Due June 2020: thread 6

[AndddddHerewegoagain]

Hi everyone. Hope you don't mind me setting up the new thread didn't want to run out of space on the other one!

Thanks @Gigitree!

@APD1981 you were great, well done! Glad they got perspectives from a new mum and mum to be.

Has anyone thought about what they'll do when the baby arrives in terms of visitors if some of the restrictions have been lifted? Would you let family come around straight away? I know children generally aren't as affected but surely a newborn is much more vulnerable. I wasn't sure whether to keep people away until the baby has had their injections at 8 weeks. Before that close family could come round and sit a few meters away in the garden so at least they could see the baby. Or does that just sound ridiculous? X

@cb31 I’ve been thinking about this a lot and I go back and forth.
I think I’m just going to ask the midwives before we’re discharged from hospital and see what their current advice is at the time.

@Cb31 I've also been thinking about this as
I have a feeling restrictions are going to be lifted where you can see close family in small groups. Speaking to my OH I think we've decided we are just going to let our parents round, this is first grandchild for both sets of parents who apart
From food shopping which my OH has been
Doing too they've self isolated and not been to work etc, I guess it will be judging the risks at the time, seeing if anyone is symptomatic have the been in contact etc and covering them in alcohol gel when they come in my house haha but I know il still be worried and whether I actually let them when's he's here is another matter, I'm quite a worrier. I haven't really let myself think to much about what's going on but thinking about this makes me so frustrated of how robbed we've been when experiencing the 'normal' things during pregnancy. Well done ladies we've nearly done it x

Also I have my 36 week consultant app on Monday morning, which I'm really glad about as my midwife was rude and dismissive when going through my birth plan with her! I had concerns regarding if I was to have a long labour after being induced and that if things weren't progressing I'd like a csection over instrumental birth and she basically told me no and that it's not the easy option, like I was to posh to push which was not the case! She also made out like long labours don't happen with being induced which I definitely know isn't true from friends past experience, I feel she's really out of touch with things, constantly getting my dates wrong never knowing who I am at appointments it's been frustrating!

Hearing the friends recent birth experience on here of a 40 hour labour leading to a tear and forceps that's exactly what I don't want to happen! I think I should be entitled to make that choice for myself. I understand csection is a risk and major op but I'm really against instrumental birth I feel like there's more risk of damage to both me and baby this way, it's really got in my head that I don't want it but obviously this being my first baby I have no idea how to approach this. Do you think this is fair enough for me to put forward to the consultant or should just follow midwives decision? X

@newbyxx it sounds like you're really considered your options and that should be enough. To be honest I'm of the same opinion as you. I'd rather a section than forceps I think I'd find the latter more traumatising. They can't do forceps if you don't consent to them. However quite often if they are considering forceps you'll be so far along that they have no option to section you as the baby is too far down.
I'm going to try and stay positive and active during labour and make the decision at the time as to what's safest for baby first and then me. All we can do I think.

As for visiting. My mums a nurse and best friend a GP. I asked the GPs advice as she's not biased haha, and has 2 young ones herself. She said depending on situation, if grandparents were not showing symptoms of any kind, she would have them visit for a short time, outside preferably, hand wash on entering, hand wash before baby hold, and her put on a new clean long top (on absence of a gown or apron) just before holding baby. No kisses (though you wouldn't normally advocate kissing a new born anyway). So I think situation dependant I'm going to do that. Mums going on leave around my due date so hopefully she won't be in work for a while, not that she's with covid patients but still.

Also waiting til 8 weeks vaccinations is pointless as that won't stop corona, and in "normal" times, you'd still let people meet baby before them. But that's my opinion.

Hopefully as pp says, things will have calmed and restrictions lifted so won't be breaking the law. But the risks won't have changed so will still be careful.

My mum and sister and I are having a virtual baby shower today on zoom. I know it's a bit tacky, and I wasn't planning on having a real one, but I've been low and lonely and they want to make a fuss so we're all making the same lunch and having cake, I'll have tonic water and then Prosecco and having a bit of girl time. Looking forward to it!

@newbyxx thats exactly the attitude i got when i said i wouldn't consent to an induction. Its either spontaneous or c section. The midwife and consultant were so rude to me. The consultant asked why i would put my baby at risk refusing an induction and i retorted that he's the one putting me and my baby at risk not listening to my wishes. It became a very strained appointment!!! Still no resolution currently. He also told me that inductions don't cause a long labour, or increased risk of c section/ instrumental delivery which i pointed out was not what is said on the nhs website as I had taken print outs. He wasn't very pleased that i have facts in front of me. Urgh!

If it makes anyone feel better i had forceps with first dc as he got his shoulders stuck but you could literally see the top of his head so there was only one way out at that point! And my recovery was fine.

