(Black) Travel

[JayDot500]

I just cannot sleep, so I've been indulging in travel threads on MN.

God, I love travelling! I can watch travel vlogs on Youtube all day. I love hearing about other people's experiences. What are your best/worst travel experiences?
Solo Travel? (There are a few black YouTubers who make this idea tempting!)
Do you travel sometimes with a large extended family? (and miss flights at the rate my family does haha)
Do you visit the country/countries where your family hails from?

For some black people, there are anxieties/bad reputations that surround travelling to certain places. I do have anxieties around road tripping in the USA, but I know I will find the courage some day because the idea sweets me. I'd even love to do the trip in an RV, but my husband can throw a mean side eye . Maybe we can share experiences that might alleviate some of those fears/anxieties.

Turkey (2020) I found to be lovely. The people treated us nicely, everyone was welcoming. A “side eye” and laugh that me and DP had was that we walked into one of the bars, it was empty... and they started playing Vybz Kartel, Alkaline, some afro beats- just because we arrived and stayed😂 Tbh, we loved it... But i understand some people may have a problem with it.

Oh, one other “incident” happened. Party promoter tried getting us into the bar by shouting “BLACK LIVES MATTER!” at us. Not great.

Overall, I would definitely go back

Egypt (2019) Constantly asked “where we are really from?” We would say England, they’d keep prodding us until we said our parents are Jamaican. They’d then refer to us as Jamaican, my DP was “Bob marley” and I was “Beyoncé”...

When we visited the pyramids, I kept being called an African Queen as a prompt to buy their stuff.

Egypt- there was too much questioning of where we’re from etc. So probably wouldn’t go back. It was extremely irritating when trying to relax.

We also felt out of place in the hotel as there was soooo many white faces. Pretty sure we became known as the “black couple”.

Those are the only countries that have been slightly iffy for us... Out of those two, Spain, Malta, Belgium, France and Morocco on the race front.

I would avoid Morocco, but for entirely different reasons... The begging was TOOOO much! One street child even put their hands in DP’s pockets

Great thread! I’ve travelled a fair bit but somehow never got to USA, waiting for it to cool down a bit now IYKWIM.

I suffered a lot of unwanted sexual advances in Egypt, I only just got together with my husband who was then my BF and he was so shocked.
We went to China and were like a celebrity couple: my black skin and his white skin. Probably didn’t help that we are both tall ish so stood head and shoulders above most of the Chinese. Funnily enough, we didn’t get the same attention when we crossed over to HK.

Turkey twice with friends, more overt male attention but nothing that I couldn’t handle and it didn’t appear to be racist (though who knows if it was fetishisation?). Shamelessly, I used it to my advantage to haggle for bags.
Trips to cities and holiday resorts in Spain and the islands have been brilliant. I hear what some of you are saying about Italian men but interesting that some PP have suffered racism there. Maybe it depends who you come across.
Going to my parents’ home Caribbean island always makes me laugh because even though everyone looks like me (which is the most amazing feeling), they immediately know you’re “English”. Must be the way I walk!
I had preconceived ideas about Germany but knew how much H wanted to go (I had been there for work so not quite the same) so I went with him and we had a blast. The Germans were lovely and welcoming, best trip.
Eastern Europe and Australia do not appeal for the reasons given in PP but I would love to go to NZ.

Never been to Italy and never will, I've heard nothing but bad things about that country.

We've been fine in Turkey in both tourist and rural areas. Dw worked in Istanbul on a project and she was treated with respect throughout.

Spanish coastal tourist areas were fine. Madrid was a nightmare. I had a 'ticket inspector point a gun in my face (I'm not exaggerating) we bought the wrong ticket, an English speaking passenger saved us by pointing out we paid more for our wrong tickets. Plus dw and I were carrying suitcases from London with tags for that day. On our return journey, we had some youths spit on us from an upper level in Madrid station. We were only 20 at the time.

I will never go to India, a close black senior academic friend was sexually assaulted and she wasn't supported at all after it happened. I've heard stories from other academic male friends about being chased or verbally abused although fortunately none of them have been physically harmed.

