How does grieving work? Does time really heal?

[bubble99]

It's been almost six months since my healthy, full-term twin son died during a botched labour. I understand the seven stages of grief and I know that the final stage is usually acceptance.

I've been rumbling along fairly well for the last six months. I have two older boys and my little surviving twin, Elijah, has kept me busy. Yesterday evening, while doing the washing-up I started to cry.....and cry.....and cry. The pain was intense. I was picturing my lost little lad's face and I kept thinking and wondering what he would have been like now, if he'd lived. He was a perfect 7lb7oz baby. Not a little scrap who would have stood no chance of survival anyway. He was a little boy who should have been. And the only reason he isn't with me is because other people didn't or couldn't do their job properly.

Has anyone else been through the grief of losing a child through negligence? I feel desperately sorry for anyone who has lost a child through miscarriage or 'natural' stillbirth, and I'm not suggesting that the pain is less acute. But I'm finding the combination of grief and anger, because he should have been born almost too much to bear.

Is this going to hit me so hard at regular intervals for months and years to come? Does the anger diminish? I can almost cope with the grief but the needlessness of his death and the anger caused, is worse.

bubble.....naff as it sounds,cliches exist for areason. I would imagine that the anger will eventually go and that the pain will eventually take a back seat,reemerging occasionally.

Wishing you peace and resolution.

Bubble I'm so sorry. A very potent mix, greif and anger. Have you been offered counselling? Do you think it might help?
It has helped me in the past but you need someone who knows what they're doing.
I think time heals, but never completely. IME the actual acute physical pain of it goes away completely, but sadness remains. It becomes more bearable, but it's a long road ahead.

Perhaps this isn't the most appropriate time to say this but I've been loving your posts lately. You can be so funny.

All the best. xx

Don't know what to say. I don't think I am able to offer any words of wisdom. Your story is the one thing on this website that brought me to complete tears, and I think of you often. I will not be the only one. If only we could bottle that cyber-love and concern and give it to you.

I lost a baby at 18 at four hours old. A needless and pointless waste of life. A long and horrid story which I won't go into. Why I mention it is that 16 years on, I am about to begin councelling sessions because I only think I am now ready to confront it and face it. I think I tucked it away so effectively and everyone just assumed I was a trooper and coping so well, and it was such a difficult time, noone else also wants to bring it to the surface either. I am dealing with anger against myself for what happened. At least the buck kind of stopped with me. I can only imagine the level of anger you would feel against those who caused Bo to die.

Anyway - I am sorry for rattling on. I guess what I wanted to say is that I don't believe time heals all wounds, merely softens it's knife edge, but I would urge you to ensure that you follow every path that might be open to you to help to reconcile as best you can this tragic chapter in your life lest it gnaw away at you and become destructive.

Much love.

Bubble, you're bound to still be feeling griefstriken. I don't know what else to say so won't but acceptance takes a long time, don't be hard on yourself.

From what I have experienced personally with grief is that sometimes it does resurface in a wave of emotions.

These waves have never been easy but they have been beneficial for me, as I have realised that it is not just emotions involved but also my mind.

I like the buddhist concept that you can ´bind the monkey´- that the mind is like a monkey moving rapidly all over the place and it helps to contemplate the monkey and be aware of it, so less swinging (emotions) takes over as clouds and waves in your life.

6 months is still an early time in grief so the anger you feel is to be expected and something you can prepare for, find avenues to channel that emotion. You seem very strong and wise of your grief process.

´Dispersed mind is also mind, just as waves rippling in water are also water. When mind has taken hold of mind, deluded mind becomes true mind.´ Thich Nhat Hanh

The journey is not back it is now and onwards with the two minds being one.

Take care, I have seen your name here on MN but did not know of your loss (((())))

When I was a student nurse, we did a lot of work on death/dying and bereavement. We studied the work of Elizabeth Kubler-Ross who identified 5 stages of grieving (either because you know you are going to die or because you have been bereaved).
She identified the stages as:
Denial - this can't happen to me
Anger - why me?
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

The stages all last different lenghts of time, probably something to do with how well prepared for the death you were (obvoiusly in your case no warning at all)

If you put her name in Google you may find something useful to you.

Sending you warm thoughts and hugs {{{{}}}}

Support Posey with her suggestion of finding out more about Elizabeth Kubler-Ross - very wise, innovative woman who gave much insight during her life on death and its associations.

{{{{{{{{{{Bubble}}}}}}}}}}

If you need a chat, just ask. Not sure I'll be any use, but loads of love as ever xxxxxxxxxxxx

Bubbble , like everyone else I have no words to convey how I feel for you. But you are doing so so well. I've told you before and I will tell you again, I admire the way you have managed and coped. That's not to say that if you feel you aren't you are failing. You are human, a warm, loving human who is trying to overcome a real trauma. However way you feel is best to deal with that is the best way IMO. As for how long? No -one can say can they? Even those who have had a similar trauma, will go about things in their own way. I hope it dosen't seem like I bang on about her too much, but when my friend died, the different ways people responded at her funeral and afterwards demonstrates completely how true this can be. Try not to have expectations of yourself sweetie. I'm so sorry this is so hard for you. xxxxx

A wise woman indeed. Like Posey, I was a student nurse, although many moons ago. The five stages (where did I get seven from??? Must be adding my own!) of grief identified by Kubler-Ross were one of the things that I learnt in theory which actually helped me in practice. I worked for The Marie Curie organisation during the early 90's, nursing terminally ill patients, many with AIDS in those dark days.

