If you heard of a nice town/village where black people were moving to, would you join them?

[Sugarintheplum]

I'm just wondering.

I used to live in the US and they had black areas with good schools, attractive houses (like Fox Hills for eg), and we just don't really have that here.

If one emerged, would you be tempted?

@Starseeking - some bits of Cumbria do look like that, but there are also lovely market towns like Kendal and Cockermouth and bigger cities like Carlisle. But looking at those photos I can see why conditioning might lead you to think it's not for you...it's just so very different to the south of England and the Midlands. But as a PP says, places like Huddersfield are great too, and Halifax and lots of other Yorkshire towns...and Bradford is very ethnically diverse but very close to beautiful countryside...

Anyway enough of me doing the tourist board's job for them just wanted to say that it's not all muck and whippets up here, and although there are idiots everywhere, most people up here are friendly and accepting.

@BlackIsBlackIsBlack

Starseeking

Thank you for the info. I had no idea about these castles. And no idea that around 15% of the slaves perished at sea

It's absolutely harrowing when you think about what people went through. Whatever percentage they estimate about the people thrown overboard when they were no longer useful, it's likely to be a far greater number, simply due to the fact that they just didn't care to count, these people were nameless to them. And then they expect Black people to forget about slavery!

Slavery is by far the worst human atrocity I have ever heard about, much much more so than the Holocaust, not only because of the numbers who died, but also due those who were displaced from their homelands.

My heritage is Ghanaian, so while I'm not directly an ancestor of slaves, I'm very conscious that but for an accident of birth, I could easily have been, and feel a strong affinity with those in the diaspora with that history, particularly because there were so many heinous crimes against humanity committed on the soil of my motherland.

Thanks @Peach1886.

One the things which white people can't comprehend is the extent to which Black people travelling to these areas get stared at and followed around, especially in shops, as if we are common criminals.

While it may sound innocuous to stare, and white people would probably say "Oh, I only had a quick glance". Imagine it happening, EVERY SINGLE PLACE YOU WENT TO WHERE THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE. I can tell you from my perspective it is exhausting.

We went to Cornwall on holiday for a week a couple of years ago as a family, to a place that is extremely touristy. The DC were too young to notice anything, however it was obvious to me and DH that people stared at us everywhere we went. And I mean everywhere. While nobody is physically touching you, it is very intimidating being watched everywhere you go, as if people are just waiting for you to do something wrong.

No friendly acknowledgments in shops, as I have seen happen to unknown white people, no offers of help, sometimes even being overlooked and bypassed for the next person in the queue! This stuff happens to Black people all the time, however we were reminded of it while on holiday. I don't my DC to feel that way, which is why when we go on holidays in future, it will either be to our heritage country, or another African country.

As mentioned either earlier on this thread or perhaps it was the travel thread in BMN, Black people, like any other, just want to enjoy our lives in peace.

OP I'm not surprised by the response white people have when they visit these landmarks. White people's responses to slavery and colonialism

1. My ancestors were also enslaved by the Romans
2. Irish people were also slaves
3. Arabic communities still engage in slavery - let's focus on ending that now instead
4. My ancestors didn't benefit from either slavery or colonialism- they were poor and working class (aside from the fact the UK owes much of its structure from roads, bridges schools, hospitals and other institutions to these ill gotten gains)
5. I'm not taking responsibility for other people's actions (noone asked you to)
6. It happened so long ago why are you so fixated with it
7. They are idiots everywhere but the majority of us are nice and just want to focus on life and moving on (moving on is nice when it's just an awkward conversation for you ey)
8. There is blame on both sides what about those black people and countries that sold the slaves - they should also be responsible (I just can't 🤦🏾‍♀️)
9. It was a different time then and it was acceptable. You can't judge history by today's standards (yet we can all agree somehow that the holocaust was a dark moment in time -wonder what the difference is between these atrocities)

10. Stop playing the race card

The older I get, the more appealing it sounds.
It almost seems as if there's an inverse correlation between a minority group's success and comfort and their effort to integrate with white culture.
It sort of makes sense when you think about it.

