Spring is sprung, the grass is ris, I wonder where my toenails is - Due June 2010

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Ok, here it is ladies. Nice new thread for us all to enjoy

Paco is great LaT and love Daniel too.

MadameF you are not being unreasonable re smelliness - you need a fragrant night's sleep right now.

Welcome LateforWork.

V interesting views on the BW. I've stopped reading these books at night as I can't sleep.

Walked through St James' Park this afternoon after a meeting - all the daffodils out and croci everywhere - spring has truly sprung - and a lovely man gave up his seat for me on the tube!

Belated happy mothers day to you all.

I haven't posted on this thread before but I am due in June 2010 and felt a bit ropey today so thought I'd seek out some moral support from the fellow members of the June brigade!
I have a bicornuate (i.e. heart-shaped) uterus, and am carrying the baby on the right hand side and I just feel massive - my tummy feels at full stretch already as if there's not much more room for him in there! I am having an extra scan at 30 weeks but I am thinking of seeing if I can have it sooner as it feels like a long gap since the last one (at 22 weeks).
It's #1 for me, so maybe some of these feelings above are normal but it's all a bit weird the first time, it's hard to know what's normal and what isn't! People have started commenting on how big I am for 27/28 weeks which is just exacerbating my anxiety. I am due to see the midwife on Tues, so I should probably just hang on in there and ask her.....Just needed to offload really, not expecting a clear answer - so excuse the ramble!

LaT also a fan of Paco - good one!
sunworshipper hooray for the sunshine and the flowers making you feel cheery. Re. your comment on man giving up seat on tube, ordinarily does this not happen? Shame on the general public if not. I seem to recall last time around having to stick my bump out so there was no question over whether or not I was pg in order to get a seat. I

Hello ac1974 and congrats. Don't worry about the comments - people say the oddest things! I'm sure you're not as big as you feel.

Better day today. I know you're right, it's the hormones... but he still stinks! I was reading Filly's post about how her DH stuck post-its on relevant pages in baby book. Now that's the kind of organised, methodical not to mention involved kind of thing I would like to see my DP doing!! Sadly, that's probably just because it's exactly the sort of thing I'd do and I really shouldn't expect him to be like me and god help our children if we were that alike!

Another fan of Paco here LaT

LaT I love Paco too, even told DH about it last night as it's been on my mind as being very cool since I read the post.

Filly Good point on flexing EASY to suit your needs and I was hoping that would be the case. It was all her 'baby should be put to sleep in the same place/same way every time' that freaked me out a bit. I thought I'd have to become a hermit! Whilst I'm not expecting to carry on as usual or anything, my mum and sister both live very close by and are around during the day, so I am expecting to spend lots of time with them as well as at home. You've made me feel better about it, thanks.

Welcome ac1974, agree about ignoring the comments about size etc, people are so thoughtless.

marmite another night sweater here - so gross, i literally had a rivulet of sweat running down my cleavage last night - mmmmmmmm really attractive! Don't mean to be negative but it actually got worse when ds was born, sometimes i was amazed he actually wanted to breastfeed off my gross sweaty boobs - it didn't last long though!!

ac1974 welcome! try and block out all the negative comments & only hear the lovely positive ones. Yesterday within the same hour i was told i was 'enormous' and 'tiny' ...

Thanks for all the tips on BW, i've got her toddler book which has been really helpful so might get the baby one - gibbering i will buy yours!

Hello all

sorry I've not been around for some time. Having a crazy time here, having to move house blah blah.

Also just got out of hospital after a bleed, spend 2 nights in. All seems fine but am pretty anaemic so feel pretty crap.

Haven't had a chance to catch up on all the threads. Hope everyone is well

RnB OMG!! a bleed??? What caused that? Glad everything is ok now. Sounds like you've been busy. How's the SPD?

Madamefreckle sounds like you are a bit like me........DH really getting on your nerves and hormones make it 10x worse! He seriously needs to have a shower though before he goes to bed. Are you sleeping in the same bed together now (sure you said ages ago that you weren't????) if so put your foot down. These are the most uncomfortable weeks ahead of us now with serious lack of sleep......you don't want to be laying awake not being able to sleep because your DH smells!!!