Great post OP. Sometimes it can get quite draining when looking at holiday destinations and then the thought pops into your head '' is it a racist place.'' I've been to quite a few places around the world ( hopefully will add more)

The Good

1. Vietnam (2015)

I was a solo traveller, but went on a guided tour around the country. I'll be honest it was a great experience, yes people look at you, but they were generally polite and seemingly well manned. This was my impression, bear in mind i don’t speak Vietnamese so even if they said anything derogatory i wouldn’t have known. But overall a good experience.

1. Laos (2015)

Generally the same reasonable people, good food and a good time had throughout.

1. Thailand (2015)

Again pleasant trip, locals are more used to seeing black people in Bangkok and Chang Mai, so they don't really take much notice of you. Again a positive experience, the only friction I had was an interaction with a drunk American man.

1. Thailand (2019)

This time I went to Phuket, again locals seemed reasonable, but Phuket is swamped with Russians… there is always a general sense of unease around Russians, it starts with the stares.

1. Mexico, Cancun , apart from people offering me weed every 5 minutes. It was a reasonable experience. Due to its proximity to the states i think they get their fair share of black tourists.

6 Belize Belize is basically the Caribbean in south America, loads of black people , i got my hair cut, had a great time.

1. Guatemala

Definitely an air of feeling unsafe but not because i was black, mainly because it’s not a safe country. With Guatemala city being the most dangerous city in the world.

The Bad
Number 1 top spot goes to ITALY
Despite visiting Roma, Milan, Naples without any issue, bearing in mind i was with a large group of white friends.

Visiting the hell hole that was Laveno in the north was a great displeasure. I don’t know if it was the local Italians or the eastern Europeans. But from the moment we got there stares, on a packed bus we cleared a circle around us, people afraid to catch the melanin. We had one guy come up to one of our white friends and ask how we could afford to be there (skiing) and that we shouldn’t be there. Monkey gestures, it was crazy I’ve never experienced overt racism like that. I’m a well-educated doctor and I just couldn’t get my head around the fact that these people saw me as anything else. To top it all off, while were there, there was a snow festival and every participant was given a goody bag, with its own flip survival knife. I was not happy.

I’ve been to a number of others
Including KENYA
I cannot praise this county enough, when I went I felt at home( even though my family hail from west Africa), but being there, being black being proud. WOW Amazing, I really urge black mums netters to choose Kenya as a destination or Ghana. Only word of caution is choose your hotel wisely or you might end up as the only black face amidst a sea of white.
Places I would never use my hard earned pounds to visit are INDIA and Australia.

@JayDot500 interesting thread and really gets me wanting to pack my suit case!

I’ve heard negative things about Morocco and Tunisia - from people I trust so I would not want to venture there.

Regarding Cyprus I do think it very much depends which “side” you go to the Turkish Northern is very different to the Greek southern. I spent a long time in southern Cyprus as a child.

This is a great thread! I’ve not had many bad experiences. I also found the people in Italy unbearably rude. My DP found it uncomfortable to be stared at in Vietnam but he felt outright unsafe in India and would never visit again.

I’m Jamaican so I’m super biased and I really love my island. Cuba was great for us, everyone was very welcoming. I’ve also had great experiences in Spain, France and Portugal. People were so nice in Ireland.

I am sure I’ve been elsewhere but my mind has gone blank

OP if you do go cycling in Sweden let me know if you want recommendations, it’s my home country. We’ve been to Middle East a few times and no issues with racism but a lot of staring from locals. Turkey never any issues. A lot of issues in Greece, not from Greeks but other tourists (Russian). They were doing monkey chants to my then 4 year old in the swimming pool. Rotten dogs. US for us have been a mixed bag and we wouldn’t go back there now. At the time we were ok in New York but issues in Florida and Boston. Spain and Portugal no issues. Sweden and Norway ok, but parts of Denmark not great.

Thank you all for your contributions! Keep them coming please; the good, the bad and even the meh

@Lndnmummy That's very kind of you! Are there specific places/areas you would recommend generally? This trip won't happen for another 5ish years (I want both DC to be confident/independent cyclists before we go) but I am so excited about taking them!