@andddddherewegoagain
It’s no defence, but I think they push back on c-sections because it’s so costly. Which is gross but true.
My sister had a traumatic experience first time round ending in the use of forceps and despite being told by a consultant it’s likely the exact same thing would happen again, she still had to fight every person she spoke to in order to get her c-section which I think is just incredibly cruel.

@gigitree thanks for sharing the link.

@Cb31 thanks for watching! I'm really glad I did it as so many people I know have now been in touch as they didn't realise how hard I was finding it.

As for visitors when baby arrives... I think only close family (mum, sister + her family, brother) for a while. My mum has been totally isolating through all this. She gets a weekly shopping delivery and other than that has no contact with the outside world. She also has a mask. So I'll get her to handwash and wear a mask and she can hold baby. I'm more worried about her catching something off us if we've been in the hospital because she's over 70.

As for my sister and her family... sister works know a school so if she or her kids have been at schools within the 2 weeks before baby is here then it'll be a social distance view of baby in the garden. No holding. If they've not been at school then they are isolating too, so I would allow a brief hold with handwashing and masks. Same for my brother, too.

All other extended family and friends will have to peer through the patio doors I think for now. I'm actually hoping that the prospect of only being able to look through the window might deter some extended family for a while as I'd quite like some peace for a couple of weeks!

@newbyxx I had this exact conversation with my consultant yesterday as I too want to avoid forceps. She was fantastic and described different scenarios in which forceps would be used and the risks for my individual situation. She also described the risks of c section if the baby was already far down aswell and at what point it would be an either-or choice. In the end I left feeling that if baby is quite far down and doesn't need rotated, forceps (or ventouse) is probably the best choice, but should we need rotation or to go to theatre for a trial of forceps I would refuse that and opt for a section.

The good thing was that as I had a quick and fairly easy (touch wood don't want to jinx myself) birth last time she assessed my risk of needing help as very low, which has put my mind at ease. I feel as I've been on the 'high risk' pathway this time the midwives just treated me like a statistic and have the life scared out of me. Every question I asked the MW about why I was having a test/scan/drug was answered with 'because you're high risk'. The consultant explained that the high risk pathway includes everything from relatively minor previous issues to patients with really complex health issues, and that I was at the very low end of the scale with a likelihood that I will fall back into green pathway before I give birth as I have been healthy this time, all tests have come back good. After 34 weeks of worry I finally feel like I'm having a normal pregnancy!

For those talking about movements, I spoke with my consultant about this yesterday too and she said that the strength of movements can decrease in late gestation as baby hasn't got as much room to fling out a leg or arm, but that the frequency should remain the same. She also said the time of day you normally feel active movements can change if your routine has changed, as more often than not baby is quiet when we are walking/moving (we basically rock them to sleep) and more active when we are still.

Obviously if there's any difference in your normal, or if you think something might not be right you should get it checked out straight away. She advised it's much better to come in and have everything be ok than to stay at home. Her actual words were 'don't go to sleep worrying or wait and see, just give us a ring'.

I'm constantly second guessing myself as I also have quiet days and active days, it's quite stressful! I don't want to become a frequent flyer who's never away from hospital but I feel reassured after talking to her that they won't judge if I have to go back up for another trace!

I’m in agreement with all, absolutely no induction or instruments for me. Spontaneous labour and vaginal birth without intervention or section are my only options. I’ve been very clearly from the start that I won’t entertain anything else and will be getting my section date for 40+ 4 or 5 days shortly to avoid induction at 40+7 which is the normal here.

@SearchingTheSkies glad to know that you are enjoying the NCT sessions - I'm looking forward to tomorrow's session ! x

@newbyxx horrible that the midwife don't listen and explain properly I presume its your first baby too and will be the first time to experience this :( I haven't had the chance to discuss the birth plan but I too would want to avoid things like my friend had to experience 🤪

I presume most of us here will choose hospitals instead of midwife led birth centres ? I have no idea if water birth would be that good so I wouldn't need epidural ? It seems one or the other in my hospital.

I also want to ease some minds about induction. Mine lasted 14 hours from start to finish and was a gradual increase in pain. No instruments were needed and only had a small tear requiring no stitches. I wanted a natural birth this time but actually starting not to care (they wanted to induce me a week early because of gestational diabetes) and just want her out because of the hip and pelvis pain, I'm not even as far gone as you ladies (32+1) so really fed up.