On no RnB that must have been so scary. Glad to hear all is well now though. I'm an obsessive knicker-checker after being told I may bleed due to low-lying placenta but I think I would truly panic if I actually saw some blood.

Trying desperately now to get DH to read the BW but he's not a big reader and always dumps books halway through so I'm not holding out much hope despite the fact that he's super-interested in the baby. If only they did a version for the PS3, he'd have it completed in hours

Meggy that's got to be the future of parent craft - PS3 all the parenting guides! I think you're on to something there...

minimoo I have had the same mixed messages. At work, people say I look great (professional, kind souls...) and my mum, MIL and everyone at home thinks the bump is huge. Trouble is, they're right! I had my 28 week midwife visit last week and the fundal height is measuring on the top line of my chart. I don't want a huge baby! It hurt like hell last time and she was less than 7lb - how am I supposed to get something 9lb or more out?!

GTT was horrible, too. I felt very faint, but the result was fine in the end, so that's good.

Way overdid it at the weekend going for country walks and gardening and rushing for a train, so am in massive discomfort now. I think a few days resting (sitting at my desk ) should sort it out, but I'm really struggling to walk.

Have been following all the comments on the BW with keen interest. I was of the same mind as meggymegs and could not see how you could fit this routine into a normal life. There seemed to be no time to leave the house and I was worried about the twenty minute put to sleep routine for each nap in proper room with proper bed idea. I really would like my baby in a routine but dont want it to be in such a strict routine that a little change ruins everything and I definately dont want a baby that will only sleep in perfect circumstances. Also was quite worried by descriptions of the grumpy/touchy/spirted babies which she made sound really really awful. And the mention of babies and parents being incompatable. Was really freaked out and was stopping me sleeping, worrying about whether I could love my baby or not by the end of it. Thanks for your comments filly on it working with flexibility. That reasures me a lot. Its so hard expecting your first one and having really no idea what it will be like and how you will cope. You really want to get it all right but I guess noone can do that all the time.
Madamefreckle think you are more than justified at boing annoyed at your DH smell. My husband has a physical job and I hate the smell when he comes in specially as I am pregnant but the first thing he does when he comeshome is have a shower. I did have to tactfully teach him this when we first married though. Lots of talk of how nice he smells when he has had a shower might work better than critising his smellyness (just a thought).
Think we need more abbreviations than DH by the way as some people dont have very dear husbands and others have great ones. Think we should have AH(awful husband/annoying husband), LH(lovely husband) WH(wonderful husband) or maybe FH(foolish husband). Personally think mine is a WH I must say.
RnB hope you are ok after your experience. It must have been awful.
Like Paco LaT

Ooh, RnB, that sounds scary...glad you're ok now tho.

The BW book we bought before we had ds was the 'big one' that covers newborns to toddlers. I didn't even buy it until I was 41 weeks (ds understood that his dm is a bit last-minute about things and thoughtfully hung back a couple of weeks to give me time to finish work and get ready...!).

I didn't read it though......in fact, I'd recommend finding the 'useful' bits (like the 3 hour and 4 hour EASY routine page, the list of the 6 reasons why babies cry, the useful stuff on feeding and sleeping etc) and ignore the pontifications on baby-personalities etc. Especially at this stage- right now, it would just be scary!!!! Put the parenting books down right now!!! . Oh, and only the first 5 or so chapters of the BW are actually relevant for the first few months, so don't worry about the rest of the book anyway

Brain gone blank again, probably due to a huge workload and lousy piles (sorry if tmi) which make sitting/standing/everything very uncomfortable. Bit they've come back this early, despite my high fibre/lots of water diet, but its mainly due to the pressure of the bump etc....that's a legacy of giving birth to ds and dd I could definitely do without!

Oh yes....London meetup is now booked for tomorrow night. Details are here if you're still interested. Table is booked for 7.15, so if you're one of the people who was thinking of coming but never signed up, just come along - we can always squeeze an extra chair in for you

Hi all - been a while again.

RnB hope you're doing ok, and taking things nice and easy.

