June 2014: New Year, new trimester, new thread! June bugs no 7!!

[hackneybird]

Ding dong!

Bee you'll never offend me even if you tell me I'm talking shit so I wouldn't worry - I'm a wreck at the moment & I think it must be very hard feeling like a fish out of water with different 'norms' and practices & advice than where you're from.

Epidurals are known to slow things down & lead to a higher rate of other interventions. I had a back to back baby so who knows if I'd have needed help either way but I had an epidural & forceps & was prepared for emergency c sec. Also an emergency c sec is riskier than a planned.

C secs are major operations, not good for you & the NHS do all they can to keep you from requiring one. However in Asia most babies are born via c sections & they prefer the more planned nature of them which although isn't great for mothers health reduces some other risks. So I can totally get why you're finding it hard to adjust to a whole different way of thinking.

You don't have to accept any pain relief gas & air etc however you won't be allowed an epidural until you are a certain amount dilated (anyone know?) which is why it is usual to have gas & air first. My labour was 4 days long & I would only have been allowed the epidural towards the end. Most find paracetamol isn't doing it for them & open to try intermediate pain relief first, which then might be enough for them.

Chin up - everyone struggles to get their head round some parts of it all

My Asia example was because my friend's wife is Asian & found new approaches very hard not because I mistook Germany for Asia!! I'm not on the pethidine yet!! :)

Wow you ladies can talk!! I had about 2 days worth of posts to catch up on but at least it's made the last hour pass by quickly at work :)

I'm with you mitchell and really hoping that a lovely stork will fly by and deliver a lovely bouncing baby to my doorstep! Basically I am in complete denial and not even thinking about actual birth stuff yet.

Even prams are confusing me. DH has decided he really likes the mamas and papas sola which does look nice but it's because he has the attention span of a flea and it is the first one he looked at. He just point blank says bugaboo too expensive even though he probably has no idea what it even looks like. I think I will take him to look at some again.

All the info on epidurals, gas and air etc is v interesting and I will start reading up on it.

I have our NCT classes booked now, we're doing the signature course, mainly for meeting people but we're first timers too so hope it will be useful. I would like to do NHS course at hospital too so might lie about NCT based on what others have experienced.

Happy Friday all :)

Apologies if I caused you to cry BEE, not intentional!

I am having a busy Friday afternoon which is making me grumpy and I have a realisation that I don't have nearly enough hours in the day. I am watching query after query run slowly and it is not giving me the correct answers

Oh & someone did tell me I was talking shit on here recently & I genuinely don't even remember who it was because it didn't offend me in the slightest. We are dealing with highly emotionally charged topics with enormous amounts of conflicting views opinions advice etc. I might think c sections are to be avoided - someone who chose 1 might be defensive about that. I had an epidural - my MIL to this day says 'such a shame you gave in & had an epidural' - I could hear that as an attack on me but I have chosen (very generously in her particular case) to hear that as an attack on epidurals. You are guaranteed to have views that some people think are ludicrous as will I - but try to hear criticisms of medical procedures or views on medical procedures etc as exactly that - criticism of the views - not on you.

Ok sorry for bombarding the thread I'll go away now

The duration of the first and second stages of labour have only been found to be prolonged by approx 42 and 14 minutes respectively with epidurals, and for the difference in pain relief it's definitely not a thing that worries me. Having a ventouse delivery also doesn't phase me much, though I wouldn't want a forceps delivery or emergency cs. Like I said before, I will be asking what kind of epidural they offer at my hospital so I can be fully informed.

I know it's odd in the Uk to go into it already basically deciding to have an epidural, but knowing that the option is there for me is one of the only things making me not freak out about the idea of labour.

And the more I look into epidurals in the uk the more I doubt that anyone still does the full knock out single drug version, as the nhs website also has a segment on labour positions for women with epidurals and talks about how they can labour in several positions, but may need some assistance from their midwife. So epidural doesn't mean being stuck on your back. Maybe it's just that most women don't realise that? Even with an epidural, you can still kneel on the bed, lie on your side, use gravity to help move the labour along, etc.

Wispa I completely agree - & the thought of epidural option is one of main things putting me off using birth unit which is brilliant, so much nicer environment & much more set up for active birth but no doctors so no epidurals.

However there was certainly no option for me to stay active with mine I wasn't allowed in any position except back - but this was 18 months ago so I'm going to try & find out if they do the mini one like you suggested

The fact is, if you've not done it before, labour really is an unknown. It is impossible to know how you'll cope with pain, whether baby will be in a good position etc in advance. So the absolute best advice I can give to the first timers is to keep an open mind as to all forms of pain relief/intervention etc. First time round I did hypnobirthing, used a birth pool at home and was all lovely until he got stuck resulting in ambulance transfer to hospital, syntocin drip, episiotomy, epidural, ventouse. Basically everything I didn't want. But after 28 hours in labour and 6 hours pushing/him being stuck I would have consented to ANYTHING to get the bugger out!

And i know a lot of people who planned a natural birth who screamed for an epidural when the ctx ramped up. And people who coped really well without.

Second time round was a fab, very active, natural birth using TENS and gas and air despite it being started with induction and I much preferred the second. But who knows what will happen this time. Birth can be really, really unpredictable. So prepare, read around all the options and work out what you would like to happen in an ideal world but also understand that in the moment, it may be completely different.

At the end of the day - do what you want and feel comfortable with. It's not a competition and nobody hands out prizes at the end. Apart from the beautiful baby. They've all got to come out one way or another.

Wispa definitely wouldn't want to put you off opting for an epidural.
I was the same as you before I had dd and was terrified of labour and what it was going to bring and was adamant from very early on I wanted an epidural. As soon as I got to hospital in labour the first thing I said was I wanted an epidural. I had a really calm labour with the epidural and dd was very calm and laid back when born.
Although I feel with hindsight and the benefit of having a labour without that the epidural slowed it down, dd was back to back so maybe it would of taken exactly as long as it did without but would of been much more painful for me.

