(Black) Travel

[JayDot500]

I just cannot sleep, so I've been indulging in travel threads on MN.

God, I love travelling! I can watch travel vlogs on Youtube all day. I love hearing about other people's experiences. What are your best/worst travel experiences?
Solo Travel? (There are a few black YouTubers who make this idea tempting!)
Do you travel sometimes with a large extended family? (and miss flights at the rate my family does haha)
Do you visit the country/countries where your family hails from?

For some black people, there are anxieties/bad reputations that surround travelling to certain places. I do have anxieties around road tripping in the USA, but I know I will find the courage some day because the idea sweets me. I'd even love to do the trip in an RV, but my husband can throw a mean side eye . Maybe we can share experiences that might alleviate some of those fears/anxieties.

I'll share a little, sleep has finally caught me.

At the forefront of my mind is a trip I went on with my close friends. I want to recreate it with my kids (when they are a few years older). I want to go to Sweden. Hire some bikes. And every morning, we'll choose a route and just go. It was just so much fun. It was so new to me (North London girl who hadn't traveled much before then)

Well, first I'll have to wait and see if my DC will actually join me. DH has already opted to stay indoors and keep the kettle hot for us

Hi OP.

I have never had any terrible travelling experiences. I travelled to Punta Cana in Dominican Republic I was really surprised as I heard a lot of negative reviews before going.

I travelled in May and the weather was so hot from morning till night. The people were lovely and the Canadian people are real party people too. I would definitely recommend.

@Chel098

Hi OP.

I have never had any terrible travelling experiences. I travelled to Punta Cana in Dominican Republic I was really surprised as I heard a lot of negative reviews before going.

I travelled in May and the weather was so hot from morning till night. The people were lovely and the Canadian people are real party people too. I would definitely recommend.

Hello @Chel098

Yes, I've heard this too. I think the Dominican Republic had some fanfare around African American tourists dying there. I remember examples concerned black women specifically. Many black people I know have gone since and had a blast, quite like you!

But in the same breath, some people will say the same about places like Jamaica. I'm from the Caribbean so I'm likely to be biased and shrug off people's negativity.

Contrast that attitude with a friend being physically assaulted in Bulgaria, minutes after leaving the airport taxi. Purely for being black. I've been apprehensive about travelling to that part of Europe since then, but it's possible that I'd go and have a blast.

(None of us are going anywhere for now anyway, unless via fantasy 🤣)

Best trip I ever went on was to Auckland and the North of New Zealand, for a friends wedding. The people there are so so lovely and friendly. If it wasn't so far away, I'd go back again, and highly recommend it.

Worst place I ever went was Istanbul, Turkey. I was assaulted more than once in the street in broad daylight, followed round every shop I went into, and stared at everywhere. I felt so unsafe and anxious there, and couldn't wait to get back soon enough from the hell on earth that that 5 day hen do was.

I've travelled most of Africa. It's beautiful and amazing. Had an unexpected good experience in a few former Soviet countries especially Azerbaijan and Russia - but have honestly written off all of Eastern Europe and will not set foot in Turkey or Cyprus either from horrible stories from friends and family. I've avoided most of South America as stories of terrible racial abuse, but had a great time in Brazil.

Canada and the US were amazing, but I was advised by my non-black host family to stay north of the Mason Dixon qline so missed out on a huge chunk of the country, but I was still quite Young. I been back but only the east coast. Would love to travel more.

Had a horrid time in Australia and was racially abused by some white "Rhodesians" - as they called themselves, not going back anytime soon.

Wow Okay, so Eastern Europe, Turkey and Australia can be in our 'side eye' pile. Maybe there are ways to ease into visiting these areas, such as visiting friends settled there, or knowing the exact spots to avoid. I am sorry to see that Istanbul was awful for you @Starseeking. It is somewhere I do want to go; the Hagia Sophia, the markets, the food(!)... I'll certainly be more cautious about it now!

