December 08 - a few babies under the tree still need unwrapping!

[EffiePerine]

New thread ladies. I have a feeling I will be talking to myself a lot

[LadyThompson]

ZJ - cross posted with your amazing birth story. I enoyed reading it hugely so thanks for setting it down. I agree with PD, I will be sad when the last one is finished. But hey - your DH sounds like a real cracker and such an amazing support for you. And that registrar needs to go on a basic psychology course Well, it was me (and possibly others) who didn't connect with LO at first so I am glad I owned up. I think your positivity about the birth really shines through. You are a lot braver than me as well - a tear scared me a lot more than major surgery, which is probably not very rational!

[kmp1]

cat throw a wipe over it with one hand and wipe with another in the other hand -- we have the same thing going on here!

[waitinggirl]

hello - thanks for the advice - everything seems better in the morning, though. but terrified of the cycle repeating itself tonight.

just like you to know, i am sitting here in the sitting room with dh, dd and parents in law who look like they are not going to move off the sofa for the REST OF THE DAY - they have brought the papers and think it is appropriate to sit and watch dd sleeoping and have us wait on them.

or i could do a tap dance, 6 days after my d-section???

mil's first words on seeing a GORGEOUS photo of dh doing skin to skin with his newborn dd "you're smothering her"

mil's excuse to not do anything in the kitchen "well, i didn't know where anything went, so i thought i would leave it to you"

my mood is jovial. will keep you updated.

ladyt - will investigate those dummies - i tried with the one from teh steriliser yesterday but made myself cry trying to shove a piece of plastic into dd's mouth.

right, off to do that tap dance!

[kmp1]

ladyt - asked dh - he thinks 6 months would be fine but will ask at my 6 week check - i'm 34 now, and also got preg fast so hope that happens again, but won't get hopes up! You don't look 36! My mum can't believe i'm thinking about 2nd baby so soon, but must say my CS experience was quite nice thankfully,and i'd really like to have 2 kids close in age, but def want my waist line back first!
Well i must get out of the house - i'm just moping now about the family all leaving! Luckily have new family of my own to get me through!

[poisondwarf]

kmp on the breastfeeding/pregnancy thing, it certainly is possible - there were quite a few mums still breastfeeding on here a few months ago (including me) and there is one mum who may even be tandem feeding now (can't quite remember who off the top of my head). I was in the same boat as you when I had DS and was slightly worried that my periods wouldn't come back for ages because of bf and then it would take ages to get pregnant again. In the end my period came back when DS was about 9 months old (it can come back any time but 9 months seems to be quite common) and I got pregnant when he was 11 months old. He was always a round-the-clock feeder, and my periods returned when he started to go longer periods without feeding at night - if you have a LO who feeds less frequently or sleeps through the night early I think your periods may be likely to return earlier. You don't necessarily have to have had a period though, but it's unlikely (and I suppose it depends on how often you have sex). If you're exclusively breastfeeding and not using any dummies or teats then breastfeeding is supposedly as reliable as other forms of contraceptive for the first 6 months. FWIW I took the view that my body knew best when it was ready for pregnancy again, so tried not to worry about it too much despite my age (I was 37 when I had DS).

[traceface]

kmp - my mw said you can get pregnant when breast feeding because you ovulate 2 weeks before your period, so if you never know when that first period will be you don't know if it's 2 weeks before - if you see what I mean!

waiting girl - sorry things are so tough. My dd2 has been doing a similar thing. We have given her a dummy which she chomps on with gusto! It helps her settle but only if she's tired and full-tummied. If she's still actually hungry she spits it straight out and yells! I've also had her laid across my knees on her tummy because this seems to help her. I slept her on her tummy one night, which worked, but she wouldn't do that last night! Last night we took her out of her Moses Basket and put her in the big cot on her back in her own room, and she settled there! STill woke for her 2 hourly feeds but she did sleep in between most of them. Our house is tiny upstairs so with the 2 doors open it's like having her in our room anyway and I can still even hear her breathing, so I'm not worried about her being too far away. We also put her in a gro-bag last night, so not sure what helped, but something did.Or it was just a fluke!!!

She is currently having her longest ever sleep - nearly 4 hours (in a bouncy chair) which is very frustrating as it is day time and I have to be awake playing with dd1!

