Black People not taking the vaccine

[tootsytoo]

Just wandered what you guys think about it really?

I'm a little sad about this whole situation. That we are so mistrusting and paranoid about everything, and forget about real problems that actually are holding us back, the vaccine not being one of them.

I fully get why we do not trust the government but I don't get why as a majority, when covid is killing us disproportionally, we are more concerned about long term (unproven) effects of a vaccine as opposed to covid which we know can kill and cause long covid.

Just wandered views of other black people here on this?

They are talking about this right now on LBC (James O'Brien)

There was a black medical researcher on Victoria Derbyshire this morning who gave some insight into the reluctance of many in the black community toward the vaccine. He said that the failure to act on the recommendations of the PHE study into BAME and Covid 19 published in June last year has led to frustration among black people.

So when the vaccine was first reported to be safe and ready for roll out many black people felt distrust that they were, unusually, being put to the front of the queue to receive the jabs because of their greater susceptibility to the virus.

I can understand why people would feel that they were the guinea pigs.

Hi, OP

Had mine a couple of weeks back. I was nervous but, touch wood, I've been fine.

To be honest, if I wasn't frontline, I don't think I'd have had it, but needs must, I guess.

I have a lot of sisters...they all rang me up, begging me not to take it.

@BlackIsBlackIsBlack why didn't your sisters want you to take it?

Waakyeandredred, they were convinced that I would become really poorly, or die, from it. They were genuinely worried, and I've never received so many phonecalls than the night after I'd had it.

The thing is, I was comfortable in my decision so, although I took on their concerns, I'd already made my mind up.

I love my sisters, but they can be quite pushy and don't always allow for others' to have an opinion! The love is there, though

Families, eh

@maggiethecat

There was a black medical researcher on Victoria Derbyshire this morning who gave some insight into the reluctance of many in the black community toward the vaccine. He said that the failure to act on the recommendations of the PHE study into BAME and Covid 19 published in June last year has led to frustration among black people.

So when the vaccine was first reported to be safe and ready for roll out many black people felt distrust that they were, unusually, being put to the front of the queue to receive the jabs because of their greater susceptibility to the virus.

I can understand why people would feel that they were the guinea pigs.

Were the results of that report available for the public to see?

So when the vaccine was first reported to be safe and ready for roll out many black people felt distrust that they were, unusually, being put to the front of the queue to receive the jabs because of their greater susceptibility to the virus.

@maggiethecat this is real talk. When I saw Matt Hancock encouraging BAME groups to get the vaccine, I did shudder. It was unusual

I had my first vaccine recently at work and was keen to get it. The majority of people in the room with me were white colleagues and the black nurse who administered my vaccine didn't pull mine out of a special bag. In fact, we all just had to go to the first available station to get our jabs.

I related all this to my parents who have now had theirs too but I didn't push them into it. My uncle isn't having his as he doesn't trust the government. I won't be calling him to try to encourage him, he's a grown, intelligent man - it's his choice completely. I do wonder if he will have it if it becomes his only way of getting on a plane and going on his regular trips to the Caribbean.

I do wonder if he will have it if it becomes his only way of getting on a plane and going on his regular trips to the Caribbean.

I suspect they will be a few!

I dislike all types of medication, so never even take things like paracetamol. I'm also flip flopping over whether to try for one last DC, and pregnant women are being advised not to take it, given we don't know the effects in the unborn (I'm aware they don't do clinical trials on pregnant women, however does anyone recall the thalidomide scandal?).

I remember being terrified going into hospital to have DC, but too scared to opt for home birth, given the statistic that Black women are 5 times more like to die during childbirth than white women. Luckily I was able to have only gas and air while giving birth.

I have vaccinated my DC against all the childhood diseases according to the schedule, but I must admit I have my doubts (and no scientific training) about the speed with which the Covid-19 vaccine has been rushed out.

That said, I'm encouraging my parents to take it (late 60's and early 70's), as it seems to affect their age group so devastatingly.

they were convinced that I would become really poorly, or die, from it. They were genuinely worried, and I've never received so many phonecalls than the night after I'd had it.

So are they less worried about you catching covid? Do they think you're more likely to die from the vaccine than covid?

Sorry but it's ridiculous. I'm not over the moon about getting the vaccine don't get me wrong I have concerns, would rather it have been around longer etc etc but I just don't understand why people are less concerned about covid killing them than a vaccine that's killed so far, no one. Whereas covid has killed 100,000 people.

Think it's fair to say much more likely to die from covid.

I've just found out disappointing because honestly I think it highlights some of the ignorance amongst our community to certain issues and I feel like as a community we tend to focus on problems that are not harmful and miss or ignore the ones that actually are.

I'm also sad as I do not want my community disproportionately affected by a killer virus.

