Rats Successfully Smacked, the 'No Brookers' uneventful pregnancy and pain free birth thread :)

[MeconiumHappens]

Hello :)

I wanted to keep my CB digital but after a day it disappeared! I was actually a bit upset.

I used up all my spare OPKs between weeks 4-7 as well as I kept wanting to 'check'!

jenfraggle - 9 weeks is nothing. After 9 months maybe he has a point...

I second fishcake's advice. Get some boxsets to watch for those long hours on the sofa feeding. Somehow we missed the West Wing first time round so have been working our way through them for the last year or so.

Is everyone here planning on breastfeeding? I am, but I was amazed at how many people on my old ante-natal thread had given up by 6 weeks or so. This worries me - I really want to breastfeed but I'm scared it will all go pear-shaped! Those of you who have done it already, was it painful and hard work to begin with?

I took a photo of my CB digi as I knew it would disappear after 24 hours

Dumbledore I am planning to breastfeed, but I'm not worrying about how long for. I'll just do it for as long as I can. If that's 6 days, 6 weeks or 6 months so be it. I'd like to go for at least 6 months but my experience last time has made my feelings on it a bit more relaxed. I stopped completely at 4 weeks with DS after he was hospitalised twice due to weight loss and dehydration. I was feeding, feeding and feeding but it soon became clear I wasn't producing anywhere near enough milk. After he was hospitalised the first time at 1 week old, I was encouraged to keep trying so I did. But after the second time a week later I was in pieces and advised to introduce formula. I've never seen a baby guzzle down a bottle so quickly so there was no going back for me after that. I don't feel bad about it because I know that I really did give everything to try and make it work. I was told that sometimes the body can go into some kind of shock after a traumatic birth and milk production doesn't get going properly. Hopefully I won't have that problem this time, but if it does happen again I know the baby will be fine with formula. DS is now a solid, healthy little boy who's rarely ill. I did the best I could and that's all anyone can do.

fishcake glad you had a lovely time at your sister's and your DD was an angel.

I'm excited for your scan on Friday pomme

I did bf DS exclusively for 6 mths until we started weaning, then I started dropping the odd feed here and there and gradually gave up by about 9 months.

I will give you my honest experience, but I will warn you that I think we had a relatively hard time of it and I think a lot of people get the hang of it a lot more easily.

DS had quite a bad tongue tie when he was born and this meant he could't latch on properly. We struggled to get going for a whole host of reasons - I think the tongue tie was a big part of it, although we never realised he had it until we had left hospital (had we realised in hospital I think they could have corrected it for us there and then without needing to have a later referral). Also though he was v jaundiced and therefore v sleepy and I think that made it harder for him too.

The result was that it was really painful for us when we got going - and I did struggle a lot with it. His tongue tie wasn't snipped until he was 8 weeks and after that things definitely improved. I got mastitis at about 6 weeks I think, and that was most likely because of his poor latching position.

They say it takes 6 weeks to establish bf and I would certainly say that was true from my nct mums. There was another friend's DS with a tongue tie and they were snipped about the same time, and we both commented about 6 weeks after they were snipped that we felt as if we'd got the hang of it. The actual feeding bit once we got going wasn't too bad, it was the 'latching on' bit that we struggled with. And DS struggled to stay latched on with his tongue tie so was a bit of a pain.

This time I am absolutely checking for a tongue tie before we leave! It only takes a second to fix but obv you have to wait for an appt if you go via a GP referral.

Anyway, I would say that I had quite a hard time of it and you can persevere if you really want to in most cases. I was very lucky that I had my nct mums (and we were/are a really close group of friends) and we all bf so went through it together, and I went to a bf support group locally which was enormously supportive too.

I never found a hugely comfortable position to feed ds apart from in one chair (!) but I think this was because of my boobages being so big that whereas most people seemed to sort of hold the baby up to them, i was sort of holding ds out in front of me to get to my boobs (iyswim) and that was a bit of a pain (and ultimately a big part of the reason I started to give up from about 6-9 months). Also he used to feed for a long time in one go so it was pretty uncomfortable when we were out to find a comfy position.

Anyway, the long and short of it is, that I definitely hope to feed again and I am confident that without a tongue tie it will be a lot easier. My concern this time is entertaining DS while I bf the baby but I figure this is what cBeebies was invented for?