Bumble, most MLU are on the same floor in hospital as the mat ward, so might be possible to transfer. My only worry would be being told there's no room on the ward if I decide I want an epidural when In the MLU or showing up at the MLU to be told that the pool is being used by someone else and then there goes my only reason for preferring the MLU. I just feel like the time it would take to transfer from MLU to the ward would then put me into the position of being told that it's too late for the epidural, which would piss me off no end!

wispa does your mlu only have one pool? I think ours has pools in every room. But I know it is very new. The hospital I had DD in had only one which was lovely!

In my case I tried to lean over the bed but it made me sick. I also found have the drip in my arm meant I struggled to move much at all. The ventouse wasn't an issue as such but having a cone head baby with a massive bruise made me feel quite guilty. Plus the episiotomy which is fairly inevitable with a ventouse unfortunately. Anyway as you have said keep an open mind, I had a friend who was going to have every drug going but ended up with a 4 hour labour with only gas and air! And I wanted a natural birth and had an epidural.

I'm a little scared of pain relief because I hate the thought of losing control and being even more vulnerable. I used a tens machine for most of my labour which I loved as it had a button I could press making me think I had control!

Once in hospital I didn't have time for pain relief as he came very quickly and no one offered it! I was offered gas and air to birth the placenta but I hated it on first try. I am hoping for a natural birth again but doubt I'll be so lucky!

I wanted an all natural labour with DS, but if I found it too painful I knew my first choice would be an epidural. I'd read things about pethidine affecting the baby, so didn't want that. Epidural is safe for mum and baby, and has only a slightly increased chance of interventions. I think the fact that so many people end up with CS when having an epidural is partly due to the reasons people have them - fear of labour (which can make things more painful and distress the baby), back to back, narrow birth canals, big babies... All these things generally just mean more pain and more chance of asking for an epidural - but also perhaps a greater chance of needing an intervention.
If everyone had an epidural as standard I don't think the intervention rates would become worse, they may even improve? I have no idea though, it's just a theory.

I don't know where you are bee, not had a chance to read back that far. Have you discussed your preferences with your midwife? I had an epidural really early in labour, as I was progressing really slow with he drip, so you may be able to get one early too - especially if it's on your birth plan and you've discussed it with your midwife. I would say don't close the door on other methods though, there's sometimes a wait for the anaesthetist to come give you the epidural, so some gas and air or pethidine will help bridge the gap.

I feel awful today. Dd was sick last night and although I've not been sick I have a banging headache and feel dizzy. I feel like I've got the world's worst hangover without having drunk any alcohol.
Dh is still going to the football and I'm pissed off. I don't feel well enough to look after dd all evening. I just want to go to bed.

Wispa that is exactly how I feel re choosing between birth unit & delivery suite. But then I had pre eclampsia & was induced last time so it may end up not being my choice!

interesting topic today

Before living in the UK I had the notion that epidural was the only way. either that or nothing.
I had a very long labour and was nearly two days on paracetamol before moving to gas and air and finally epidural. I was still able to try various positions in bed and had a shower on my own about an hour or two after birth. No side effects whatsoever and I was even able to tell when a contraction was due. I think i was about 5cm dilated when the doctor gave the green light for an epidural.
I wouldn't mind an epidural again and I am seriously considering it if i don't have a super fast labour. I was exhausted and it really helped me not to despair. I agree the gas and air was funny, but like others said it helped me to focus on my breathing.
Overall I had a very long birth and different drugs worked for the different stages.

I think I am in complete denial about labour at the moment. For some reason the thought of being in great pain just doesn't seem daunting. Gas and air sounds good in principle, but who knows until the time comes?

Just wondering, does anyone else have hip pain at the moment?

I'm 17+2 and for the past week my left hip has been quite painful when sitting or standing. It goes away almost completely if I bring my leg up to my chest though, the closer the better.

Oh drama I feel for you. Have you got any friends close by who could maybe help you out

Sussex, no hip pain for me, but my knee has been playing up for no reason I can think of. I never have joint pain and yesterday all of a sudden I couldn't put weight on it while bending, so couldn't
Drive, walk up or down stairs, and it was horrible. Slightly better today, though. I heard that progesterone loosens joints and makes it easier for injuries to be caused.. Yet another lovely thing in pregnancy it seems

drama I'm so sorry. I'm also aloni with Ds. Dh is on a night out with friends. I would welcome some help especially on a Friday after a intensive week.

wispa same here, my joints are normally absolutely fine. Let's hope we heal up fast :)

Really interesting reading everyone's views and recollections on pain relief - I have yet to really think about what I am going to do. DS came early last time and I ended up having a long labour with an epidural at the end as I was so shattered.

Sling talk is also interesting - I had no idea there where so many out there. I have pretty much decided on an ergo and my mum had said she wants to get me something so I have earmarked that.

Felt terrible yesterday - couldn't even get out of bed let alone into work. Got there today with the idea of leaving early but was there till normal time. DS who is 6 had some how decided that he is an equal partner with me and DP in the name choosing - I don't think this is going to end well. DS has called a meeting about it for 5 pm tomorrow! WTF ?

ha ha red loving the name meeting! You must share his ideas! My DS is definitely not helping. I've heard his ideas....!

redcliff ... Any guesses on what name/s he'll put in the mix. Can't wait to hear the outcome of the meeting.

Marlena Don't worry, anything will set me off these days - to be honest, I've been stuck at home for 12 weeks now resting and having little contact with the outside world and if anything it's made my mental health worse instead of better.

I panic at any hint of disagreement and having annoyed someone.