[SummerLightning]

morning all, a better night for me DS only woke up and halfheartedly fed from 2 am to 4am so not as bad.
Also my boobs were absolutely ROCK HARD at 2am when he woke up which is not normal for me (he had last had a short feed at 11pm) so perhaps all this mammoth feeding is to increase his supply in the night and it has worked?? pixsix he is only 7 days old so I was thinking that it shouldn't be growth spurt already but perhaps I am/was not making enough milk anyway. MIL says I am not making enough milk and should give him formula! hmmm

waitinggirl I have a similarish situation in that DS doesn't get mad angry but he is feeding feeding feeding in the night and despite the fact that anyone in the world would think he had got enough milk signs are still that he wants more. E.g. goes on breast and nothing comes out and he gets angry so suggests that a dummy would not really cut it.
These are things I have been suggested/thought of some of which are probably bollocks:
Position that I am feeding him in: MIL says that I am not feeding him upright enough, maybe she has a point, but still cannot help being irritated as DH listens to her and keeps nagging me!! After c-section I was feeding him pretty much on my back and so it did sound like he was taking in a lot of air and obviously fighting against gravity to feed. And maybe this is what contributes to burping and bringing stuff back up. just a thought as I know you had a c-section too so you may be doing the same. Especiallly in the night as I can doze easily in that position while feeding. I am now trying to feed sitting up and with his body lower than his head. Would also be interested to know others opinions on this, ie whether it can make a difference? DH was trying to make me feed him in the rugby hold position with him under my arm and I don't think he liked it as he was feeding fro only about 5 mins at a go rather than 20.
My friend suggested to me that I might be changing boob too often and that you should let them feed for 20-25 mins on one boob before changing so they get the hind milk. I was aware of this but I am not sure I was giving him quite this amount of time. I think that your boobs will start to create more milk if they are totally drained often so if this wasn't happening maybe I just wasn't making enough milk?

Re your inlaws . that is terrible!! You shouldn't really be doing anything in the kitchen I know I am not!! My MIL helped DH make dinner for me last night. I suspect she may have been more trouble than she was worth though for him . He said "Mum's a worse sous chef than you!", which means she questions every ingredient that goes in and the quantities thereof! And she does get stressed that she doesn't know where anything in the kitchen is but at least she tries!

zj - strip guess who? The mind boggles! . Thanks for the birth story, can relate to the obsession they seem to have with putting you on that sodding drip! And my c/s was for dropping h/r of the little one as well so sounds similar.
I was monitored though but they did say I could be active and didn't make me stay on the bed?? The monitors are a PITA though.

[jumpjockey]

Happy New Year everyone!

firstly congrats effie on your lovely boy, a gorgeous name and a new year baby

ZJ thanks so much for your story, sounds like a real rollercoaster and what a star your DH was - bless him for mistaking ears for shoulders

re public bf-ing, I've done it several times now to avoid screaming baby disasters - including one on the District line! I find wearing a cardy really helps as I can put it over her head once she's on. BUT the whole layering thing doesn't really work for me, I can't whop one out in a vest top I've got a few tops from mothercare and they're absolutely rubbish, they say "ideal for discreet feeding", how they work is there's a kind of 'bib' of fabric as an underlayer that's meant to cover your tum while you feed and you hoick the top layer up to get boob access - but of course this also pulls up the under-bib so you may as well just be wearing a normal tshirt. Am actually quite cross about this, I spent about £30 on ugly tops that are no better than existing clothes. Mothercare, bunch of arse frankly. I really don't want to be stuck in ugly clothes for the next 6 months.

Anyway - rant over. Hatty/ arti we've been co-sleeping from prtty much day 1, simply because it works much better for night feeds - she's fairly good attaching herself and settling back to sleep, whereas when I had the whole rigmarole of find horseshoe cushion, rearrange pillows etc she got angry having to wait, and would very rarely settle back to sleep, cue me or DH pacing the living room for an hour trying to pesuade her to stop crying... This way she just falls asleep at the boob (bad jj, making a rod for my own back ) and we get to stay in bed. She doesn't get winded but instead generally has a mammoth farting sesh at about 7am.

Massive pots of sympathy to mibbes, kmp, verso (I can't believe your mother, tell her to get off her bum and take the baby while you sleep!!!), kayz etc who are having difficult nights and feeling permanently attached at the boob. dd is going through a very fussy few days at the moment having been quite nice last week. Annoyingly she napped for 2 hours while we had visitors and then again for another hour when we went to a friends for quick NY celebration (one glass of fizz and then left as they all settled down for dinner... ), they all said 'gosh what an absolute angel'.