I think about 6 weeks is a really common amount of time to bf for (and I think there is a lot of stuff (how accurate I'm not sure) that says the most benefit is from the first 6 weeks? Overall I think bf was a lot less 'hassle' than bottles and formula etc, you just had to plan ahead as to where you might be when they might want a feed as you couldn't necessarily do it 'anywhere' as easily as with a bottle.

Scarlet - that's my feelings on bf too - the only reason i persevered was because DS seemed to be putting on so much weight. But I'm going to give it a go this time - definitely want to try and just see how long it goes for.

I think the whole bf / bottle debate can get very contentious but I'm not sure there is a clear winner actually - I think different things suit different people. My sister was bottle fed as that was the 'done' thing, and I was bf, but I don't think there are any significant differences between us.

it is hard work at first too but one of the most important things is to have confidence in your body's ability - lots of people seem to question what you're doing and make you worry. also v important is to know where to get help (local help, mumsnet boards, helplines) if you do have problems.

somewhere like www.kellymom.com is great for reading about what is normal/to be expected.

my confidence would really have been knocked by my in-laws constantly going on about whether it was normal for DS to feed so much. it does seem constant at first but it does gradually get better! we ended up carrying on for nearly 2 years.

sorry for that total blether, you hear so many horror stories, but once we got going it was good for us.

i was a wee bit sore at first, but that was mostly because DS had a tongue tie so his latch wasn't too good.

i quite liked Bf as i am lazy and found washing bottles when i expressed at work an extreme effort!

Other support places - I think the nct do a bf support line which you don't have to be a member or anything to use, and the La Leche League too. Plus as Jaggy says MN, local support groups etc.

Interestingly I didn't always find my HV to be that helpful. Well, my HV was, but there was another HV at the clinic who made me cry more than once about it all - but she made me feel I was doing a terrible job on all counts somehow (and then I'd talk to my hv and she was totally supportive! Can't believe they were doing the same job and talking about the same parent / child combo )

But I think too as long as you're happy with what you decide to do in the end, then don't feel bad - whichever one you decide there will be disapproving looks from other people etc!

Thank you for your stories, Scarlet, Biscuits and Jaggy. How do you tell if the baby has a tongue-tie?

Scarlet, I am a bit worried that having an ELCS will do something to my milk supply and knock the whole thing off. I know I had milk the last time - obviously don't know if it was enough or not - but that was after a vaginal birth at 41+3, not an ELCS at probably 37 weeks. Sorry to hear about what must have been a horrible time for you - glad it got sorted by formula! I shall try to adopt your attitude and just do the best I can and not beat myself up if it doesn't work.

I do think I'll get lots of help and support from my mum, MIL and stepmother - they all BF themselves, so at least I shouldn't get hassled about it. Mum managed to BF despite having an EMCS, twins who were in NICU and who didn't come home for 5 weeks, although she was sent home much earlier. She expressed to begin with so we could have colostrum, which the midwives gave to all the babies on the ward, not just us - can you imagine that happening nowadays? She and the hospital did mixed feeding between them, and before we were discharged she spent a week back in with us to make sure BF was established before they let her take us home. The most hassle I'll get from her will be being advised to top up with formula if I think Bean is still hungry. She did say it didn't take long before she ditched the formula and she BF for a year. And MIL made SIL's life a misery because SIL didn't want to breastfeed at all, so hopefully I will be golden girl for doing it.

Breastfeedings fab. Hard at first, use the magic Lansinoh every time, I'd say it was fine within a month- as in no discomfort and much more relaxed about it. It's lovely!!! I'm still feeding dd, as is bartlet and jaggy.

First day at work. I'm so out of touch... Dd had me up most of the night and I've been sick here twice and am so tired I'm barely functioning. Just trying to catch up on emails. Not a good start. And WHY am I on here sneakily?!

I bf dd for 6/7 weeks but with a lot of expressed milk in bottles in that time and the odd bottle of formula from about 3 weeks.

She was born with ventouse and forceps with a gash on her head and lumps of damaged tissue in her cheeks so sucking/latching on was an issue. We perserved but by the time we got to what I think was a growth spurt at 3 weeks I was already a bit wrung out by it all.

My mum tried to bf but never really got on with it and MIL never tried at all with either of her sons so I had very little knowledge/real support (although my mum tried). MIL gave me some really dud advice about winding, foods I could eat when bf and sleeping as well. I did try to go to bf support places but found it hard to open up once there.