New Zealand is the embodiment of peace on earth imo. It's on my list because people only ever seem to have nice things to say about NZ, and the landscapes look beautiful. One day...

Contrast NZ with Australia, and yeah I hear you @setitoff. I have heard many tales of racism experienced in that country. Very sad.

I had never heard of the Mason Dixie line, but I've just googled it. I'd definitely be planning to go south of that because I want to visit much of that area for its history. Especially the black history (which is likely the reason why your host family told you to stay north of it).. Also, the barbeque/soul/cultural food fiercely pulls me to want to visit that area . I do wish I had done a trip like that when younger, but the confidence has finally arrived! Were there any places/areas you would highly recommend? I think I would need to plan a few different trips because I also long to see the massive California Redwoods. But those are on the other side of the country.

On Africa. Well, DH is Nigerian so we will be going, hopefully with MIL, in the next few years. I cannot wait, there is a lot I'm excited about tbh!

Senegal, Ghana, Namibia, Malawi, South Africa, Tanzania- those are the countries I specifically want to travel to.

Sigh, here is a lot to see in this life

Tunisia in 2000. Awful awful. Ended up covering our hair and face whenever we went out we got so much abuse for being foreign and apparently debased. Was teenager at the time with other teen friends abd told it was liberal. Have heard from my white friends that they were treated as though they were selling sex in Morocco. If you stick to the resort I'm sure its all good. We'll, im not sure, even the men working in our resort made lewd comments abd invited us to 'parties'

Australia - was asked by a child out there whether I was 'aborigine'. Tbh there are some places I just think they still have that entitled racist attitude abd Australia is one. BUT do many species exclusive to that country abd seeing kangaroos about the place hanging out like steam dogs was tremendous, so memorable. I'd say go, but on a decent airline that appreciates its passengers like Singapore ~not BA~

China. Again, glad I went, but yeah, had people taking pictures on me in the street because I'm black. Ugh. Was an uncomfortable feeling a lot of the time.

Italy, sorry (not sorry), so racist. Remember my bf being asked how much I cost in Venice when we were 18. I'm writing this thinking my daught is NOT going to Venice with her bf at 18. jokes. Pescalia - nearly missed my flight because airport staff took my passport and bf's passport away to 'check'. Only black woman/black man couple in the airport, including our friends who were all black man/white woman. Look, I just found Italy racist. But beautiful. Tuscany one of my fave places in the world, but for the racism.

Returned from Ghana a changed woman. Actually considered myself African after that trip. Before I wouldn't have said that. I felt it, but my identity as a black African Caribbean really came to the fore.

Jamaica. Go to maroon Town and accompong. Nuff said bout dat. Also the literary festival Calabash. As for resorts I always stay on the cliff slide of negros, but then I'm not a sand abd beach person.

Ethiopia, go to Lalibela. Impossible to see the work of black people 1000 years ago and not feel just a but special (superior?)

Trinidad carnival. Possibly the best holiday ever possible? Onw whole island full if black people jubilant and dancing?

Loved Budapest, but then I like lamb stews. Can't remember much more about it than the food. Epic fail, I know.

I used to want to go on raving hols to Eastern Europe, but im not in that phase anymore, so missed the boat.

I did Cyprus in Ayia napa days, but 1998 actually (i know what WERE my parents thinking??!!) Anyway the whole napa thing hasn't taken off yet, 98 was the year it got going, so we were treated really well, hardly any black people there. Hardly bought a drink for ourselves abd got all types of watersports free. Reggae boys were in the world Cup and the live for Jamaica was flowing strong. Again, looking back, soooo suspect.

Doha. Eeeek. I mean I had a great expat time w my Bessie mate, but what she described as a black woman living out there was startling. But the holiday was nice, relaxing, taken care of, a proper luxury holiday.