Hah! It's just a front! We came home and she cried pretty much solidly from 10-2.30 only stopping to feed (or suck on a finger while being rocked). I marked the new year with a baby attached to one boob and the other one leaking down my front, trying to eat my dinner out of a bowl with a spoon .
I ended up sleeping on the sofa with her on towels on the baby bath so DH could get some sleep... went back to bed at 6, she wanted feeding, fell asleep on the boob then woke up again at 8 for more [sigh]. And DH goes back to work tomorrow, so nobody to pass her to when she's screaming in the day . She's currently asleep in the sling over my PJs so one the one hand I really want her to sleep for a couple of hours, on the other it would be nice to be able to get showered and dressed before it gets dark outside

It's so hard to read her signals - we seem to miss the 4 second window in which she's saying 'put me down for a sleep' and she goes direct to over-tired and crying, and from that to 'feed me again'... Apparently one of the signals for feed me (turning to suck on any arm, limb or object within reach) is very similar to one of the sleepy signals (turning the head away and nuzzling into your body/a blanket) so our default is boob, but in fact she's often probably just tired and we miss the moment. I was recommended a book called The social baby which is meant to be about how to read your newborn's body language, but have ended up feeling massively dis=spirited rather than encouraged. It's made up of photos of babies giving signals to their parents, but all these babies seem to be able to find their fists to suck on (at 10 days?!!!) and then settle themselves. What about the babies who have no idea where their hands are yet - like most of them? The ones who don't just go straight off to sleep when you stroke their hair and put them down in a darkened room? [sob]

One thing she does that I don't yet understand - after a feed she'll often stick her tongue out gently a lot of times - not hungrily, just sort of investigating the air. Does anyone know what this means?

WG re dummies, we've often popped one in when she's sleepy and wants something to suck on. Saves being completely stuck with both hands on baby - so you can at least drink a cup of tea... Once they work out where their hands are they can start sucking their thumb etc and you can stop the dummy. It's interesting though that it seems totally acceptable to stick a finger in yous baby's mouth for them to suck, whereas putting in a dummy is frowned on - surely it's very much the same kind of thing?

This parenting thing, it's bloody hard isn't it?! Why didn't anyone tell us...

[waitinggirl]

traceface and summerlightning - thanks so much - it is really great to hear that we are not alone - will think about those positions and possibly moving her into different baskets/cribs/cots.

our dd will be one week old in 2.5 hours! will do the tap dance in her honour!

[jumpjockey]

Bliemy that post took me ages to write, x posted wiht loads of people!

WG I have to say the same to you as verso, tell your ILs to get off their arses and help out! When DH's parents were here they were with us for 2 days (staying in a hotel but came over in the morning and stayed til evening) their sole practical contribution was that MIL cooked a pot of stew. Apart from that, they did nothing. No washing up, no helping with laundry, just held dd and said oh look she's really hungry, isn't she hungry, poor thing she's starving - well give her to me then! I suppose DH didn't help much in that there were a lot of boring domestic tasks that needed doing that his dad could have helped with (moving lots of stuff out of dd's room, putting the bins out etc...) but he kept saying "no he's too old, I'll do it later" so by the time they left we had more stuff to do not less.

[artichokes]

Happy New Year.

Effie - Congratulations! Lovely name and a lovely date for a bithday.

Zoe - thanks for your story. I too lvoe hearing all the details of our different experiences.

LadyT - If its a winter balck tie wedding that starts at 4pm then black is fine. I actually have a copy of DeBrett's etiquette guide so can look up the old-school rules if you like!

KMP, LadyT and other London ladies - I would be up for a meet soon.

After writing my post about BFing yesterday I woke in the night realsing it was really insensitively worded. It made it sound like I think FF is a bad choice and that is not what I think at all. I am obsessed with exclusive breastfeeding because my DD had a terrible allergy to cow's milk and anaphalactic allergy runs in our family so in our particular case exclusive breastfeeding might have certain benefits. I did not mean that it should be everybody's choice. I worried about how insensitive I had been all through the 4am feed...

Summer - I too have worried that DD gets more windy when I feed her while nearly lying down (which I do in the night). Last night I tried to sit up properly for the feed but I am not sure it helped at all. Re switching boobs - TikTok, the BF guru on MN, told me that we should offer both breasts at each feed but not worry if the 2nd breast is hardly touched. Move to the second breast when your baby seems bored of the first. The rugby hold does not work for me either - I find the best hold is tummy to tummy and making sure that DD is straight (i.e. her bottom is not lower than her head).

Our nights are OK. It seems DD sleeps from 11 to 3 or 4am but she is hard to settle after that feed. It takes about 2 hours as she seems to get bad trapped wind. She doesn't scream but she wants holding upright. She is never like that in the day. Any tips?