I'm w filly on cherry picking the best bits from the BW book. The BW was the third routine book I used w dd, can't even remember the first now (went out in the recycling, wouldn't have wished it on anyone), and #2 was the contented book which drove me demented. EASY is brilliant if you take some of the pronouncements w a pinch of salt. The basic concept of seperating eating from sleeping w a basic activity such as a nappy change or a bit of a cuddle was a turning point for me. Didn't subscribe to any of the personality stuff (what can you do about it anyway ). Didn't have a fixed sleeping place during the day, so never stopped me from going out. Also never got onto the Y bit of EASY. But at least every 3 hours I knew what was going to happen. It really is a case of trial and error to see what works for you. I think one of my biggest problems was the fact that a lot of people tell you to trust your instincts - well, that's all well and good if you have any to begin with - mine start and end in the office - and any I did have soon disappeared under sleep deprivation!!!!!!

Sympathies with all the ladies having to commute to work. If only there was some sort of teleporter, cos I'm ok at home and I'm ok in the office, but it's the bit in between which creases me. I told HR that I would work in the office until end of April, plus 2 weeks home working, which would then leave 4 wks to CS date. But now am seriously considering pulling that forwards by 2 weeks. I struggle to get into the office on time because I have to get a late enough train to get a seat, and same for the onward bus journey. On the way back, if I don't leave on time, I have to let buses and trains go and catch the next because I can't get a seat. There's no mistaking I'm pregnant but I think it's simply a case of everyone being in their own world and not noticing. Doesn't stop me thinking lots of horrible thoughts though. Had a baby on board badge helpfully supplied by Ken last time round, but have lost it in the interim, and Boris hasn't been so obliging this time. Maybe I should make my own........ (maybe not). Sorry for the rant

London Transport sent me 2 'baby on board' badges when I phoned to ask for them, Playftseforme, and I got them a day later...so worth phoning through and asking I know what you mean about the commute being the killer though - I've agreed to work up until the end of May, which should give me 2 weeks until my EDD but its the travel I'm worried about.

My big killer was lugging my laptop to/from South London on the tube, especially as there's a lot of steps at each end. I've now located a 'spare' (ahem) laptop which I've set up with my own details and am keeping in the S London office for the days I'm there - I can take all my files on a keyfob, and then just need my handbag. So far, that has made an enormous difference, as has refusing to travel in during peak rush hour...going home isn't so bad, as I get on the tube before it fills up, but the journey in is a lot more manageable at 9am than at 8.30. Can you negotiate anything like that to improve things?

Off to osteopath now...back slowly improving (hurrah!) but still very twingey (boo!)

Thanks for comments on BW book. Can I just ask if a routine actually does work and also how long does it take / when should you start? No one I know in real life has tried it at all. Thank you so much

Commute to work sounds awful, makes me glad I live in small town and walk 10 minutes to work (even if it is rather a boring place to live! Hope you all manage to cope with it as long as you need to.

Enjoy your London meetup everyone

Thanks for the tip filly - will get onto TFL now. Work is being as accommodating as I think they can be (working from home today tee hee as I threw all my dollies out of the pram yesterday cos had c**p commute). Good luck at the osteopath.

Goodname - there's just no hard and fast answer, and a lot of people are making a lot of money out of that fact by coming up with all these different so-called 'solutions'. IMHO you first have to decide whether you are a planner or go with the flow kind of person. I'm a planner through and through so I wanted some kind of routine to follow just so I felt I was achieving something and it gave me something to think about in the day (sounds v odd but that's just how it was for me ). My dd fed at 3 hr intervals so the feed that was nearest 6 am became the 'breakfast' feed and I just worked in 3 hourly chunks from there, so feed, some kind of cuddle/nappy change activity, sleep. And that was enough routine for me. I always seemed to know where I was, I was able to get out of the house, and I was better able to work out why dd was upset. Took, ahem, several weeks of trial and error to get there though..... Had a few friends who just went with the flow and they seemed perfectly happy with happy babies too!!