Cuba. I went in 2099 so can't talk for now, but I loved Trinidad. Went biking, went off trail. Kid you not we climbed some hill and part way up found a waterfall with still waters below. Just floated there for hours looking up at the sky. Never felt so profoundly at ease with the world. I want to describe the feeling better but im sure you'd chuckle at my clumsiness! Santiago was great for the revolutionary aspect and simply because it was like I was staring in the faces of Jamaican people. Uncanny.

Stray dogs, not steam dogs. Sorry

Negril not negros. I mean wth is happening to my phone predictive text?

Had an awful time in New Zealand. Chased by another car who threw abuse and items at our car. We're south east Asian of it helps

I never let racists stop me from seeing the world, but it's better to be forewarned. Worst places I've visited: Italy, Australia, USA (Mississippi specifically) and Turkey. Friends have had bad experiences in parts of Spain.

😒🙄I'm still side eyeing Australia. Has anyone actually been and NOT been racially abused?

I never let racists stop me seeing the world I agree to some extent but I still shudder at giving racists my money or paying (Italy, Turkey - list to long but those were the worst) or to have people gawk at me and try touch my hair and skin (Looking at you China). But I agree to a certain extent to try and visit at least once or not to shun travel completely because you are scared of racism.

I’ve never had any issues in Spain. I worked in Tenerife for a couple of months when I was younger. I went to Marmaris as a child and the people were nice and I booked to go to Kudasi in May in Turkey.

Australia would not be my thing at all though.

I've actually had really good experiences in Italy in my younger days (Rome, Milan, and Lake Como), though I suspect that may because a lot of Italian men are very welcoming towards Black women. I'm not sure how it would be there now.

I wouldn't let racists stop me from where I wanted to travel, but honestly, if I go away abroad, I just want to have a nice holiday, like anyone else.

After the first few gropings in the street in Istanbul, I started getting worries that something more serious would happen, and that no-one would come to my aid to help me. By day 3 in Istanbul, I was scared to leave the apartment, I found the place so very frightening and intimidating, and I'm not ordinarily someone who is cowed by anything.

Places I'd not want to ever go as they appear to similarly hostile countries towards (dark-skinned) Black people include South Africa, Australia and Russia.

@JayDot500 - interesting thread. I've only ever been to big US cities but have wondered what a road trip would be like. TBH I think that I probably wouldn't feel safe in some parts especially in these times but do your research if it's something you absolutely want to do at some point.

@samosamo - grew up in Jamaica and never went to Maroon Town but will bear in mind for next visit.

I was in Thailand before lockdown and although I was on a beautiful beach in a lovely hotel I remember comparing it to my last holiday in Jamaica which was vibrant and rich in music, culture and food. Thailand was lovely but while lying on that beach I felt myself yearning for that unique Jamaican vibe.

You've also taken me back to world cup 1998 - I remember being in France when Reggae Boys played Japan. Brilliant match - I exchanged flags with a Japanese woman and have it to this day.

Sorry to derail JayDot , getting a bit nostalgic there ☺️

@maggiethecat Nostalgia is welcome! We can't go anywhere right now, only look back and plan forward. All are welcome to do both

@samosamo Tunisia and Egypt. Two places that I don't know how to approach tbh. I want to see Egypt for its history, but again, I have heard so many horror stories. I will have to work on managing expectations before I step foot there. But I think I'll leave Tunisia to the sun worshipers

I have actually been to Morroco. We stayed outside of the Medina, and that calmed things down. I was with DH (DP at the time) and he kept the seedier side away from me, I believe. I have great memories; drinking Nous Nous on one of the Terraces overlooking D'emaa el fna, how refreshing Essaouria felt after Marrakech, random goats in trees, singing to a shopkeeper to get a discount on a ceramic dish, lamb heaven (the middle east can serve up some goodt lamb!). I would go again.