Guess I'm just annoyed, confused and sad about it all

This Gov.UK link contains (1) a report 'Understanding the Impact of Covid-19 on BAME groups' published June 2020 and (2) A letter from the CE of Public Health England to the Equalities Minister with the recommendations of the report as a guide for the government to tackle the inequalities revealed

Note that the report was produced by stakeholders, about 4,000 people from various communities and with 'broad interests' in BAME issues and looked at various factors including socio economic inequalities in BAME groups which support the findings of a rapid review of available literature which found that BAME people were more likely to test positive and to die from the disease.

The rapid review of literature was the blunt tool used at the time because of the lack of hard data and it is made quite clear that the data was not of high quality.

However, the review's conclusion was that people of black African and black Caribbean descent were at greater risk of death.

The 4,000 stakeholders then looked at the health inequalities that may affect greater transmission of the virus and death in the BAME community and put forward their recommendations.

I think the frustration felt is that these recommendations appear not to have been acted upon. I expect that the government will say that they have acted on the suggestions but perhaps someone can point me to evidence of what's been done.

One recommendation was that ethnic focused data collection should be done in order to act to mitigate the effects on BAME. Another was that culturally sensitive occupational risk assessments be done, especially for key workers, in order to reduce exposure. I wonder if BAME medical staff in particular have ever been given extra levels of PPE? Another was developing a communications strategy for risk reduction measures for BAME including testing, tracing and ULTIMATELY VACCINATION.

Perhaps if the government had paid attention to the communications strategy point they would have ramped this up regarding vaccination from very early. It seems they are now waking up to the reality of distrust in BAME communities and I saw that there have been so many media reports on radio and tv today about this problem.

These were some of the more immediate stakeholder recommendations to tackle the disparity. Then there were the longer term objectives of tackling health inequality which could be a manifesto for going forward.

So, to the OP's concern, I am not clear on how many, if any, of these recommendations have been considered and implemented but to the extent that it appears that there has been little uptake, the BAME community is understandably distrustful of the vaccination.

However, it is mind boggling that we are at over 100,000 deaths today and there are many more to come and I would say to people, especially BAME because of our higher risk, think long and hard before you refuse the vaccine.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-understanding-the-impact-on-bame-communities

I think there's a difference between antivaxxers and vaccine hesitancy, given the history of Black people and targeted dishonesty with regards to medical procedures and in the way the pandemic has been handled with respect to Black people and other minorities

I understand vaccine hesitancy and I blame the government for not having a targeted response and addressing issues that were predictable to ensure people feel heard and safe. Many people have valid concerns about the immunity provided given the virus is mutating. It doesn't take much to issue info graphics answering simple questions like this and encouraging people to get it. I think when you dismiss vaccine hesitancy as antivaxxers - you end up pushing people to conspiracy theories and the. Adopting those as there is plenty of fake literature and idiots willing to speak on it but not so many on the actual right side of things willing to advocate and listen and answer people's questions particularly Black and AME who have been let down during this pandemic

I will definitely get mine when I am offered. I know my family in Africa are extremely sceptical especially after the French scientists comments last year of trialing the vaccine in Africa first, when the cases in Europe were insane and Africa didn't have a fraction of the cases or deaths.

All these people are educated, some work in the medical field and believe strongly in vaccination - but do not for a second trust this vaccine. They all wish to wait it out until the effects are known. They also do not believe the vaccine delivered to African countries will be the same as that in use in Europe and the US. That unfortunately is based on factual past events and using people as guinea pigs.

I don't know how you get around that.

I agree with all your points @Dastardlythefriendlymutt. I'm far from an anti-vaxxer, but definitely suffering from what you term vaccine hesitancy (I quite like that description), as are some of my friends and family, who are all highly educated professionals.

The only Black people I know personally of my generation (late 30's/early 40's) who are remotely interested in getting it are my DH (he is someone who will take any medicine going), and a Doctor friend because she works on the frontline (and even she is still coming to terms with having to do so, given benefits outweigh risks).

I remember when there was some talk about BAME people getting the vaccine first; my eyes nearly popped out of my head, and universally amongst friends and family the feeling was that they want to experiment on us. Irrational perhaps, given people from BAME backgrounds have been disproportionately affected by the pandemic, however there is historical evidence of Black people being used as guinea pigs.

There is a long way to go before Black people will easily trust those in authority to do the right thing by us, as we've been so poorly treated in the past, as well as in current times.

I think it’s sad that it has got to a stage that black people have been segregated and only serves to highlight the prejudice around. There are are probably as many white people refusing it as well.
Nobody knows the long term side effects of this vaccine so it’s up to the individual.

@maggiethecat I worked on a Covid ward and I had a risk assessment due to being BAME. My manager could not explain to me why BAME are at risk. To be honest I don’t believe we are at more risk.