Hope the London ladies have a great night out tomorrow - sorry I can't make it, but dh still out of the country which makes babysitting a feat of negotiation w my part-time AP...

goodname I agree with ftse on the routine question, but my approach was the "go with the flow" type to start with. This is quite interesting as in RL I am a seriously planner-type person! But for some reason it just felt right to me to be a very flexible parent in the early months.

It didn't take long for DD to accept a "routine" once she was a bit older, but tbh I don't think I could have managed the pressure of trying to conform to anything in those chaotic early days. For me, it was easier just to accept that I was feeding on demand, she was sleeping when she wanted to, and we were muddling through the rest of it as best we could with sanity intact! She stayed pretty happy and it wasn't a big stress to gradually introduce a routine later.

The only books I used were:

• Babycalming: not a 'how to' book at all, just an informative book about babies' behaviour to help you undertstand what's going on.
• What to Expect, The First 12 months: Very useful reference book for e.g. symptoms of illness when you are worried at 3am!
• Dunstan Baby Language DVD: How to interpret babies' different crying sounds, which was actually a bit useful and seemed to work.

I would say, any book which makes you feel inferior or crap needs to be banished from the house. That is the last thing you want to be reading at 3am when you are desperate for sleep but your baby won't be put down.

Fwiw, I hated all books when dd was little. She didn't conform to anything that they said she would. She screamed round the clock, fed about every hour to hour and a half, and never slept for more than a few minutes at a time. I am to this day amazed that I didn't end up with PND, especially since I had to cope with all of this with dh away all week. I don't think a single one of my books mentioned that babies could be, and reasonably commonly were, allergic/intolerant to milk, and affected by dairy that I had consumed. Thank goodness for my health visitor and MN. I just wish that it hadn't taken 16 weeks to diagnose!

I found ds much much easier as a baby, despite him refusing to be put down, day or night, for sleeps for the first 13 weeks, which to some would probably seem tough, but to us, as he was calm when held and happy between naps was a revelation! We picked up on his milk allergy at 3 weeks, which also made life much easier than it otherwise would have been.

"I would say, any book which makes you feel inferior or crap needs to be banished from the house. That is the last thing you want to be reading at 3am when you are desperate for sleep but your baby won't be put down."

I couldn't agree with Ponymum more!!

I think she and Playftse have outlined the two different approaches to routine/go with the flow really neatly, and (for all the first time mums) its really worth noting that you can switch from one to the other fairly easily whenever you feel ready. Just don't do what one poor girl from my NCT class did - she was so desperate to gain some sense of control and sleep that she literally switched from one parenting manual to another (through 17 in all) over the first 20 weeks ...eventually the penny dropped that consistency was probably the most important missing element....

I'm like Playftse, in that I need to have some sense of 'where I'm at/what comes next' and then I can relax and enjoy things...the complete chaos that Ponymum refers to scares the living daylights of me and left me feeling completely incompetent ...so I guess you have to suck it and see

The post-natal discussions should be interesting....!!!

I didn't read any parenting books before DD was born. IT was just a personal preference. In fact, I don't think I did until she was about 10 months old. It was based on a bit of surfing I did on parenting issues while pg. I came across something on an 'issue', I can't remember what, on a parenting website and the articlse started, 'There are two arguments on ...' and I just thought: I don;t want to listen to anyone else's 'arguments' before I've even met DD. I just want to get to know her. Although I wouldn't do everything exactly the same as the first time round, I'm glad I made that decision.

I found DD fell in and out of routines throughout babyhood. It was nice when we got into one rhythm and confusing when it changed but up to a point it was good to follow her. As soon as we got into one, however, another one started pretty soon. She is routinised now, but only because she likes it (she's 2.2 - and I did choose the routing but only persisted because it worked for us both).

In terms of imposing one on them, IME people who tried to very early on really didn't enjoy early baby days as the baby would not conform! They start to remember things other than your face, you nipple etc around four months. Before that, I think (personal viewpoint warning!) that you might be beating yourself up over nothing trying to get into one.

I do know one or two parents who got into a routine very early and it made them feel more in control. I know mopre parents who burnt their parenting books in the back garden a couple of months in. For the ones who got into a routine early, it did seem to have involved leaving the baby to cry a lot. I suppose it depends if you're ok with this or not. Personally, not my cup of tea - at least when they're so small.