Italy. I looooove Italy. But yeah, the people were hit and miss with us. Some really friendly, some really horrible/dismissive towards us but very different attitude towards white tourists. Like you @Starseeking, I think there is a 'thing' for black women there. Whatever it is, it's soaked in fetishism. A lot of staring. My DH noticed it too, and he didn't find it funny/harmless at all. We drove from Florence to Cinque Terre (and Siena on a different day) and I just fell in love with the Italy. I will go back with my children, but tbh, I can't avoid having my guard up around the people.

@Dastardlythefriendlymutt this part--- "...but I still shudder at giving racists my money or paying" resonates well with me. Especially re my US road trip plans.

This thread has reminded me of a few conversations between my white uni friend and myself. She had arranged a semester abroad in Australia and her housemate was a Nigerian study-abroad student. This student had been there for a few months before my friend arrived. The house was on the south Coast, and not very hot for that time of year. I remember her saying 'why come all the way to Australia and stay indoors all day?' Well...

@wizzywig that sounds awful. Sorry that happened to you. That would absolutely be the kind of experience that's hard to shake off.

I have family in Barbados. Carnival season comes like Christmas lol.

@samosamo omg the raving trips! My friends used to go on these types of trips and they always sounded fun but messssy! I had a lot going on in my late teens, so missed out on all of that! People need to tell me where the rave for the 45+ crew is at, since that's the age I'll be when my DC are old enough to fly the nest (at least to uni anyway)

I aint gonna lie, I love coach trips too! There, and I said it with CHEST. That's how I plan on travelling around China. Let someone else do the planning and translating, and I can just go along with my middle-aged self.

I've been to Bulgaria twice and suffered no racial abuse.

I went to Australia and was buying a sandwich in Subway because that was the only place I could find to eat. The white female assistant started being rude to me as I couldn't work out what I wanted mainly as I hadn't eaten at a Subway before. I told the people behind me to go before me and queued up again behind them. A couple of white male office workers behind me started laying into the assistant and telling her not to be so rude as I hadn't done anything plus had been polite. She carried on and another white female customer then started on her. The two guys then waited until I had ordered, got my food and left before they left.

The open incidents of racism I saw where directed at two aboriginal guys. One of the guys was a tour guide and a lot of the shit was focused on his afro hair.

Many white Australians are rude in general as I met up with some friends and one who was white also suffered loads rudeness. They act like it is just straight talking but New Zealanders regardless of ethnicity are straight talking and polite. I would love to go back to New Zealand bit not Australia, though I actually know more Australians. They are are in the UK because they think their home country is backwards.

I can honestly say that I’ve never suffered from any racism when travelling abroad or if it’s been there I’ve not noticed it .
I’ve travelled on my own with just me & my son and with just my husband who is white
I’ve done a few group type hiking walking sport holidays as well .
The only thing I get is the usual “ where are you from - no I mean where are you really from “ mainly from other locals from whatever country who genuinely want to know where you are from .

But In twenty years I’ve been to Dominican Republic many times same for Mexico and Cuba

I’ve also been to all of these country’s at least two or three times Thailand Maldives Dubai Australia Turkey and most of Spain and the Balearic Islands and Canary Islands Morocco Egypt

In America I’ve been to Vegas New York Miami & SanDiegio and LA and I’ve never felt scared to go anywhere or do anything .
Some have been package holidays others were independent travelling
The only places I didn’t like personally was Jamaica 😂 mainly because the resort we stayed in they really discouraged you from leaving the resort and I have never had that anywhere else
And Tunisia beautiful beaches and hotels but as a woman I didn’t feel safe on my own wandering around ( not because I am a black woman but because I am a woman )
In any other place that I have been going out on my own has never been an issue
I’ve been to Australia twice and never been abused racially or otherwise

@im5050 - that's such a shame about your experience of Jamaica but I know that there are still security issues which will lead resorts/tour reps to take this view. Of course I am biased but you missed out on some of the most breathtakingly scenic natural beauty that you will ever find and for the most part the people are warm and friendly.