A lot of surgeons tend to be Asian, Taxi drivers the majority are Asian. Nurses in terms of a professional career is usually the nursing industry for African & Caribbean. So in the height of the pandemic it would was going to seem like it effected BAME the most.

I was never given extra PPE and if NHS felt I was a risk why didn’t I shield? Why was I not moved to another low risk area to work?

@Daisypaisy2 I do question why the deaths rates are no where near as high in African and Caribbean countries...even with the cases they have had the death rate is not the same as here in the UK. So you could be right, being BAME in itself may not be the thing that is causing disproportionate deaths.

I have a friend that was in Nigeria and I always asked her what it is like. I suppose to look at it fairly I’m not sure in Nigeria or South Africa how testing works and so on. So it’s difficult to compare.
When you look at they are a 3rd world Country compared to a rich Country like UK. Based on that fact I think they are doing better than UK with the resources they do have available it’s interesting.

Some people have argued that the figures are not recorded in the same way as UK are doing. I agree. The argument doesn’t stack up still.

I think the death toll in Nigeria and similar being lower is also to do with the average life expectancy. In UK is it 81 whereas Nigeria it is 54.

As the disease mainly kills over 50 this is probably the main catalyst for that.

I also think as another poster pointed out when they are discussing bame people not taking the vaccine they should also quote the number of who're people not taking it. Why is it always about BAME people being under a microscope.

If it were white peoples refusing it, they wouldn't report it as white peoples it would just be 'people'

I agree this is not right.

@Daisypaisy2

I have a friend that was in Nigeria and I always asked her what it is like. I suppose to look at it fairly I’m not sure in Nigeria or South Africa how testing works and so on. So it’s difficult to compare. When you look at they are a 3rd world Country compared to a rich Country like UK. Based on that fact I think they are doing better than UK with the resources they do have available it’s interesting.

Some people have argued that the figures are not recorded in the same way as UK are doing. I agree. The argument doesn’t stack up still.

Even making allowances for less testing and recording of cases, deaths have been nowhere near as bad as the UK or the rest of the west.

I have family in 4 Southern African countries. I think South Africa has been the worst hit because of having a more affluent population who travel out to Asia, Europe etc more. But that being said, they have a robust independent system in place for recording statistics and I would argue if the worst hit country is still recording much lower figures despite having lower resources, people having to pay for medical care etc., we are in quite a bad situation.

The rest of the countries locked down pretty early on when they had 1 or 2 cases. My family live in another country and in the lates 90s and early 2000s they had more deaths weekly due to the HIV/AIDS than they have had due to COVID. One can argue they are not recording COVID deaths but the morgues have not been overwhelmed like they were before where the country run out of capacity. COVID is there and spreading but with nowhere near the devastating impact or a large scale we have seen in the UK.

I think they are genuinely well within their rights to refuse a vaccine or question it and it's contents particularly when Western governments have been known to lie about donated medical supplies and their contents or medicines banned in their own country. They are not the worst hit and it makes no sense to insist they take it first like they are human guinea pigs, like the French scientists suggested. I do understand their hesitancy.

BAME itself is not necessarily a high risk factor it's the environmental factors and living conditions, jobs and lifestyles of BAME people in the UK and US that has made them more disproportionately at risk.

@Daisypaisy2
Look at the report in the link and as Dastardlythefriendlymutt has said it seems not that BAME people are genetically predisposed to the disease it is the factors such as occupation, urban living conditions/travel, health (obesity, diabetes etc) that put them at greater risk.

I remember early in the outbreak being alarmed at the number of BAME medics that had died - was it that there were disproportionately more BAME medics in the NHS?

I expect that there is a large amount of data available now so that scientists can drill down to look at the variables and make more accurate determinations of how communities are being affected.

Ultimately, the point is that BAME people largely because of structural socio economic differences and health issues are more likely to die from Covid.

@tootsytoo
I also think as another poster pointed out when they are discussing bame people not taking the vaccine they should also quote the number of who're people not taking it. Why is it always about BAME people being under a microscope.

If it were white peoples refusing it, they wouldn't report it as white peoples it would just be 'people'

I agree this is not right.

You seem to be contradicting your original post and the concern about BAME reluctance to take the vaccine despite being at greater risk.

@maggiethecat erm, not sure what you're suggesting, initially I expressed my concern because if my friends and family don't take the vaccine then I have more chance of losing them so obviously I am concerned.

Also - black people under a microscope from mainstream media and white peoples I guess is what I'm referring to. Obviously for black to discuss it with other black people is not quite the same thing.hence why this is posted it on black mumsnet

I hope it's ok to post on here, I'm not Black, but my race is considered BAME.
We are experiencing the same, our elderly do not want the vaccine and have said as long as the community, multi generational families living on the same site are looking after them, they don't need or want it.