, it tends to be right-wing fans who do this sort of shit, I don't even get the logic here, other than it's just an excuse to complain about 'wokeness'. I don't even know what 'woke' means on Mumsnet any more. According to various posters, it means being angry and intolerant and not listening politely in debates; not voting Conservative; believing that trans women are women; not liking JK Rowling; being angry about racism; supporting Black Lives Matter and taking the knee. I don't think there's a consensus on what 'woke' is, other than that it's bad.

How do you all feel about 'woke' being used as an insult on here, just out of interest?

[EchoNan]

not advocating for my cause in the best way = "you are making us nervous by asking difficult questions about our employment practices"

Speak to your union, if you aren't in one, then join one.

Evidence everything. Take care of yourself, and your Woke Crown.

[Lndnmummy]

Been humming the below in my best hooligan voice all morning after yet another shitty meeting.

“Woke until I die, woke until I die. I know I am, I am sure I am, I’m woke until I die.”

[Lndnmummy]

My woke crown. Not whole. But actually, I’ll continue to wear my whole woke crown with pride.

[Lndnmummy]

Yea it’s bullshit. And I know why. I never had any performance issues until I started to ask for transparency around promotion figures. Mine as well as others. Now they are coming thick and fast. I’m being “difficult”, “emotional”, and “not advocating for my cause in the best way. I’m being divisive. It’s bullshit and I will continue to wear my whole crown with great pride. They have seen nothing yet.

[RedMarauder]

@Lndnmummy my white DP became a trade union rep because of shit like that at work.

He still hears shit from management but knows unlike his black and brown colleagues if management take it too far - some of them forget he has a child of colour - he can escalate without fear of losing his job.

[Quaggars]

If they can call me Karen I can call them woke
Were you never taught the phrase two wrongs don't make a right?

[Quaggars]

I agree OP and don't like how it is seen as a bad thing to be woke - I mean how is it a bad thing to care about racism and also other issues?
If I'm woke for caring then so be it, I see it as a good thing to be woke rather than bad.

[EchoNan]

@Lndnmummy

This came up in my performance review today. I was told that I might want to “reign in my wokeness”. It was not a compliment.

Are you in a trade union? If so, raise it with them, this is not acceptable.

That's not a supportive performance review comment, it's a goady sneer aimed at the mother of children of colour.

I'd be asking for the performance reviewer to give examples, in writing, of what he or she means by "reigning in your wokeness" too.
Make sure there is a paper trail ( so's to speak) of all this, and you can evidence what has been said.

Do you have a 360 degree feedback on performance?

"Performance reviewer", needs a performance review. Because they aren't fit for purpose if they conduct reviews like that. KMT.

[chickenyhead]

I have no idea what woke means anymore. I thought I was woke, but I don't fit the new improved version.

How do we keep up?

[NurseButtercup]

@MorrisZapp

Anti racist doesn't mean what it used to mean though. It used to mean being against racism, now it's about promoting critical race theory and this translates badly in many UK contexts.

If they can call me Karen, I can call them woke. We're both using a term that started as one thing and has now completely got away from its original meaning.

See also "language evolves" in the trans debate.

Please tell me you're joking or trolling??

[NurseButtercup]

@Lndnmummy

This came up in my performance review today. I was told that I might want to “reign in my wokeness”. It was not a compliment.

What do they mean reign in your "wokeness", what kind of shitty management is that?

I would insist that they put that in writing with examples of my "wokeness", then put in a harrasment grievance via HR.

The last time I checked, being "woke" was promoting equality, diversity and treating people with dignity & respect. The fact that your manager has twisted your positive behaviour, into something negative requires scrutiny by his/her manager imo.

[HumunaHey]

@Lndnmummy

This came up in my performance review today. I was told that I might want to “reign in my wokeness”. It was not a compliment.

What a shitty place to work that people feel so emboldened to say that in a professional setting.

[Lndnmummy]

@MorrisZapp

Anti racist doesn't mean what it used to mean though. It used to mean being against racism, now it's about promoting critical race theory and this translates badly in many UK contexts.

If they can call me Karen, I can call them woke. We're both using a term that started as one thing and has now completely got away from its original meaning.

See also "language evolves" in the trans debate.

Come again?! What critical race theories are you referring to and how are they not anti racist. Critical race theories has brought insight, clarity, context and vocabulary to support and further discussions on racism. They are unpopular (hence the “apply poorly to the uk”)as terms such as white privilege and white supremacy make white people feel bad and hurt their feelings.