@JayDot500
Never had any problems in Egypt. Went to beach resort in Hurghada and Giza for the pyramids. Only thing I'd say is that I was faint from the heat. Never been anywhere else where the temp is 45C plus 😱

Just as well that you're not interested in Tunisia - a man offered to trade my husband 20 camels for me 🤣

I sometimes tell him that he missed out on a good offer.

To be fair on other countries, the UK is also incredibly racist, especially so in some areas.

I remember driving through central West London (Chelsea ish) and was driving at an acceptable speed. White guy clearly didn't appreciate my not breaking the law and eventually sped by me hollering 'you ugly black bitch!!!!'

I yelled back 'who are you calling UGGGLLLLEEEEEEEE????'.

When I narrated this to the white mate I was going to see she said 'and ugly was the part you objected to?!'

Fact is I've been called a black bitch in London before, but never ugly. Haaaaaa

Some pubs in UK and even in London I wouldn't step foot in. Usually the ones smelling of fart....

Are there any places in UK you wouldn't go? Or you'd think twice? Or you'd tell a bunch of people you were going there in case you didn't come back in good time?

@samosamo yes I agree. I think it’s like that in every city is it not?.

I’ve visited Liverpool on a few nights out years ago when I was younger then around 4 years ago.

Something doesn’t sit right with me about Liverpool it was probably just a bad experience I had but I needed direction and I asked a Middle Ages couple and they walked right past me. The couple definitely heard me and another group of white guys said the same why did they just ignore her and they gave me directions. So not everybody is like that. It is off putting though.

We live alllll the good experiences, keep them coming .

@maggiethecat Okay, Egypt. I think I'm going to put it on the 'when the kids are older teens' pile. I want to do the desert quad biking too

Re the UK. I have been to Wales several times (with mostly white friends, but once went with a Chinese friend). I do love Wales. We once stayed in the town of Betws-y-coed, and it was the most picturesque village I'd ever been to (at that time). I will return there. My DH point blank refuses to return to Wales after racist experiences not far from there (he travelled with black friends and after two instances of verbal abuse they cut the trip short and left). Wales is his Australia 🙃

I won't lie, I do get apprehensive about travelling around rural UK. Then I feel stupid for thinking like that in my own country. I would love to just confidently book places without concerning myself about hypothetical scenarios. It cannot be healthy.

When I narrated this to the white mate I was going to see she said 'and ugly was the part you objected to?!'

This made me laugh! 🤣🤣🤣

I’ve been to Egypt & Turkey many times and loved them both . Fabulous fake handbags 😂
I did a diving holiday with my diving club so spent a week on a boat diving then a week in Nama Bay in Sharm I’ve been there with my husband and with my niece and son
Turkey I’ve been with my husband and on my own and with my niece Olu Denize and Fethyie are both gorgeous and about 30 mins away from each other I am hoping to go to Turkey this year at some point
I’ve never really thought oh I shouldn’t go there because the people might be racist .
I just go where I like .
My son is gay and I have told him to avoid certain countries mainly the Middle East Dubai and Egypt as they aren’t particularly gay friendly 😂
Although he’s been to both with me as a young kid and as a teenager years ago I thin as a couple it wouldn’t be a place they could relax properly .
Morocco I wasn’t overly fond off I did I hiking holiday in the mountains for a week and then a week on the beach on my own
I think if your going on your own find the nicest hotel you can rather than a cheap little place as the more expensive hotels tend to have more of an international client base and so are used to lots of different people

In 2019, my husband was sent on a business trip to Canada. Naturally, I decided to join him, and even take our two teenage children. After all, it is not often that you get the opportunity to ride so far! But the problem of obtaining visas to Canada took us a very long time. For some reason, we were suspected of intending to emigrate to this country. I was at a loss. Why would I emigrate alone after so many years of marriage? I had to look for many sources to collect the necessary documents. In the end, we got our way and the passport control official gave us the right to enter this country.
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www.travelsafe-abroad.com/canada/