@Gogetsalife Yes, the prices are ridiculous! By the time we can start travelling my youngest will be two. No more free travel for him, I could cry lol. It's interesting you said Denmark was awful. I had one of the best and worst travel experiences there (Copenhagen), and we only stayed two nights!
Worst part: I/we (diverse uni group) fell out with a very good friend because she was so damn bossy and the entire trip became all about her wants/interests. She became intolerable. It all kicked off on the walkway next to the mermaid lol. After this experience, I do not travel with any person just because they are willing/available.
Best part: Same said girl stomped off in a huff. The rest of us, in an attempt to salvage the trip, found a Karaoke bar and merrily battled against a group of Chinese tourists until the place closed. One of my happiest travel memories!

@SkedaddIe wow, I'm so sorry! That is incredibly upsetting to read. Madrid has never appealed to me, but your post has placed a fat red flag all over it. Pulling a gun out over an incorrect ticket? Sheesh. I dare not imagine how London transport ticket inspectors would act if they were that level of empowered.

@CollegeDoctor86 Russians! We had countless experiences with Russians during a trip to Turkey. Some unpleasant; many stealthy pictures taken of us and a few laughing at my braids. Some funny; a hilarious encounter with a Russian man in a Hammam. Some weird; my cousin kept being asked for her autograph and we still do not understand why because of the language barrier

I cannot wait to start travelling again. Feel free to share any post-pandemic travel details/stories here!

@Lndnmummy I'm truly sorry that happened to your child. We all fear that moment when our children become directly acquainted with racism. But a 4 year old and monkey chants? That's heartbreakingly cruel.

I have been to Australia twice. My sister worked there for about 5 years towards her consultancy level as a doctor. I enjoyed it both times and stayed longer than 2 weeks both time, closer to 4 weeks. Didn't have any bad experiences to be honest but was in New South Wales, Newcastle and Sydney. I would recommend it.

The pp who said they wouldn't let racism stop them from travelling, try Ukraine, Poland, Russia and Hungary and see if you have the same to say. The hostility is bewitching, and noticed by children too

I have worked in Germany more than once and confirm that it hasn't shaken its old cloak. If you have to have a photo and state your nationality/ land of birth on a CV, don't expect open arms. They like the idea that you are in their land, dispelling the myth that the far right are at work. But truely allow you to be and accept that you are not the stereotype of a black person? Forget it. With each and every new person that you interact with, they expect for you to tell them where you were born, where your parentage is from and why your accent isn't "African" I won't bore you all.

Morocco- avoid like the plague. Was haunted and chased by some rougue who was convinced that I was a prostitute as I was the only black girl in the group of friends. Same thing happened to my friend of Indian heritage; was pinched whilst walking through Marrakesh market, heckled on a bus for my passport, spat at, and felt general hostility for being there. One place on God's good earth I need never visit again.

Italy, agree with pp. Issues, issues, issues! Another culture that associates a young black Woman with paid sex. It ain't gonna happen.

Tahiti, nice place.

USA, Never had any problems and have visited DH's home town for many years running.

France- I feel at home here. sorry mum more than in Jamaica.

St Maartens, lovely!

The Netherlands - again lovely.

Kazakhstan- forget it. Changed jobs to ensure never being sent again due to safety.

Turkey - ok. No problems that I can remember. Went to Istanbul if that says something. However have experienced significant hostility from Turkish people in Germany many times. Only the Lord knows why.

@Gogetsalife your post made me laugh! "Avoid like hell.."!! Ha! Agree with North Africa and Eastern Europe. North Africa because I am a black woman and I am not Muslim.

Eastern Europe is a mixed bag for me, as I work with lots of Poles and Romanians and they are often an oppressed people like black people in many countries. Russia is a MeGa no! I don't care if they are known in Germany as the Blacks of Europe, I couldn't give a ..... just avoid it. Too many defenders of the white race in public blocking your path or simply following you. I have DC, can't take such risks.

Kenya was ok. Cold but ok. Would go back again.

If Zimbabwe wasn't doing so Shite, I'd love to visit.

this is a really interesting thread. Really good to hear other peoples experiences, good or bad. Forewarned is forearmed!

I've sooo enjoyed reading this thread.