[Lndnmummy]

This came up in my performance review today. I was told that I might want to “reign in my wokeness”. It was not a compliment.

[PhilSwagielka]

That Priti Patel thread in AIBU is a case in point.

Speaking of which, it is galling how Patel has such passionate defenders while Dianne Abbott gets torn apart on here.

[HumunaHey]

@liloandstench

It's honestly no different to "gammon" etc. Both sides can be very annoying tbqh

The word "gammon" as a slang term has not been appropriated though has it? So it's not the same at all.

The term "Karen" has and that's why it's become increasingly problematic. It used to solely mean a racist, entitled white woman who weaponises the fact that she is white and female. Now anybody will also use the word against (mostly) white, outspoken woman in a bid to silence them. However, like "Gammon" the new wider, conflated meaning is generally used by white people, usually men or both sexes of the younger generation. Not just a case of both sides being annoying at all.

[PhilSwagielka]

@MorrisZapp

Anti racist doesn't mean what it used to mean though. It used to mean being against racism, now it's about promoting critical race theory and this translates badly in many UK contexts.

If they can call me Karen, I can call them woke. We're both using a term that started as one thing and has now completely got away from its original meaning.

See also "language evolves" in the trans debate.

Who says being anti-racist doesn't mean being against racism?

[PhilSwagielka]

I've never seen any black people use 'gammon' either.

Karen is another term that got out of hand - it originally meant a certain type of white woman, often middle-class and middle-aged, who would use her status to treat service staff like shit and/or get black people into trouble for innocuous things like having a barbecue. Now it seems to mean any woman who complains about anything, no matter how legit.

And yes, I've seen 'woke' used a lot by right-wing newspapers. Everything they don't like is 'woke' now.

[Perfectlyadjusted]

Not really.

And I don't know any black person who uses 'gammon'. Only seen and heard white people use it.

[liloandstench]

It's honestly no different to "gammon" etc. Both sides can be very annoying tbqh

[MorrisZapp]

Anti racist doesn't mean what it used to mean though. It used to mean being against racism, now it's about promoting critical race theory and this translates badly in many UK contexts.

If they can call me Karen, I can call them woke. We're both using a term that started as one thing and has now completely got away from its original meaning.

See also "language evolves" in the trans debate.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Perhaps it's particularly irksome on MN because we should know better, but using 'woke' in this way is a mainstream phenomenon now, not an MN thing. And it's not good.

There's a piece in the Times today, for instance, headlined '‘Woke’ culture war is biggest dividing line among voters'

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0cb40be8-dd03-11eb-ab4e-c25eb6444929?shareToken=50e3b3ed374fb7ee71c569763cfd4d9d

[CardinalLolzy]

I'm a regular on FWR and I don't like it. I'm aware of its origins and also I think it's so broad as to become meaningless, bit like "political correctness" was. It seems to be used to refer to supporters of any particular social/ idpol issue you happen to be against, although you may well agree on lots of other "politically aware" issues.

[PhilSwagielka]

@1Saymynamesaymyname

Yep, it's used as an insult. Even ass hats on Bumble are now saying "No woke people, please" in their bio.

Being anti-racist is now a form of Nazism. People taking the knee have been compared to nazi's

Currently, standing up to racism, or any other unjust bias, is seen as offensive, and words/phrases, such as: PC Gorn (sic) Mad, Woke, Snowflake, are in abundance.

It's almost as if being subjected to 'wokeness' is worse than being subjected to racism.

Although, if you speak to LF, he'll have you believe it is.

It's just another way to ridicule/downplay important social issues and to put those, that they deem less important, firmly 'back' in their place.

Which is something I don't get at all because the people slagging them for it are closer to the far right than the actual players. It's nice that Boris and co have decided they like the England team after weeks of moaning about them taking the knee, though.

Piers Morgan seems to think that 'wokeness' is the worst thing to come out of COVID and not, say, the exploitation of workers or the poor treatment of healthcare staff. The absolute ghoul.

Thanks for your comments, everyone.

[MarianneUnfaithful]

What happened to make 'woke' turn into an insult used by white people?

It was appropriated to describe the concerns of white people determined to make victims of themselves as ‘allies’ and in the Trans discussion. The fault isn’t all with the Team Piers Morgan, I don’t think.

As a term of American origin it perhaps was never destined to survive here with its original meaning.

Alongside White Privilege which is widely misunderstood here, albeit often wilfully.

I can’t bear any kind of dismissing people en masse, including the word ‘brigade’ on MN.