If you heard of a nice town/village where black people were moving to, would you join them?

[Sugarintheplum]

I'm just wondering.

I used to live in the US and they had black areas with good schools, attractive houses (like Fox Hills for eg), and we just don't really have that here.

If one emerged, would you be tempted?

100%. Living in the sticks is my dream but I just could be the 'only' in the village, or put my children through that.

I also think retiring in the city is such a sad thing for our elders. I hope that this becomes a reality over generations.

Absolutely. It is a shame that we don't have that over here. If there was a movement to start that here then I'd be up for it. I'm currently in Zone 2 London and my heart just sank today at the sight of all the crowds out for the first sun in ages - I'm craving more space and peace and quiet but I really don't want to be the only non-white face in the area. I adore the Cotswolds - I grew up near there and it's beautiful but I'd just be wary about moving there and putting my kids through the experience I had at school

I would. Also live in Zone 2. Dreaming of moving back to a Scottish village I once lived in but worried for DC so stuck here in London

I've never considered living away from London, and being in a diverse borough in particular, as I wouldn't want my DC to be "the only one in the village".

If there was a place in the UK where lots of Black people moved to, the DC's school would be diverse, and we could get our ethnic foods in a shop in a village at ordinary prices, I most definitely would.

Me too. In a heart beat.

I wish we could organise to do that. A mass move over say a decade. But you know what? That town would get wind of it and would resist! I've seen how whole towns turned against 'Eastern Europeans' on the run up to Brexit. I've also known white people to tell me that their neighbours implored them not to sell to any ethnic minority buyers when they were selling (and I know my sister was discriminated against when renting because we have proof - they told her it was gone once she went to look (V European sounding name). next day we called up and the agent said it was still on a few times).

It would also be very painful for the first few.

But I do wish.

I have and I did!

There are LOADS of new build estates popping up and they aren't black black but they are very cosmopolitan.

I would love to live in a mixed community where everyone just got on with their lives, irrespective of race, religion, the whole thing. I hate the idea of specifically defined neighbourhoods, which would likely cause more issues than they solve. I don’t know how we even begin to get a grip on the problems that face this country right now, but this surely can’t be it?

Which issues do you foresee?

You would have communities being targeted, and a very insular approach would quickly take root. Community segregation is an absolute no-go.

Tell me more about what you mean by insular approach?

It's a very different world to the one you grew up in. I grew up in the sticks back in the 80s/90s and I mean sticks. And we still had different ethnicities, me and my brother included. Don't let fear of unknown keep you from your dream, and don't let assumptions hold your kids back either. They could thrive but your prejudices are withholding that childhood from them.

There would be a very distinct ‘us and them’ culture - homogeneity is not always a good thing. What about people who don’t want to be classified this way? Also, you would need to have a far more equitable distribution of wealth and resources if you are going to have distinct communities, or ghettoisation will occur.

See, I had a bad experience just a couple of years ago when I went out for dinner at a country pub with my family when I was back home. And I had an incident with my mum in the supermarket visiting her, as well as people staring etc. Friends back home report that there is generally still a fair bit of casual racism compared to London. It's difficult not to be affected by that.

I don't see it as 'us and them', just feeling a bit more comfortable walking round a village or small town because people are used to seeing black people and so we don't get stared at or questioned. And certainly not for my kids to be the only non-white face in school, which is what happened to me and I'm still talking to my therapist about the fallout from 25 years ago.

As for communities being targeted - surely that happens already along demographic lines. For instance, middle class parents will decide that a certain bit of London is the place to be, buy up houses from elderly people and rip out all their decor and put bi-fold doors in the kitchen and create their own communities based on class and shared values.

@PompomDahlia it’s a hard situation isn’t it? I mentioned ‘us and them’ because the opening post talked of “black areas” and then that theme continued. I wish we had a fairer and more equitable country, and the includes the points made in your last paragraph.

Thank you for your contribution.

I am not advocating anything. Even if I were to advocate such a thing, it would be absolutely unrealistic and unachievable. White people would never allow it. Black people are hardly allowed black spaces, even in this section on posts where it's been specifically requested. We don't kid ourselves.

I happen to think black people coming together without non-black people can be a very positive thing for those black people who want to participate, and possibly for the rest of society who value healthy, happy black people who are not constantly battling racism.

If other people have a problem with it and therefore want to target black people who are living in close proximity that is, of course, their problem, and any racist course of action would be illegal. Black people can't forever act, behave and live so that other people are happy and will not target them. We are targeted wherever we live. Strength in numbers.

Many black people already feel they are living an 'us' and 'them' life.

I support any black person wanting to make positive moves towards black empowerment, even if that offends others.

I'm being really fair, and kind here. I could say more, but I'd just be restating what others have said on this forum tens of times since its inception less than 6 months ago. Sometimes we just want to have some light-hearted chat amongst ourselves without being blamed for life's woes.

We're talking about this because of our experiences of racism, we are not the cause of the problem.

