Due April 2009 - Farewell nausea and all things ghastly, our boobs and bumps are growing vastly.

[PuzzleRocks]

Hey guys, how are you all.
I'm feeling better about things again, it just gets to me every now and then.
Mum felt the baby kick last night!!!
Up until then I hadn't even had any strong kicks, only wriggles. It was lovely, such a strong kick.
Sorry to bring up something we've already talked about but Oh my God, what a dream I had last night! Talk about erotic!
Was about a guy I went to college with, we had a wee fling. This was years ago but he's a bit of a hunk so I'm glad he was in the dream.
The only thing is, when I wake up there's nobody to take out the horny thoughts on......

walks away mumbling about the price of batteries]]]]]]]

will try that again!
walks away mumbling about the price of batteries

Ha ha ha - well tristaleejac having a DP around doesn't necessarily mean you get any. Last night DH went to bed at 9:30, so I scampered straight up after him but he fell straight to sleep!

@ Tristaleejac

Gemzooks, is it more common in Holland?

tristleejac, also love your story! Those weird and wonderful pregnancy dreams..

Puzzlerocks, yes, they're mad keen on homebirths here, around 30% have it at home, and they strongly encourage it. They ask you to decide in labour (!) with the result that they get you to hang on and on until it's too late and you have it at home. At 37 weeks you get your bed raised up on special stands and a slightly grim homebirth kit delivered and Bob's your uncle. From what I gather, the midwife comes to check you but only stays with you after you reach 7 centimetres dilated, so I'm quite nervous about that, as I would ideally like someone with me from more like 2 cm!

wow Gemzooks - it took me about 20 hours to get to 7cm with DD but once I got there everything sped up dramatically.

How far are you from hospital if you do decide you want to go in?

Hello PuzzleRocks. First birth involved an unnecessary transfer to hospital because the midwife chickened out for no good reason, silly sausage, and latter two were home water births.

My sister tried a homebirth for her second after my positive experiences and she thought it was more than satisfactory as well.

I would heartily recommend it because I actually think it hurt a lot less than going into hospital, and also I got a nasty hospital acquired infection the first time around which needed lots of antibiotics.

One factor in me deciding to have babies at home is proximity to a decent hospital though - I have always been within 30 mins by ambulance of somewhere that could give me an emergency CS if necessary. If I lived in the middle of nowhere I might be a bit more nervous.

If you have any questions, I am happy to try to help.

So boffinmum would you say childbirth gets easier with 'practice' or was it the location, or the water?

I had a water birth with DD and will frankly be gutted if I get to the hospital and there are no pools available. The moment I got in there it all got so much easier.

Thanks BM. The hospital is less than 10 minutes away. I'm really excited about the prospect of a homebirth. I've been looking at some info on hypnobirthng. Has anyone tried this before?

Gemzooks, interesting, they don't use special stands for beds here.

PuzzleRocks, as I recall, you just get a biggish padded brown paper bag dropped off by the midwife at 37 weeks with various things in like inco pads, kits for dealing with the umbilical cord and so on. Midwife has gas and air machine and resuscitation equipment in her car when she arrives for the birth. We provided a couple of waterproof sheets, lots of pillows, and hired a TENS machine and birthing pool (you can buy them more easily now). We also needed a seive (don't ask) and the midwife had a dinky long armed mirror I think she had made herself, to be able to observe proceedings underwater to her satisfaction, plus the usual midwife's bag of goodies (fetal heartrate monitor etc).

For the most recent home birth, done on the NHS, three midwives came - one came for the mum, one for the baby and also because she'd never done a water birth before and needed to practice, and a student came along for the experience. They mainly sat on the sofa, being jolly, and drinking tea and eating biscuits while we set up everything. There was a nice atmosphere, about a stressful as setting up for a family barbecque.

Then I started yelling my head off (you know how it is) about how I couldn't possibly be expected to put myself through this yet again, yada, yada, and all hands were on deck instantly, because of course shouting your head off about the total impossibility of birth often means it's transition time.

