I'm black but AVOID race topics at all costs. Anyone else the same?

[Dojasayso]

NC for this one as its probably controversial.

I'm a black woman who grew up in the white middle class countryside.

Growing up my friends were all white, my childhood sweethearts and even a lot of my immediate family such as stepdad etc.
I went to uni in a way more diverse city though.

Now as an adult, I have a professional career where my colleagues are 90% white, my partner is white and so are 95% of my friends.

I find my life to be so racially opposing on both sides that I hate race topics altogether. It really affects my mental health.

If the subject of race comes up such as BLM, meg and Harry etc. I just try and change the subject or give vague replies. My reasons for this are:

1. White people will never truly understand. So I find myself explaining and educating which is SO SO draining and I get frustrated and upset by the ignorance and denial.

1. I've seen people I love and respect say unintentionally ignorant things in discussion then get defensive when pulled up on causing tension. I've then never viewed them the same affecting my relationships with them in the future.

1. I end up somehow becoming the spokesperson for all black people instead of my views just being MY views, I don't want them taken as gospel and the view of ALL black people.

Then I also avoid race topics with other black people. You think it'd be therapeutic for me to speak to those who understand. But more often than not the opposite is true. My reasons for this is:

1. Due to my upbringing not many other black people have the same background as me so cannot relate. I feel culturally very different.

1. A lot of other black peoples inner circle is mainly black and not white people. So they of course work with and see white people daily at work and whatever, but don't have the intimate relationships with white people I do.

So I actually get offended by some sweeping generalisations made about white people when discussing race topics.

1. Black people are not a monolith. We are not a hive mind. Yet I find other people within my own race seemingly thinking we do which goes against the very racism we try to fight. I've been called 'oreo' and other terrible names by other black people. Because I like the opera, go to the horse races for ladies day, attend the odd golf tournament and love me some nickleback and dolly parton! It upsets me greatly because I want us to be seen as individuals nor stereotypes. I find that the 'white things' i enjoy are actually associated with the middle/upper class. Why do we mock each other for doing anything outside of our stereotyped box? Surely we should be pushing others of our race to expand our knowledge and experiences. It doesn't mean your not proud of your blackness. You just may also enjoy dancing to dolly patron whilst you get ready in the mornings or attending the odd rock gig.

1. Colourism and dysfunction. When previously dating, I only ever experienced Colourism when dating black men. When dating white men, I was black but that was that. I actually felt most conscious of my 4A hair type and dark skin when dating black men. My white exs and current partner have given me nothing but compliments. Its a non-issue.

Yet other black people seem to have a lot to say about black women dating out. Also in the black community dysfunction is completely ignored so long as there's 'black love' Also sexism and homophobia in the black community is rife. Its like stepping back in time. This goes against my personal values and ethics.

There are many other reasons why I avoid race discussions but those are the main points I think.

I've recently come to the realisation that every time I do enter any type of race discussion with either black or white people, I come away feeling drained and disheartened. It actually does affect my mental health.

I feel like I can't escape these discussions though. Its everywhere!! I wish I could just opt out but I can't. I can't sit back and listen to ignorant comments. But I haven't the mental energy to have the discussions either.

Does anyone else feel like me? I feel very alone. Like an outsider looking in to both sides of the coin.

Wow OP. So many points have been raised here. As long as you are happy that’s what matters. To be honest your life isn’t the majority of black so you can’t expect them to understand if they have never had experience growing up in the Country side.

I do agree though that within the black community there’s certain “black expectations” expected of you to almost fit in the stereotypical of “being black”.

When you said white peoples won't truly understand this is why some people would prefer to stick to what they know and mix with their own... which can lead to ignorance.

I understand you OP. It’s a lot and it really is draining. I can relate to aspects of what you said. Do what you need to do to look after your mental health, but in those moments where you have the energy, make sure you stand up for what you believe in, even if people don’t want to hear it. You’re in a powerful position to be able to educate both white and black people, so do that. I’m not sure if you have kids or intend to have them one day, but it will be important they see you doing this.

Wish I'd seen this thread 5 minutes ago for a personal reason but yes OP, I feel the same and have experienced similar among Black people.

However, our background is different. I grew up around mostly black people in a black majority country and my experience of black people is what I believe to be the experience of white people in a white majority country.

Having lived in the UK for many years, I still find it sad but no longer shocking that for both white and black people here, when they talk about black people, it's usually synonymous with poverty or crime or underprivilege/disadvantage. This isn't my experience but I understand why. Having lived as a black person in a white majority country for 12+ years, I'm beginning to feel what I can imagine a lot of black people feel in this country and you know what? I don't like this feeling but it has helped me understand what many black people who've lived here all their lives must feel. "No wonder?" I tell myself. Now I get it.

However, while I want the lessons to remain because it's helped me to shake off the "trust a white person above everyone else" mindset I've carried around subconsciously, I don't want that toxic feeling to fester - it not good for me or my mental health. So, yes I steer clear of race topics 90% of time online but sometimes curiosity gets the best of me.