On a different note, was surprised and pleased to realise milk (or rather colostrum) has arrived already! I must have been inspired by bf counselling training on Saturday. We were doing a session on helping mothers with attachment and positioning using weighted dolls and it was rather realistic and I couldn't wait to get going again. Clearly, my body has taken the cue!

Evening all!
Quick post before I go to bed. Tis my birthday today (so need to change my age on the stats list I guess - am now 36 )Lovely day spent "working from home". Went for walk in park this afternoon with dog, DH and DD and ended up chatting to Michael Barrymore for over half an hour - most bizarre! He seemed a truly nice man and was giving me lots of helpful baby name suggestions for the twins...!

RnB that sounds really scary. Glad things are OK - try and take it easy.

Quickie on the routine thing...agree with filly and others on the ability to flex these routines. I certainly didn't follow GF to the letter by any stretch - in fact I largely ignored her daytime routine as I wanted to be totally flexible about leaving the house etc and meeting up with friends. But what I did find really useful was getting DD into an evening/bedtime routine early on (from about 7 weeks) and for this I did follow GF's routine.

My sister on the other hand followed GF in what can only be described as an anal fashion. Admittedly her baby is in a good routine, but she daren't ever disrupt the routine for fear of it all going pear-shaped.

Good point also filly on being consistent. No point chopping and changing from one to the other.

Am gutted not to be able to make the London meet-up tomorrow ladies. DH is editing in town all afternoon/evening and we don't have anyone else to put DD to bed. The restaurant looks faberooney and I hope you all have a great time.

Sympathies to those having rubbish commutes. Am fortunate in being able to drive to work (and in less than 30 mins) so no lugging my laptop around the City.

Happy Birthday MonkeyMargot.

Forgot to say RnB - I hope you're feeling better. That must have been very alarming.

Yes Happy Birthday Monkeymargot!

and hope the London meet up goes well tomorrow.

Happy Birthday MonkeyMargot - still just about is!

LaT - What you were saying about letting/not letting babies cry... I was always v. torn about this with DS. I started getting him into a basic routine at about 3 or 4 weeks. Often no amount of feeding/comforting etc would settle him so we did plenty of 'controlled crying' which nearly killed me at the time but really did seem to sort things out and he was soon very much happier and able to settle himself. I also stuck to early afternoon naps pretty rigidly and although it reduced my social flexibility I'm so pleased I did it - DS is now three and he will still nap happily for 2 hours in the afternoon if I encourage it which is a total life-saver for me sometimes at the moment! I do sometimes wonder though whether he would have become such an insatiable thumb-sucker if we hadn't left him to cry at times. Hmmm...

Scary stuff R&B. Fingers crossed that it's all ok.

Mampam - 'D'P and I have actually been sharing a bed for the past week or so as we have been decorating the spare room. Perhaps this is why he's really irritating me again! I'm also quite concerned about losing the other room to the baby. Think I'll just end up sharing with her
Goodname - I want a WP or at least a very LP not an AP who is a SP to boot!! I am v. positive on those rare occasions that he is inoffensive-smelling but it appears to have little impact. He says all men are like that. How would he know???

Happy 'Belated' Birthday MonkeyMargot

I don't think I've ever read a baby book. Perhaps I need to but what's always put me off is a couple of my friends who rigidly stuck to and hung off every word their baby books said. It used to make me want to shake them and say "don't you have any clues/ideas of your own?".

Here I am laying wide awake again. Doesn't help that DH and I had a HUGE row earlier on. He's being a real twt. He got really shitty with me because I asked him where my pyjamas were .......so que a massive row, I'm an ungrateful bitch bla bla bla.
I told him I was fed up with him making promises that he just keeps breaking ie he keeps promising to give me a massage but never does.
So later I fall fast asleep and am awoken to him massaging my legs . 10/10 for effort (only cos he knows he's in the doghouse) but I just wanted to scream at him "fck off and leave me alone". I mean who the hell would start massaging someone's legs when they are asleep? Especially when he knows how little sleep I get. Didn't say anything though cos I probably would have been accused of being an ungrateful bitch again