I basically did the birth myself (eg catching baby, sorting him out and so on) with the midwife just watching from by the pool to make sure everything was going OK, and eventually produced a nine pounder. Then the midwife told me "Well done, he actually came out with his hand by his head, that must have been hard!" Luckily she didn't tell me this at the time or I might have panicked. I did think the pushing was quite heavy going compared to the previous one. We were both quite knackered by the time he was born and he looked quite purple for a bit compared to what the others had looked like. But he was fine, of course.

It took about three hours or so from start to finish and was generally quite laid back and efficient. They looked after me very well after the birth as well and I was more than happy with every aspect of my care. I think being at home meant I could do with a very small amount of very professional, very focused care, leading to a good outcome without too much disruption to the family as a whole. It helps that my midwife is a big home birth fan and the hospital encourage it as well.

Hope that helps.

A friend of mine did hypnobirthing and had a home birth (in water) with her first. She is due again a few weeks before all of us and thinks she needs a hypno refresher course if she is going to do it at home again but hasn't made up her mind yet. She thinks she might like to be nearer the 'hard drugs' if the going gets tough.

Lulu, I'd be interested to hear how she gets on.

So boffinmum does it mean your other kids stay at home while you give birth?

I'll let you know Puzzlerocks -she's due in March

hospital is 10 mins away, we're in the centre of Amsterdam so there are a few to choose from.

Re hypnobirth, in last pg I bought the book and listened to the CD. I think you would have to really commit to it and practise for it to work. I was a bit sceptical and could just not get into any 'zone' in the event. I found that the pain put me outside any state of mind and I just suffered physically like an animal does, just existing inside the pain, and my brain was otherwise completely switched off. Once the pain was over, I was fine again!

I found other tricks helped more like breathing, TENS, or having songs on the iPod and just trying to get to the end of the verse, counting down the seconds till contraction would be over. At the later stage, roaring and singing Russian marching songs 'helped' (too embarassed to go back to the same hospital after that one). It was so painful I just couldn't think what else to do but roar on a kind of low note, and asked DH to roar with me, bless him, he did! but I could still see the humour in the situation, kind of!

BUT think if you were really committed to hypno, it could definitely work, I think going to an actual class might be better. Also with second baby I feel totally different and much more zen, it's not so overwhelming as the first time (we'll see!)

Some cross posts here but I will answer LuluBai. A lot of this is my personal philosophy about birth and it's very nice to have the opportunity to put it into words, actually - very therapeutic! Thanks in advance for listening and all that.

I have been thinking about this very question quite a bit recently, after No 3 being the hardest. My theory is that birth can get a bit easier with practice, because you push in a more efficient way, and possibly keep calmer generally.

But if I was going to be really honest, I think a big factor in successful births is the size and position of the baby in relation to your pelvis, which changes with every baby.

So many smug mums who boast about not having pain relief and doing it quickly are probably just the beneficiaries of good biological architecture in the first place. This is what the experience of my second birth was like, but I secretly think that a lot of chiropractic in the lead up to the birth helped the natural processes along, and that I am not a supermum, although a good birth like that can feel really empowering and I got a buzz out of having done it 'well'.

On the other hand, if you are in labour for 24-36 hours, really suffering, hospital is probably the place to be because it may be that the baby is just too big or too uncomfortably placed for nature to do its job.

With this baby I know I am starting from behind because my pelvis is a mess at the moment, so I am now having as much chiropractic as possible with someone who treats a lot of pregnant women, to optimise the way my joints behave, and I am going to make sure I have a water pool on hand because I think this helps the mother and baby find a really good position to help the process along, eg floating like a frog, which is hard to do on dry land!!

I get very bothered by the Whipps Cross Hospital programme at the moment because practically every birth I see on there involves mothers lying down on a bed constricting their pelvis and not using gravity to get the baby out. You need every millimetre of pelvis you can get to 'do' birth vaginally, so I don't understand why they even have beds in delivery rooms these days, as they have known about this for decades now.