In real life, I steer well clear because I won't be able to dip in and out like I can online. Thankfully, when I'm with people from my place of origin, race topics are rarely brought up. 99% of the time, we talk about everything else under the sun just like you'll find among a group of white people for whom race isn't exactly an issue.

It does make me feel sad for Black people in white majority countries (not in a pitying or patronising sort of way but I understand), it can be difficult to escape this since it's their main issue. Every place has their issues. In my place of origin, the main issue is economic privilege - rich, middle or poor and the poor suffer the most, obviously. So you'll find many people, especially those it affects, can't escape such topics there. I think it's the same thing with race here.

Thanks both.

@May17th yes I think my experiences being so unique stops me from being able to full enter black spaces.
I've been called a sell out and all sorts. When I ask why there usually isn't a tangible answer. Mainly because I don't subscribe to the typical notions of blackness I suppose.
Its strange because I actually love my deep chocolate complexion and kinky hair. I rock a fro all the time and love learning about black history. I have no shame in my blackness. Yet I feel like an outsider amongst my own people. The polarisation is crazy.

@MoiJeJous me and my dp have already said that if we have kids they will go to a ethnically diverse school. They will not be the only child of colour in the class. Thats very important to me and something I feel has contributed to my experiences of feeling like an outsider.

I get you @op 100%.

I'm cooking dinner whilst holding a baby on my arm so I can't fully write to express my sentiment on the mental exhaustion that there is living between the two worlds, as I:

Went to a top girls' private school;
Went on to imperial to do my PhD in engineering;
Went to the French equivalent of Imperial;
Speak fluent French;
Speak fluent German;
Play a wind instrument and love classical music 💋
Have always and only lived in middle class areas & now am one of 2 black women in my village;
Have properties in more than one Eu country;
DH is one level below top management & all circle from his side is older white and homogeneous;
Siblings include a doctor and a banker;
Am fed up with being told my D.C. have "white" names by black people and being told by white people that black middle classes don't exist

🤛🏿 bump you in everything

@WellIsntThisA I have the exact same background as you. I remember talking to a black friend of mine born in the UK and telling her that blackness was about no4 in the list of things that defined my identity and she was shocked and took it badly initially. I tried to explain to her that it’s because I wasn’t a minority during my formative years.

@Dojasayso fist bump from me too.

@WellIsntThisA “when they talk about black people, it's usually synonymous with poverty or crime or underprivilege/disadvantage” This resonated with me. I feel like some white people expect you to have be the expert on this topic when I have no experience of it at all and they seem surprised. I can empathise, but don’t really know what it feels like to be poor any more than they would do.

OP I get where you’re coming from. I have a very similar background to you, grew up in a predominantly white, MC area etc. Believe me you’re not that unusual. There are many of us out there, despite the media’s portrayal . When I was younger, I had comments about how I spoke from both white and black people. One queried why I didn’t speak with a South London dialect, ignoring the fact that I actually grew up in the North.
As I got older I’ve been more confident in having the race conversation, with anyone, more so within the last 10 years or so. However if it’s causing you stress, do what’s best for you. As you said you are not the spokesperson for all black people and no one should be put in that position.

I agree with both @plinkyplonkyploo and @User26272829

I didn’t move here until I was an adult and grew up in Africa where we were all majority black and like a PP said race wasn’t a thing but now that I live here and have kids my heart goes out to the black people who have lived here all their lives. Race is insidious here and just hangs like a thick smoke in the air.

Having said that, being not conscious of race got me into trouble at work as the white people in senior positions didn’t have a box to place me in cos I was clearly not playing to the oppressed blacks person stereotype and refused to suck up to them cos we just don’t do that in the African country I grew up in. Someone actually said to me that I strut around like I own the place

I've learned that if you're from a "third world" country, it's a sign of arrogance (to both some white and unfortunately some black people who've been here all their lives) to speak confidently/be confident or oblivious to the racial hierarchy and division, which means you easily float in and out of white and black spaces with no self-consciousness about your race.

@WellIsntThisA

I've learned that if you're from a "third world" country, it's a sign of arrogance (to both some white and unfortunately some black people who've been here all their lives) to speak confidently/be confident or oblivious to the racial hierarchy and division, which means you easily float in and out of white and black spaces with no self-consciousness about your race.

This 💯💯💯

OP, I think your experience is about class and background. I see your frustration and understand why you avoid race discussions. Plenty of people get slated for not conforming to the stereotype of their ‘class’.

OP there are many more black around with similar interests to you than you think otherwise there wouldn't be black opera singers, golfers and musicians of all genres wouldn't do collaborations with black artists. Last time I went to the Royal Opera house in a group of about 25 there were 4 other black people as well as me.

In grew up in a diverse area so race conversations have never been foreign to me particularly as some of the people I know/knew parents were from South Africa.

What does surprise me is the number of black people, particularly young ones, who are unaware of things like black people's involvement in the World Wars and their treatment afterwards. However I've always had non-white teachers and from age 8 that included black teachers. I also come from a family that is politically aware due to what extended family members have done. This in turn led to discussions on people's heritage.