I can't beleive some of you are thinking of TTC again already. I would love a 3rd LO but I am not at all sure about a 3rd pregnancy. The sickness and exhaustion are still very fresh in my mind. They were very hard with 1 toddler to care for but with 2??? Maybe we will become the Jolie-Pitts of west London and adopt a hoard instead!

Baby crying so better go. She just manaed a 3 hour nap in her moses basket so the house is acutally clean and tidy .

[poisondwarf]

pixsix I second all the suggestions about layered clothing for bf in public - have never tried special breastfeeding clothes, but find that the baby covers up the front of the tummy anyway (and cardie covers side views). People tend not to notice and even when they do they don't tend to react negatively (there's a really nice thread in the breastfeeding section for people who have never had negative comments whilst bf in public - worth a look if you haven't seen it). I've only had positive comments myself.

It does get so much easier when they have bigger mouths and more muscle control, but in the meantime why not find a local bf drop-in where you can go and breastfeed in semi-public, meet other mums in the same position and perhaps pick up a few tips? Also I found places like Mothercare good for the first few months - public but not too public.

It might take a while to build your confidence but it's so worth it if you can get past the self-consciousness - I barely left the house for months with DS, one of the reasons being that it was so difficult to feed in public (less for reasons of modesty than because I was generally screaming in agony through each feed though). It's so limiting and not good for your state of mind or your physical recovery. I found that once breastfeeding became easy it was actually quite a liberating and even enjoyable experience to be able to breastfeed in public.

[kayzr]

Congrats Effie He has a lovely name,

Why do so many of us seem to have babies that have wind problems, feeding problems or just won't settle during the night? It would be so much easier if they had these problems during the day!

We are defintly(sp) having a 3rd lo but we won't start ttc until 2010. I wouldn't mind being due in the summer as we have a birthday in March and one in December.

I have cleaned the kitchen today. I never got that nesting feeling while I was pregnant so maybe I have it now. I want to clean, tidy and organise everything.

[traceface]

dh has taken dd1 out for a walk and I'm too much of a wuss to go out in the cold. Bad me. And I just ate loads of Smarties that DD1 got from Santa. Very bad me.

Re BF in public - when Lucy was tiny we went to ikea, stopped and fed her in the cafe, then carried on round, but she was still hungry, so I fed her as I walked! No-one seemed to even notice - she was so little (prem) and it reallt just looked like I was cradling her!
I'm finding life up tops (t-shirts, jumpers) much easier than button down ones, because with button down ones I expose everything to everyone but lifting up I can be discreet, with the help of my jacket/ muslin to hide any spare tyres flesh.

[kmp1]

Thanks for all the input regarding BF and getting pregnant again - I'm a little confused with your situation though Poison do you mean that your periods came back at 9 months but you were still partially BF then?
Arti def up to meet up when things settle and routine kicks in a little - I think you and Ladyt are closest to me? Also anyone heard from Penny99?

[poisondwarf]

kmp yes I was still breastfeeding when DS was 9 months and my periods came back (only stopped about 4 months ago when DS was 17m and I was 6 months pg). DS was on solids by 9 months but was still breastfeeding a lot - can't remember exactly how much but it was probably 8-10 feeds a day at a guess, including at least one night feed.

[poisondwarf]

Right, I've had a look and there's been quite a baby boom since I was last on properly so congrats to indith, reban, Disenchanted, lowrib (nice to see you back and sorry to hear about your crappy experience at the Homerton), our lovely Christmas mums Bisou, SL and wg, hatty (so pleased you got your VBAC), Kimberley, simmo, IceCube and Twiga. Welcome to all your little ones and hope you're all enjoying it so far - thanks for sharing your birth stories with us as well. Hope I haven't missed anyone.

I am also up for meeting for a coffee, as long as everyone promises not to turn up looking all lithe and glamorous (Spanx are banned) - can do local (North/East London) or Central London but will pop down to Clapham or somewhere if that's what's easier for most of us.

I see Turnip has not posted today - could BabyTurnip be on his or her way?

[poisondwarf]

oh just read my emails from 2 days ago and BabyTurnip is indeed on his or her way. Can't wait to hear the news...

[CatDean]

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[artichokes]

Cat - I avoid eating very spicey foods as they do seem to induce baby wind. However, I eat and drink everything else I feel like. I have to admit to having had a glass of wne most nights recently too.