The other BIG thing was that we had planned way too much post birth including moving house. Dh's work then went mental when he went back after 2 weeks paternity and he was working 14 hour days. So I spent a lot of time on my own organising a house move with a newborn. In the end something had to go and it was the bf.

The annoying thing was that friends who were also struggling with bf but perserved found it all came right at 8 weeks or so. So then they had it easier whilst I was faffing with bottles!

So my lessons are - make lots of time for it. Don't listen to everyone and be gentle with yourself. I really hope to bf for longer this time.

Oh goodness yes Dream - use Lansinoh EVERY time to prevent everything getting sore! I didn't learn that one until too late :( Don't bother with other nipple creams - splash out on Lansinoh - it's expensive but worth it and (unlike a lot of others) you don't have to take wipe it away before you can feed so can just get straight in there.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=tongue+tied+baby&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1664&bih=865&tbm=isch&tbnid=G5Rfy1dVkd2D1M:&imgrefurl=www.tonguetie.co.uk/&docid=RiAJegMu12GaFM&imgurl=www.tonguetie.co.uk/images/Baby-tongue-tie-3.jpg&w=283&h=217&ei=yaSeTs63E8npOe6PwNMJ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=358&vpy=168&dur=742&hovh=173&hovw=226&tx=150&ty=148&sig=117436349687585683604&page=1&tbnh=150&tbnw=202&start=0&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Here is a pic of a tongue tie - MW / HV should be able to spot it.

Another thing that we didn't do properly was the skin to skin time. We were told at nct to do skin to skin straight after birth, but I was whisked away to surgery and DH 'left holding the baby'. Apparently this is one of the easiest ways to start feeding as they will root around and latch on by themselves given enough time and cuddling etc. However, what someone told me months later (and maybe I was a bit thick for not realising it at the time (I'd been through a lot!)) was that I could have gone back to that skin to skin time at any time to get it established. None of the mws in hospital (we were there for 6 days) suggested it and I really wish we'd tried it as we were sat about for ages waiting for his jaundice to go! Mind you DS was asleep most of the time so perhaps it wouldn't have made any difference)?

Easiest way to spot a tongue tie too is when they're crying!

Dumbledore I know loads of people who've had ELCS and have had no problems breastfeeding. The thing is, you just don't know how you will get on until DC arrives. You're starting with the best intentions and it sounds like you'll have fantastic support. There's no reason as yet to be worrying about whether you will be able to, won't be able to, how long for etc. Please don't be pre-empting something that hasn't happened yet and probably won't anyway. If the worst happens and you don't get on with it and you've perservered and you still don't get on with it, the baby will get it's nutrients from formula, it's not poison. If formula was really that bad it would surely only be available on prescription after you've proved to a medical professional you're unable to breastfeed.

Seriously, there's that much pressure on women about every single aspect of parenting. We all know breast is best and the fact that you are intending to do it is all you need to think about for now. Anything that may arise after you've given it a go can be addressed at that point. And remember, a massive number of people get on with it absolutely fine after maybe some initial issues.

A very wise summary Scarlet i think!

One last tip - don't start expressing too early. I started at a week old as I was so nervous about feeding in public and I don't think it helped.

scarlett - absolutely!

Okay, Lansinoh going down on shopping list! Plenty of time to try in, skin to skin, check for tongue tie. Okay! Now I am going to stop stressing about it until Bean is actually here she says with a straight face

I don't mean to imply that bottle-feeding is wrong in any way - if I can't get on with the breast I will be reaching for bottles with a sigh of relief that something else exists for hungry babies! Think of the days when there was no such thing as formula and babies had to like it or lump it with the breastmilk, or else try goat's milk or something. I don't mean to offend anyone and I hope I haven't!

I am also scared of the health visitor. I met one at ante-natal classes in Jan and she seemed like a total b*tch! Hopefully I won't get her - she seemed to really resent having to turn up for ante-natal class, and her advice was all centred around cot death and breastfeeding, and it really boiled down to 'you will get a leaflet about cot death in the hospital. Do what it says, and don't use crib bumpers'. I can't remember the breastfeeding part so clearly, but both DH and I went away hoping against hope that we never saw her again.