I choose which white people I have race discussions with. So some people I shut down quickly because as far as I'm concerned they should know British history isn't just about white people, and if I work with them then they are educated enough to do their own research. Others I don't because they weren't brought up and educated in the UK.

Am fed up with being told my D.C. have "white" names by black people
Don't know what black people you mix with but it is a presumption in my circles that black children who don't have names from their parents heritage will have traditional "white" names.

and being told by white people that black middle classes don't exist
You just mix with completely ignorant people.

@Dojasayso in the 70s & 80's country music was huge in the Black British Caribbean community. Dolly, Dr Hook etc along side most other genres of music, apart from maybe trash metal which wasn't really a thing until 1990s. Pegasus Opera was set up by a Black man and the performers are Black and non Black people of colour, performing in all the major opera houses etc.

I am sorry you felt othered.

Thank you for all your responses

Very interesting to hear about being brought up in a black majority country. I've always wondered what that would be like.

It would be nice to not have to walk into a room full of white faces and instead black faces so your just seen as another person and not a "black person". Just another individual with their own unique character, experiences and personality.

@Soma surely names being from heritage is to do with culture and not race?
If you were born and grew up in the UK as were your parents, why would it be a surprise your children have British names? If anything wouldn't be a bit random for your child to a traditional Nigerian/carribean/Congolese name if your not from there?

White people may have a grand parent or great grandparent from Russia, but they wouldn't be expected to give their child a Russian name?

I don't see names as racial but more cultural?

Thats why it's not so much about class for me but race instead. Black people in the UK seem to have a standard of blackness we must pertain to be in order to be seen as black and not an 'oreo' or whatever. When actually we are not a monolith with a hive mind. We individual people, we shouldn't have any type of racial expectation imo.

You're not unique, OP! (Though I'm sorry if you've been plagued with unwelcome conversations. It is unfortunately necessary to really limit one's interactions, where possible, to pre-selected people, and to be on one's guard everywhere else.)

I do really like what anewdispensation has said. It's true.

@Dojasayso , I think you mixed me up with another poster, I didn't mention names.

Totally get you, OP! As others have said we are not as unique as some would have us believe!

I’ve always been confident in my race, interests etc, but I would say that as I have grown older (mid 30s now) I’ve really come into myself and owned my true self - whatever that is. I will not allow anyone to try and dictate or define by any level of ‘blackness’ or ‘whiteness’.

@RedMarauder

Am fed up with being told my D.C. have "white" names by black people Don't know what black people you mix with but it is a presumption in my circles that black children who don't have names from their parents heritage will have traditional "white" names.

and being told by white people that black middle classes don't exist
You just mix with completely ignorant people.

Have to agree on that last point- anyone of this mindset is totally ignorant and irredeemable!

Discussions on race are so draining and I genuinely feel that it’s up to every POC how much they choose to engage in these discussions. I have a few black and friends of colour who like you prefer to avoid them.

I wasn’t born here but I feel lucky to have grown up in London and between London and Uni have amassed a very diverse and international group of friends. I’ve been called every derivative of ‘coconut’ under the sun and in the same way that I don’t socialise with white people who are defensive when confronted about ignorant views, I don’t socialise with black people who expect me to behave in a certain way. There are lots of black people who share your interests, values and have experienced the ‘Oreo’ backlash.

@Soma is right, I know so many Jamaicans who love country and in the last 5 years I have not been to a performing arts performance where there wasn’t a black performer and black audience members.

I get you OP. This is a really interesting discussion.

I had a very middle class upbringing - private school 100s of miles from London, very few black kids there and none in my year. I'm mixed but with 2 mixed parents and fairly dark skinned. So I feel black rather than mixed. My parents were big activists, I grew up with lots of black activist books in the house so I was very much aware of race issues. It took a long time to accept my blackness, especially growing up in the 90s when everyone wanted to be stick thin and I had a big bum and hips etc.

When I moved to London for uni I felt too white! I'm very shy and reserved and there's often an expectation for black people to be more outgoing. So I ended up making more white friends. But as I've started working, I gravitate to my few black colleagues and seek out black networks and find I can really relate to black people in my industry.

I wish we could be a bit more like the US where there seems to be more variation 'allowed' in the black experience - there's more of an established black middle class. It feels as though things are changing here - there are huge numbers of amazing professionals from Nigerian backgrounds for example, so maybe it will be different 10 years down the line.

Oh and BTW I love opera if anyone fancies a field trip after lockdown

Count me in for the opera! 😀

Second you @Pompomdahlia - very interesting discussion! Thank you OP for bringing this to the table!

@RedMarauder

Am fed up with being told my D.C. have "white" names by black people Don't know what black people you mix with but it is a presumption in my circles that black children who don't have names from their parents heritage will have traditional "white" names.

and being told by white people that black middle classes don't exist
You just mix with completely ignorant people.

It might be thought that I mix with ignorant people (colleagues etc?), but that is my experience and I'm voicing my experience. Ditto with the names not being thought of being 'black' names.