I can't answer the question about people who would not want to be classified as black. I'm not sure how that is relevant to my question, unless every thought about black people must include consideration of people who do not identify as black.

I lived in SW London 15 years ago and had a white S African flatmate. She came home chuckling one day. Said she was on the tube and a white S African man who clearly had no idea of the area, maybe just came over, started slating a woman on the tube in Afrikaans. He was mortified by his gaffe when most of the carriage started giggling and twittering.

Is this community being targeted in SW London?

@Sugarintheplum you make some really valid points. I am white and I am not going to lie, I even felt uncomfortable quoting your comment about “black areas” as it instinctively feels wrong for me to say that. On that note, apologies if you feel that I have unreasonably waded into this specific area of the site, I thought you had posed an interesting discussion topic and didn’t even look at the sub-heading. I raised the point about classification as I am acutely aware that this is an absolute minefield right now, across every sector of society.

For what it’s worth, I absolutely DO NOT think you, or other black people are the cause of the problem.

It's all good, you can have your opinion.

I actually didn't live in a black area in the US. I lived in Santa Monica which was quite British! Ray Winstone propping up the bar at my local pub etc ;p

Slightly off topic, I would love live in the US, though God knows how it’s all going to pan out over there. I am desperately missing my annual trip and Bath and Bodyworks 🙂. I really really feel that threads like yours are so important though, I am keen to engage with addressing issues head on and it all starts with dialogue. I was raised in a racist household and even as a child I would try and and counter the points made by my mother, usually to my detriment and a slap, with an aside about “back chat”. I knew there and then I wasn’t going to perpetuate this situation as I grew up.

If I meant, finding a top quality hairdresser in an instant; schools and universities that didn't discrimination against Black people; hospitals that didn't have higher rates of Black women in childbirth; a huge Black owned supermarket that sold groceries from all of the world; access to Black American TV (and still keep the British ones, can't forget Michaela Coel etc); fair policing and lots of green spaces! I would be sold! 😆

In my ways, I see this being somewhat a reality for the Jewish community in parts of London. They even have their own ambulance service which I think is pretty cool! As for Black people, a lot of us are actually making this a reality outside of the UK, many people are moving to countries in Africa or the Caribbean.

In my opinion the "us and them" is already a reality, even though we don't live in officially segregated communities. Us and them is a essentially racism and it is bloody rife!.

I felt what you said about sometimes we just want to have light-hearted chats, we know this isn't going to happen in the UK (any time soon anyway) but this is a space specifically for Black people to discuss things that we want.

White country dweller here, I’m sorry you feel this way and have such bad experiences. I can’t deny the casual racism exists, I’m sure it does, there are some very poorly educated insular people in rural areas. All I wanted to say though is that there are plenty of white people who would welcome greater diversity in these areas and welcome you. I realise and understand that’s not enough, but I do hope over time things can change so our countryside areas can be more diverse.

The concept sounds great but I personally can't see it happening or being allowed to happen. I was brought up in East London and remembered when some black families tried to move out to Essex to access better schools etc. Some didn't make the move as there was a reluctance to sell properties to them. Those who did buy weren't really made welcome in the area. I don't know if this example was prevalent in other areas of the UK.

After moving away for university and gap-year stuff, I ended up settling down in Bristol. There are areas in Bristol with large Black communities where schools are diverse, and ethnic foods & good hairdressers aren't in short supply. But I also realise that Bristol is still a reasonable sized city, as opposed to a village 'in the sticks'.

OP - I'm assuming that by 'good schools' you were referring to state schools or were you also including public/private/grammar schools in the mix? Schools in Bristol are a bit hit-and-miss and the postcode/catchment area is prevalent but that's probably the case across the UK.

Yes, I would.

For my children, too.

Banana, I don't really understand the insular approach and ghettoisation, though? They seem like quite loaded words.

No, disrespect, banana, but as someone who is not black, you will never quite understand the desire/need for this, how could you?

Really, we just want to be able to live our lives in relative ease with people who have shared common experiences with us. That's not a negative, that's a positive. And for the record, I wouldn't really care how 'we' were defined, from the 'outside'. We've been 'defined' all of our lives, so..

That ghettoisation was extremely loaded and I knew instantly banana was non-black and insinuating we would someone attract all the bad things, lower house prices and crimes to the community and "change the landscape of the country" simply by being present. I wonder how she would feel knowing she is not welcome and cannot freely navigate large swathes of the country because you are not welcome. Disgusting

Every single Black person on this thread has expressed positive thoughts around the possibility of this type of community emerging. Isn't it interesting where the resistance is coming from?

On another note, when I first entered the corporate world some 20 years ago, I remember there being extreme paranoia from other quarters when 2 or more of the few Black staff were having a conversation (even if this conversation happened to be about the weather). It is reminiscent of the way slaves used to be separated from their kinsmen, lest they plot an escape. In my view, while these days it is more implicit, those types of suspicions haven't disappeared.

And yet Jewish people live peacefully around Stamford Hill and the like!