I have been re-reading the Optimal Foetal Positioning stuff in the light of this and I am feeling very evangelical at the moment about it as a result.

So in summary, yes, I think births can get easier as you get more knowledgable about what works for your body shape, but also it can help if you get yourself in good shape physically to start with as well, at least a few weeks before the birth.

Hope this is not too long a post for everyone!

PS to Lulu (not wanting to monopolise thread much longer) - I kick the rest of the family out apart from DH because you need to be able to concentrate and be the centre of attention at all times. But I know other people like to have them there. I keep DH for pool assembly and moral comfort purposes!!

My sister had a water birth in hospital so i'm familiar with the sieve concept.

yeah - tis not pretty a water birth!

and thanks Boffinmum - no doubt will be picking your brain a lot more oveer the coming months

Hi, can I join you? I've been putting it off because I had a MMC 4 weeks before I fell pg with this lo. I'm due on the 27th April and have a ds 4 and dd 2. Have just started to fell the baby move which is reassuring.

Welcome longlegted.

Mar
25 Mar : Summerbaby
25 Mar : Jumbs: DS 15 months
28 Mar : AlexandraPeppernose, DC no 3
29 Mar : Gemzooks: DS 1.9 then 2 m/cs, age 32, live in Holland
29 Mar : LittleMyDancing, DS 2.4 born on Easter Sunday
30 Mar : BabyBolat: First Timer
31 Mar : Cosmo: 1st timer

Apr

01 Apr : Rachelinscotland: DD 2 years 10 months, and DS 18 months
01 Apr : Chickenbalti: DS 4 years DD 17 months
02 Apr : BoffinMum
02 Apr : MathsMummy27: DD 2years 10 months
03 Apr : skiingone: DC1
03 Apr : nzbabies: DS 21 months
03 Apr : purlease: 1 m/c, 1 DD 3 years
03 Apr : Kalikaroo (28), 1st timer, lives in Scandinavia (but too shy to say where!)
04 Apr : mizzannie: first timer
04 Apr : Mumacita: first time and terrified/thrilled/teary
04 Apr : babypringle: 1 DS 2yrs 1 month
06 Apr : ToastnHoney: first timer
06 Apr : Diddle: DS1 2yrs, DS2 10months 2mc's
07 Apr : babwsbach: DC2
07 Apr : Bethdivine: DS 18mo
07 Apr : TT3: 1 DS 2(?) years
08 Apr : LuLuBai: 1 DD born 02 Apr 07
08 Apr : Pinkdolly: (age 27) dd 6, dd 5, dd 2, 1 m/c January 08
09 Apr : Oddeyes: 1 DS 17 months
09 Apr : Nigeltuffnell
09 Apr : Soundbites(30): DD aged 18 months
09 Apr : Barbarella 1st timer, TRIPLETS
10 Apr : hopeful1
10 Apr : BinkyB(30): TWINS 1st timer, lives London
11 Apr : BellaMummy
11 Apr : mrsfossil: 1 DS 6.5
11 Apr : Dungungirl(30): 1 m/c, DS aged 3.5 years
11 Apr : Bubbaluv: 1 DS 1yo
11 Apr : SpringySunshine: 1st timer.
12 Apr : daisycat01: DS 6yrs, DS 3yrs
12 Apr : Salstars (34), 1st timer
12 Apr : Brettgirl, 1st timer
13 Apr : April2009Baby:
14 Apr : girlylala0807:
15 Apr : flyingdaisies(33): West London, 1st due 15th April.
15 Apr : claireykitten: DS 12 months
16 Apr : tristaleejac(25): 1 ds, 3 years
17 Apr : lou031205(28): DD age 2.8, DD age 1 (next week!)
17 Apr : kittydug: first timer 2 m/c's
18 Apr : mumsoon: DC1
18-19 : minouminou(37) due April 18-19 (i think). 1 DS, 22 months
18 Apr : salbysea (28) 1st timer
18 Apr : loobee: DS 22mths
19 Apr : gingersarah 1st baby
19 Apr : Kittycat8 (29) 1st timer
20 Apr : v1kk1m: 1DD 5 months
20 Apr : MegBusset: DS 18mo
21 Apr : B52s: DS will be 2 and a quarter
21 Apr : Staryeyed
22 Apr : Glaskhamhasoneintheoven: DS- 3.5y & DD 2y
23 Apr : chloemegjess
23 Apr : katiepotatie
23 Apr : Reesie : DD 20 months
24 Apr : Surprisenumber3(32): DS1 9 DSS 9 DS2 4
24 Apr : PuzzleRocks: DD 18mths
24 Apr : Flirty: 1st baby
24 Apr : shellbaby
24 Apr : conkertree (26): DS 12 months
24 Apr : Bronze (Gawain) - 4th DC
24 Apr : Frekkles
24 Apr : EsmeWeatherwax (36) DD 17 months
25 Apr : Swaliswan: DD 17 months
25 Apr : ReallyTired
26 Apr : detoxdiva: dd 2.7yrs
26 Apr : SnoozyVic
27 Apr : Bicnod
27 Apr : Carameli
27 Apr : longlegted
27 Apr : purplemonkeydishwasher DS 3yo
28 Apr : Laulau27
29 Apr : lauralou1: 1st DC