It sounds as if dream, jaggy and I are all feeding dream's DD, but I assure you that's not the case!

BFing was really, really hard initially. DS had a tongue tie, I had mastitis and a mangled nipple, he didn't put on weight, so he had formula or EBM top ups for a few weeks while we got the tongue tie snipped. We had skin to skin initially and he still didn't feed, so we spent most of those first few weeks in bed with DS in his nappy and me in my pants!

The local NCT BF counsellor was amazing. She is the reason DS was BF during that time and the reason he is still fed now. Now BF is the easiest thing in the world. Forget all the health benefits to you and your baby for a minute, it saves so much space and time compared to carting formula around!

There is loads of help available, but the NHS care we got wasn't fantastic, so I did need to look for it a bit more. The NCT were great at helping me and my friends through decisions about BF, FF, mixed feeding etc without ever making us feel judged.

And there are nice HVs and midwives around. If you don't like her, go to a different clinic. You'll have an official HV but you can pick which child health clinic you go to. I don't go to my nearest one with 'my' HV because the NCT lady holds her clinic at a different one, so I would see her (and have a good cry) and then have DS weighed. (Once the tongue tie was snipped, his weight shot up.)

too I breastfed DD until about a month ago when pregnancy made it too sore for me, so for a bit over two years! I never intended to do it for so long but that was just how it went for us. I still sort of miss it now- we were down to just a bedtime feed and it was a lovely, snuggly way to end the day.

I had an ELCS with DD at 37 weeks and no trouble bf, despite later finding out that the blood pressure medication I was on can affect supply. Blood loss can affect supply, I think, but an ELCS is so much more managed than a real emergency or crash section, or a bad tear, forceps etc, that I really don't think it should worry you. I think the most important thing is to make sure the midwives know what you want to do so that they can come and help you get you DC up and latched on regularly, even when they are sleepy in the first few hours after birth and you are still numb.

I definitely asked for help in hospital and I think once the midwives realised that I was keen to bf they were happy to help- I do realise this can depend on staffing in the hospital though.

The other thing that helped me in the first few weeks was having a good friend with a baby a wee bit older who also bf as she really helped to normalise it, and meant there was somone to answer my questions. The hospital ran weekly bf groups which were pretty good- we got squash and biscuits, and people were pretty friendly. They were good places to go just for a chat and there was always someone to go for coffee with. A bit like toddler group but for babies, really.

I think the main thing is not to worry about it, like the others have said. I got in a real stew about it, afraid of 'failing' but actually it was fine. In fact, it is a marvellous reason to sit cuddle the baby and not do much else! (As is bottle feeding, too). I particularly appreciated it in the early days when I was a bit mad tired and hormonal and got fed up with other people always holding my wonderful DD- it gave me the perfect reason to ask for her back! And once we got going it was really easy. And free!

Breast pads, good nursing bras and nursing vests (I got mine from mothercare I think) make it much easier in the early days.

And Lansinoh every time to begin with. Plus, it makes a marvellous cuticle and lip balm!

Meant to add, I went to a bf specific antenatal class run by the hospital that I found really helpful. It was an extra one. The standard antenatal classes told me absolutely nothing other than the standard 'breastfeeding is good'. Apparently they can't talk about formula feeding in case that is interpreted as promoting it (or so they said).

Dream how is your first day back going? Hope you aren't feeling too sick and that DD is doing ok.
I looked at DD's childminder's mega pram when I dropped her off this morning. It is a New Zealand (this one I think). She says it is ok to push, and it fits in the back of her renault scenic!

Sorry dream, it was the top one in that link.

dumbledore don't worry about what HV you'll be assigned to. In my experience they're moved around every 6 months or so anyway so you might not even see that one again anyway. In my DS's first 12 months our HV changed 3 times. As with anyone in life, you'll find some you get on with and others you don't so much. I remember the 2nd one that was assigned to us gave us completely different information from the 1st and I was left . The guidelines seem to change all the time and they have to tell you what the current ones are. I really liked the 3rd one that we had, she was a bit more old school and would give her off the record opinion as well as the official version and seemed a bit more on my wavelength. Take a bit of something from everyone, HV's, friends and family and then follow your instincts.

Jen, I'm pretty sure I have the test from dd somewhere, so that has been around for nearly 3 YEARS now. By my standards, 9 weeks isn't odd at all