KMP - My periods came back 8 months post natally when I was still regularly breast feeding. However, one of my closest friends got pregnant when her DS was 4 months old and exclusively breastfed. She was very shocked as she assumed that exclusive BF gave her complete contraception because she has no periods. She ended up with a 13 months age gap which was a bit of a struggle at first but is lovely now.

[kmp1]

cat i've got all the same probs as you - ds falls asleep (as i type) just 10 mins into feed and i spend the next 10-15 mins jiggling him to keep him awake - not sure how much he's really getting. my dh also back to work on Monday and i'm worried about getting really depressed now that the family have all gone home and the house is empty...
arti i def have the odd glass of wine or 2 at night though always after i feed him and then pray he doesn't need another feed for at least 3 hours (but not always the case) I'm wondering if my cups of coffee are the reason for so much wind? thanks for the info about periods / conception etc. I'm not sure what i'll do but not planning on bf after 3-6 months at latest so hoping periods will resume at 6 months or earlier. I would like to try and conceive again around then. Guess it's a lot of case by case so I will keep it in mind that it can happen regardless and speak to the GP at my check up.

[VersOComeAllYeFaithful]

Have just (illicitly) driven my car! I was checking it for next week in high anticipation of being given the all-clear to drive and discovered that the battery was flat. So after a jump start of course I had to drive it for 30 mins . It felt fantastic! FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!

Also Mum eventually watched DD2 while I had one hour of perfect, wonderful, sleep . Still dreading the night ahead but at least feel I can crawl through it.

IKEA is v baby-friendly - though trace you sound v accomplished to feed on the move! They have a (tiny) special area in the cafe for breastfeeding - good for practicing the in-public feeding for those who are shy.

pd "lithe" and "glamorous"?!!! Pardon? Eh?! Never knew what those words meant before I had two babies, let alone after!

wg although I feel for you hugely, your post so made me chuckle - especially the "my mood is jovial" bit. Keep us posted.

sl on breastfeeding position - I always try to make sure DD2 has her body in a straight line with her head and isn't twisting her head to the side. I haven't thought consciously about her head being higher than her body but it feels natural to hold her in that position. Apart from these odd nights she doesn't get much wind so I think it works for her. Also, I've never used a clock to time amounts per side or anything. I let her stay on the first side for as long as she wants and then switch. HTH

[lal07]

zj thanks for your birth story. So glad it worked out ok and you're so positive about it - think that's half the battle. And MW sounds excellent. I can't remember who it was who said that someone should publish a book of birth stories - but I think it would be so useful. Such different experiences.

Cat we used to put the new nappy over DS while we cleaned him up. Seemed to work - and they do stop spraying so erratically after a while (first act of DS's life was to pee on DH - then feed - then vomit - we thought maybe there were some ancient roman genes coming through). In terms of diet whilst BF I'm not eating cabbage type veg at the moment - think it does make a difference - but some people say is complete old wives tale.

Kmp you definitely can get pregnant whilst BF -and quite early. My NCT teacher's horror story of choice was of a woman she'd had in a class who had twins - and then got pregnant with triplets almost straight away. They had 5 children under 1. .

Completely empathise with worrying about BF in public. Took me quite a while to get used to it last time. But in reality no one really looks and head obscures quite a lot. Possible to be too cocky though. I mentioned that when I went for the interview to be a trustee I sprayed milk all over the place. I had a very clever concealed feeding dress on from isabeloliver and had attached DD but wasn't paying enough attention - leant forward to make a point - her head bobbed off and arc of milk goes over boardroom table. Thankfully they ignored, but i then had to casually wipe up with napkins while trying to nod earnestly at points they were making. Mortifying.

If you're in central London John Lewis, Mothercare and Selfridges all have feeding rooms - I used to try and make sure I could get to one of these when DS was really small and taking hours over feeds.

Would definitely be up for meeting up again. Especially before end Jan because I can probably leave DS with DH. Crossing fingers for good nights for everyone...

[kmp1]

oh my gosh! 5 kids! on the bf in public thing - i use my "bump band" a lot still as it covers any exposed tummy skin and then just wear a stretchy top i can pull up. I make sure i'm in a quiet area though if i'm in a cafe etc. the thought of it absolutely made my skin crawl when i was pregnant, but putting it into practise out of necessity, i have realised it's not as bad as predicted. I'm thinking of getting one of those slings which they can feed while in it?? Anyone have these? Thoughts? Oh and meetup and being glamorous - i would welcome a "not having to make an effort" type rule! Won't be a problem!

[CatDean]

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