@SerBrienneOfHouseTarth thanks for sharing this x it's indeed very frustrating 🤪 for me it's a learning process. He always has quiet and busy days but the day I went in for monitoring was when I didn't feel anything in that 2-3 hours. Other than that on a quieter day I could still at least get him moving. So I try to be happy with subtle but still fair frequent moves.. btw he started dancing after I had some cold watermelon yesterday and today back to his norm - big kicks and stretches since 730am 🤪

I guess I’m the odd one out in that I want to avoid a c-section wherever possible. I’m fine with being induced if necessary, although I hope I go into labour on my own. But in Korea c-sections are almost always performed under general anaesthesia and they often won’t let you see the baby until you are able to stand/walk which is usually the next day. All of that terrifies me. It’s for that reason that I am paying extra to be under the care of hypnobirthing trained midwives. Whereas it sounds like lots of U.K. hospitals are anti-caesarean, many Korean doctors favour them and even try to force them. Obviously neither way is right. I’m sorry that some of you have faced such resistance to your preferences and even felt shamed for them, that’s not right either.

I feel the same about instrumental delivery, it is the thing that scares me the most (eg the rotational forceps and thinking of potential damage from them) but I am not sure what the “cut off” point is and how you would call it in the moment? Eg it could look like everything is going ok but baby gets stuck... it’s not always possible to do a section if baby is already down the birth canal is it? I just don’t know at what point would be the time during labour to insist on a section. Maybe I should talk to midwife about it.

Although as others have said, I’ve known friends who’ve had very positive inductions and also friends who’ve had instrumental births with good recovery.

Incidentally, I also am aware that I need to let go of my forceps fear. That’s why I ended up with a 3rd degree tear the first time. I didn’t need forceps, it was just that the midwife told me baby’s heart rate was dropping and I needed to push harder “we’ve got to get this baby out”, so I took it a bit too literally and did an enormous push and she burst out all in one go, causing th big tear. That was because in my head I went “OMG I don’t want to end up needing forceps” . If I hadn’t had that fear I think I could have trusted my instincts a bit more and pushed her out more gradually. In short: fear made me less in control. Hopefully I can trust myself a bit more this time!

@umabb I have chosen midwife led birth centre, hopefully all will be well and they’ll let me try the birthing pool. The birth centre is within the hospital though, and if I ended up needing to a transfer to labour ward is only one floor down and there’s theatre right there for emergency c sections etc, and a NICU on site (hopefully won’t need it of course).

If it weren’t within the hospital I think I’d have chosen hospital as the stand alone birth centres here are all miles away if needing transferred in.

I was induced with my first, and actually, the induction process itself wasn't too bad. It did end up in drama, but not because of the induction. I was induced at 33+ due to pre-eclampsia. The decision of induction Vs section was taken jointly between the consultant and me, as examination showed my cervix was favourable. If it hadn't been, we would have just gone for a section. I had the pessary put in early afternoon, not much happened overnight, other than the pre-eclampsia getting worse and having to go on a million drips for that. I had my waters broken in the morning, and the induction drip started. Things came on fairly steadily after that, I managed with gas and air for a good while, until about 6cm I think. Then I had an epidural, whichever as great. I got as far as 8cm before we had to dash to theatre, less than 12 hours from my waters being broken, which I think was fairly good going. DS wasn't coping with labour, due to being premature, so we ended up with a crash section under GA. That is the one circumstance I want to avoid this time round.
So, in summary, the actual induction bit was fine, it was the circumstances of it that were crap!

Having said all that, I'm still choosing a repeat section over induction this time, if I need a planned delivery. That's because the conversion to section rate in a vbac induction is quite high anyway, unless you've had a previous vaginal delivery too. A tiny part of me is still holding out that I'll get to full term and have a nice spontaneous vbac though

@MissisBee I am going for ELCS and it's been approved and scheduled. Like you - a tiny part is still hoping for a straightforward spontaneous VB.

Just on inductions- I had one for my previous birth which is a small part of why I am going for section this time. Once
I got on the drip I think I was probably in labour for 12 or so hours - probably pretty normal for first time. But the pain was not a gradual build up at all. I went from bouncing on my ball a little bit sore to wild animal in
agony, terrified and out of control in an instant. Epidural took care of that when they got hold of an anaesthetist but I will never forget how dramatic it was.

Is anyone on here opting for a home birth?! In my part of the country they’re really encouraging them for low risk pregnancies but I don’t know if I could deal with the mess 😂

My induction was 50hours , 12 hours on the drip. Agree with pp! The sudden strength was a shock but I managed with no pain relief . I was writhing on the bed feeling stuck with all the monitors, it never dawned on me to ask if I could get up and move but I probably couldn’t have tbh. The worst was I was left @10cm for 2hours waiting for babies head to get low enough to push . Baby came out in a couple of pushes though resulting in a bad 2nd degree tear . Have to make my mind up on elective/induction On the 19th But like other pp small part is hoping for a natural vb!

@Juno2002 not sure what area your in but I’m pretty sure they’ve been banned at my hospital

Yes @Juno2002 and @mj2196 home births have been suspended in my area, as has the local MLU. So everyone in the local area is having to go to the hospital to give birth. The reason they gave is that with the added strain on the ambulance service they’re worried that in an emergency they wouldn’t be able to get you to the hospital in time.