Hello longlegted!! Welcome to our happy throng!

very interesting home birth discussions! why do some hospitals want to encourage hb and some don't? and some governments want to promote it?

and i wonder what the private sector thinks of home births - if it even offers them? presumably theyre a lot less profitable for them... can;t charge the extra for the drugs / anesthetic etc?

do consultants even do home births or is it just a midwife thing?

personally i would like as close to a home birth as poss without being at home (hence birthing centre choice). partly cos i want to be close to hosp should i need help and partly cos i like the idea of coming home to a fresh clean house with no associations of pain/stress... although sure those associations will start pretty quickly!

have been reading about natural birth vs medicalised birth - its a total minefield and v opinionated on both sides... strange how it becomes ideological, surely different strokes for different folks?? anyway blah blah hope you're all well and happy.

Hello mizzanie! I think it probably comes down to leadership issues - if you get someone at the top who has done their homework and feels on balance it is a good thing, then this is bound to trickle down throughout the hospital or PCT (probably the wrong choice of liquid metaphor given the topic, but you get my drift).

You can hire independent midwives to do home births and I did this once. She was brilliant indeed, but has since retired for various reasons, including the fact she was forced to work without indemnity cover because the Gvt is apparently trying to drum them out of existence as independent practitioners. My current NHS midwife is equally good, generous with her time, and free!

Incidentally independents are supervised by the local supervisor of midwives in each area and very tightly regulated, probably more than most doctors. It's easy to check up on them and their work just by making a phone call. Many seem to have contracts with NHS hospitals as well, and can go in with you if you have a CS to help deliver the baby in theatre and help nurse you better. I have never heard of an obstetrician doing a private home birth - I imagine they would feel uneasy without their gadgets as they mainly deal with the problem cases.

Fresh clean house sounds good but other people will clean it up for you, everyone helps out. It's quite nice and romantic looking at your house later on and thinking "my kids were born in this very room" ...

As I have banged on about earlier today (!) it really depends on so many factors whether a medicalised or 'natural' birth is best for you, but I think it's often good to have a go at home first and then pootle into hospital later if you are not happy, because you generally have an hour's notice or so of impending problems. Your midwife will be captive at home and very careful with you, so you are actually reducing the risk of disaster because of the standard of professional help available to you. Personal touch instead of machines, etc.

I wonder if the ideological battle has more to do with the general feeling amongst many that society 'owns' pregnant women and mothers, and seeks to control them wherever possible, but that might be changing perhaps.