Brings back the good old days of just going for it, with a simple, but optimistic itinenary created by me, for DH (white) & DS (autistic, 16+ & mainly non-verbal, but very vocal).

Our priorities are that it should be autistic-friendly. We don't stay in family fully-inclusive hotels, too many children staring at the boy. But being black is in the back of my mind.

We aim for slightly smaller towns, in most cases that works.

Italy is funny, they have a long history with black people, but when DH and I went along, the cab tried to scam us, but we were treated brilliantly at all the restuarants we went to. A bit like Nigerians really, in a lot of ways just a different colour I guess.

But, when we went with DS to Sorrento, first the stray dogs were a nightmare (boy is scared of dogs). Then I had a meltdown (yes, me - the calm one), when the boy was shouted at in a small shop, as he was pointing (I think) at their balloons, which were on the ceiling, he doesn't like balloons, but loves ceiling fans. I shouted at them & refused to leave the shop, precisely, cos' we were asked to. I sat on a stool. A Nonna had to come out and I tried my best to explain through another customer, why the owner was in the wrong. There was a lot of made up sign language.

We had a similar situation in Switzerland, where the boy, had run into a small shop, and probably tried to tell her to put on her ceiling fan. She started shouting, so we found him, DH said in English to a German speaking scared lady, that she was being racist. I decided to try and soothe her by explaining what DS wanted which was a moving fan. Of course, in English and made up sign language!
Some of the small lakeside restaurants can be stingy, I was charged for extra sugar

Wherever we go, mostly the hotel staff are lovely, we warn them about DS, when booking.

As much as we like travelling to different places, we've become less adventurious as we get older & he enters his prime. We can't catch or hold onto him, if he doesn't stop. I now need a stick when out, thanks to a certain rascal.
DS is amazingly flexible, when travelling, & will pull all the luggage when he can (no bag left behind). But we tend to do 7 days/nights, with 3 at unknown place, and 4 at known. Then we get a real holiday.

Some people do stare at us, if we notice, we think stuff them, & others are really friendly, and will try and engage with the boy. DH is more aware of it than me, but I always think we paid for this holiday and we are going to enjoy.

So thanks Girls, a great read . We can start reliving our adventures to get us through. until freedom comes and we are free to fly again.

Rural England is usually fine, we find, however there are those pockets who haven't caught up. Depending on my/his mood, we just sit down and make ourselves comfortable.

In a Welsh Indian restaurant, after a staff member asked what was wrong with DS , 'nothing' we said. We were told no tables were available even though they had one family sitting down in it. DH was so annoyed, when he noticed the restuarant had their leaflets on local car windscreens, he took them off and binned them!

This is such a great thread and incredibly informative.
I went to Poland as a teenager with my school and had local people approach me saying "black!" It was unsettling. I will never return again.
I have had very positive experiences in Spain. Where people have come up to me when I'm with my Scottish partner and started chatting to me in Spanish. And have been when my DP answers
In France on arrival to Rouen I was the only person to have their bag checked. There must have been about 30 people in the plane but I was the only one checked . That wasn't a fun experience.
In Lisbon a drunk woman abused me and my Portuguese speaking DP (same one) answered in Portuguese and dragged me away. But that hasn't stopped me returning to Portugal. Bloody love the place. We've taken our two kids there to the city and to seaside towns and they always get fussed over as do all kids.
I have never been to Ghana but feel I must visit. I am actually British born Nigerian but every time I go there it's like hard work . I feel that Ghana might get me
I went to Dublin in my early 20s and stayed with other travellers in hostels. Whenever we went to clubs I always had to present my passport. Just me. Massive side eye Dublin. I won't be back!
I also went to Ennis a tiny town near Galway and I went in pub with DP
(assume it's the same unless said otherwise ) and his Irish best mate and a man started chatting to me. A friendly stranger who decided to strike up a conversation with the only black person for miles. But he was really nice and I got a JD and coke out of it.
In San Francisco everyone was delighted by my British accent. I may have deliberately accentuated it 💅🏿
I am not very adventurous with travel as I worry about the abuse I might receive. I'd never go to Eastern Europe. Or Australia. I always loved the sound of New Zealand but not so sure after reading this thread.
Anyway, thanks OP for starting it