Not black but I'm a religious minority (and a significant % of our community are Black) that is often vilified and the title attracted me because this is something we've often thought of.
I looked closely into how the Jews moved into Canvey Island and became fairly accepted into what is considered a BNP stronghold. It seems that several members of the community took on the duty of performing 'outreach' work, so going around community centres, schools etc and basically explaining why they had arrived, what their intentions were and how they were going to inject into the local economy. This helped them in their initial quest for acceptance, but it seems to be an ongoing thing and they certainly have not been trouble free. For me as a minority I reluctantly accept that I will always have to do a certain amount of work in order to be accepted, which as tiresome as it is for me would be worth it.
I think it is very doable, but you need to accept a lack of acceptance initially and be prepared to stand strong to the resistance. Also being committed to cross community work really helps, but I think that is also true of any 'newcomers' into rural areas, regardless of race.

For me as a minority I reluctantly accept that I will always have to do a certain amount of work in order to be accepted, which as tiresome as it is for me would be worth it

I am black. Black people who share your religion are Black and thennpart of a religious minority.

My experience as a Black woman is being discounted immediately and stared at in parts of the country because of my skin colour -somerhing I cannot change. I am discriminated against before I even have a conversation with anyone. As a "religious minority" someone has to have a conversation with you to find something about you to discriminate. This means you can navigate your daily life normally until someone finds out WHY They don't like you. Black people in your position have the double whammy of being discriminated against for the way they look and then being part of your community.

I really don't know what work I can do to stop me being manhandled by shop security because they suspect me of shoplifting because of my skin colour or being paid less because of my skin colour or being racially abused because of my skin colour or being 5 times more likely to die in childbirth.

But yes your victim blaming is very welcome. Respectability politics has never worked well for Black people but I'm sure you are right, us Black people are not doing enough and the reason we are not accepted enough.

Unfuckingbelievable

Iam my religion is visible (we are Muslim) I am also not white so people do not have to find something to discriminate against. We face a lot of discrimination, so I am certainly not blaming YOU as a black person. I am saying that I feel I have to do work in order to be accepted, this is my reality, so please do not feel I am victim blaming. In an ideal world there would be no discrimination or judgement, but we all know that is a looooon way off.

It is victim blaming to suggest Black people have to do work to be accepted. If you want to play respectability politics and "prove your worth" to be treated normally and that you are not like those black/brown people, that is you.

I refuse to tell Black people they have to "work in order to be accepted". This proves exactly why BAME moniker is harmful as someone will take your words to speak on behalf of all BAME people and use it to discount what Black people are saying by simply responding that we are not trying hard enough hence it is our fault. It is not helpful and regressive. "Good immigrant" springs to mind.

@IamtheAuthority

Your 1-10 list, I cackled, it's so true 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

That is entirely your perogative. It was claimed up thread that minorities except Black people are accepted, and from my lived experience I am telling you that that is not the case. It was also claimed that the Jews moved into Canvey Island without issue, that is also not the case.
As a white newcomer moving into a rural area you need to do extra work to be accepted (and many threads will tell you that you still won't be for at least 3 generations), and we all know and have felt structural and local discrimination which is going to be a much bigger barrier for BME families, therefore for me I do feel like I have to do extra work (rightly or wrongly).
My point is that other minorities have not seamlessly slotted into white rural areas, there have been issues, so this certainly is not a Black only issue.

I reluctantly accept that I will always have to do a certain amount of work in order to be accepted.

Why should Black people be held to a higher standard than other groups? No-one else does that.

Why shouldn't Black people be able to live their lives in peace without having to justify our existence or explain our presence? No-one else does that.

Nah, F that for a game of soldiers, I'm never doing that, and I say it with my whole chest.

If ever white people wonder about how ethnic minorities came to the UK:

I am here, because you were there.

I have not discounted your experience and said that is for you to do but do not prescribe that as advice because it is harmful and regressive and suggests people are at fault if they are not treated properly or they have to play at respectability politics or whatever ridiculous barrier to "get accepted" which is never the outcome for Black people.

What you are doing is victim blaming

Apologies if you or anyone has taken offence at what I have said, that was not my intention. No one, based on race, class, religion etc should be held to higher standards but the reality often is that they are. I was saying in contradiction to claims on here that other groups are accepted off the bat, they have had to do a fair amount of work. Should this be the case? Absolutely not, but we are not in an ideal world. BAME communities have always been othered and held to higher standards.
I totally get your point about respectability politics, growing up in white areas most likely does that to you without even being aware of it.

Disclaimer - another white rural dweller here.
I wasn't going to post, I'm just an obsessive trawler of the active threads and this one popped up, but then I saw this
"I am here, because you were there"
and just wanted to say it's one of the most powerful and succinct statements I've seen about this topic and it really moved me. I just wanted to let you know your words touched me.

Since I'm here, my thoughts? When I moved here to this small (about 5k residents) village about 20 minutes away from a very diverse commuter town with rail links into London I was pleased to see it was more diverse than the wealthy market town I had moved from. There are a number of black families here and as far as I can tell, they are part of the community as much as anybody else HOWEVER this village is populated by workers for a large international corporation who have a base here.

This makes us more international (lots of white Africans as well as europeans) and a more wealthy and mobile (by this I'm trying to say not eighteenth-generation local. Not sure if mobile is the right word) population than some rural locations. This also, however, puts a premium on the cost of living here, along with vague proximity to London, and there's not much in the way of social housing, so there's lots of middle class, nuclear families. Something I didn't notice until my husband fucked off and I realised I was one of the few single mums actually living in the village.

I wouldn't like to comment on how welcome or otherwise the black families in this village feel, I can only speak for myself and the families I do know who would all welcome more diversity for multiple reasons. I'd love for my children to be part of a more diverse local community that reflects the society we live in, but I've not lived in a big town or city as an adult and I can't imagine doing it now, so all I can do is reassure those of you with concerns that there would be some that would welcome you to these rural parts with open arms.

As to food and hairdressers, well, there's one (white) hairdresser in the village who is permanently overbooked and a Nisa with the most bizarre and un-thought-through selection of produce i have ever seen, so God knows if you'd find what you were looking for. I head into the big town if I want anything more unusual than bread! I've seen several mobile hairdressers advertising on the local FB so you might get lucky there.

God, can you tell I'm procrastinating. Hope something I've posted is vaguely relevant. I totally understand why you'd want a black community though. I can't imagine how it must feel to be othered every day in the place where you live. It makes complete sense to me that you'd want somewhere where you can just....be.

This article may assist those who believe respectability politics is the only game in town for Black people to achieve acceptance:

inews.co.uk/news/real-life/buying-a-house-with-a-white-man-privilege-874473?fbclid=IwAR0btpSQuv0oNLuJndQNSykiQHau5YVmPKxBOKRpJV7MdlI2tyVq6jlKWHg

www.bupipedream.com/opinions/94369/the-problem-with-respectability-politics/

No amount of "respectable behaviour" actually mitigates racism.

Respectability didn't stop Philando Castile (a teacher carrying a licensed weapon which he made the police officer aware of at a random stop before being killed) from being shot by the police.

Respectability politics is what makes people dismiss George Floyd as a thug and say his life was not worth anything because he had a criminal past (seen so much on MN).

Just by saying act better you are placing the responsibility onto the oppressed instead of the oppressor.

Fuck that! It seems like a small thing but your comments is the kind of thinking that leads to people losing their lives and then people using this line of thinking to dismiss their worth as "if you acted better, this wouldn't happen to you". It's disgusting, vile, apologist behaviour to racists and regressive.

I am here because you were there.

Just wanted to say it's one of the most powerful and succinct statements I've seen about this topic and it really moved me. I just wanted to let you know your words touched me.

Thank you @Iveputmyselfonthenaughtystep for this comment. I can't take the credit for it, as I heard it somewhere a long time ago, and find it very appropriate.

There needs to be more education and honesty about the British Empire, its impact, and the devastation it wreaked on (developing) countries across the world. I would also welcome the same on the origins, continuation and ending of slavery in relation to Black people.

However given that history is written by the victors, plus a lot of people believe the British Empire was A VERY GOOD THING for those poor unfortunate natives living in mud huts (but let's overlook the rich natural resources which was stolen from their lands) I'm not sure we'd ever receive the full picture.

@Starseeking to the point that our current Prime Minister says it was the best thing to happen to Africa and the best way to help Africa is to recolonise her.

Um no, maybe pay back the wealth you stole, stop unrealistic loan conditions and instituting regime change in sovereign countries because they are sympathetic to your needs and then crying foul of dictatorships like it is an African condition when you are the one pulling the strings and even offering underhanded bribes.

More honesty and transparency of the British Empire is necessary, then people can stop thinking colonies ended hundreds of years ago when the British had presence in the continent right until the 80s

When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.

Desmond Tutu

@IamtheAuthority

When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.

Desmond Tutu

So true.

Peach1886 thank you for the uplifting and informative posts

While nobody is physically touching you, it is very intimidating being watched everywhere you go, as if people are just waiting for you to do something wrong.

The starring is weird and creepy, and very exhausting. Of course, if you say anything, you're the one with the problem

Trust me, it's just weird!