It's just so bloomin' difficult to apply the same principles and practice to myself. The MW's in the hospital did everything right (belatedly) after baby Bo died. They took photos of my twins in the same cot, so that there would be at least one photo of them together. We had a 'Bereavement Midwife' with us for a few days. I know everything that I should be doing. I've spent so much time over the years being the professional with the knowledge and experience in caring for the dying and the families of the dying.

I suspect I have a know-it-all attitude which is impeding my recovery. It is very difficult to reverse the roles. I'm going to start by looking at the photos of my lost Bo. I can't explain how much I'm dreading it. Do you remember jangus who lost her little girl Lilli-Mae about half an hour before she was due to be delivered by CS? She spent hours looking at photos of her still-born daughter, her hair, her hand and foot-prints.

I'm not that brave, or maybe I have a different/stronger sense of self-preservation. The box is there, sensitively compiled by the professionals. I know that when I open it I'll be straight back to the agony and I don't want to feel it. But I know that I have to.

Gosh Bubble, didn't mean to tell you stuff you already knew. I don't know how on earth you are feeling but run cold when I think about it. I really don't know what to say that may help you.

Sweetheart

I have done grief,not your sort of grief, but bone aching mind numbing grief.

I will spare you the in between details but here is how it goes.

1977 My Nana dies whist my GD is in hospital

1978 A mere 6 months later my GD dies of a broken heart.

We did not talk to my DD family, so I have lost all my GP's in 6 months.

December 1979 My Uncle J dies from cancer at 50

June 1980 His youngest son dies from a brain H aged 8

I post this not to try and compete, but to tell you that time does not really heal, it scabs over your brain numbing, aching raw hurt.

For a long time, and I mean a long time afterwards it does not take much to knock the scab off.

Then one day it takes a little more, and that is is effect the essence of the human condition, you adapt, you change, you move on and you never ever forget.

I am always here for you.

I may not be much help, but you are constantly in my thoughts and prayers.

LGJ

as a professional who deals with a lot of death and grief (I am a clergy person!) I can honestly say that there is no easy answer for you Bubble. I too have heard the analogy of the scar. If you take it a bit further and think that it is easy to break recently damaged skin, and the skin bleeds again...can sometimes become infected and worse....and even when it heals well and the scab is gone...there is a scar, a difference, the skin is changed and will never be the same again.

Bo- has changed you...him being a twin, I suspect will always make your grief raw- Elijah will never let you move far away from him (Bo)....in time that will become a more positive emotion but still hard- I imagine (I have limited exp of grief myself).

You will never be the same again and acceptance (stage 5) could be understood as meaning this: finding the new you, scars and all and learning to live in a new way.

Hope I am not waffling and spouting trash....

thinking of you bubble
xx

Come here Posey

You told me stuff I'd forgotten. And don't they say that nurses make the worst patients?! I'm crap at it.

It's the anger I can't deal with. I was hoping that Bo's post-mortem results would find that there was something wrong with him, that he was meant to die. How weird is that? That I wanted something to have been wrong with my baby?

I went to the boys sports-day last month with Mr Bubble and at one point he froze in his tracks. I asked him what was wrong and he pointed out a woman standing nearby. He thought it was the midwife who had ignored us when we said for the first time during that awful evening that I needed a CS. We are dealing with it in different ways but we both feel so cheated.

MGR That is a particularly awful list.

When/how should I look at the photos etc? After a bottle of wine one evening? Stone-cold at 10am? Alone? I just don't know. Mr Bubble doesn't want to see them just yet.

Bubble I don't really know. I'm not living through this. But my gut response to when is whenever you feel that you want to. Looking in the box dosen't mean you can't put it away and go back another day. I think you will know when you are ready.

oh bubble, poor poor you. I wish I had something useful to say. Are you/your DH still seeing a counsellor?

I can tell you how I would probably look at the photos, Bubble - but I can't tell you how you should.

FWIW, I wouldn't look after a bottle of wine - I'd make sure I had the place to myself for several hours (probably in the afternoon, but not sure why - perhaps so the house would be warm and full of life when people came home, rather than quiet and still sad when I went to bed), then I would take the phone off the hook, sit on the bed and open the box.

I'm not sure this is the best way for you to do it - please don't think this is an order of how to do it iyswim? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Bubble

What you need to ask yourself now, is, can you cope with that journey on your own ??

If you can, then leave them out on the side and one day, you will pick them up and you will sob your heart out, until you feel like you are about to blow your brains down your nose.

If not, you will have to clear the decks and one night,and you may have a few false starts, you will both feel empowered enough to do it.

All my love

LGJ

HM

Is right, empty the house and then refill with love and vitality.

FWIW, I wouldn't look after a bottle of wine - I'd make sure I had the place to myself for several hours (probably in the afternoon, but not sure why - perhaps so the house would be warm and full of life when people came home, rather than quiet and still sad when I went to bed), then I would take the phone off the hook, sit on the bed and open the box.

I havent had to deal with bereavment, but came very close in june and july to losing my dh. i had been preparing myself for years if truth be told, for him to die. he still could. time doesnt make things easier, it changes things. Even tho me and dh have both been preparing for 3years what may happen, it was only after he was put on the list that we could discuss things (funeral arrnagments etc). In a very obscure way, its like you looking into Bo's box. one day you feel ready, but you dont know when it will be.

good luck bubble.

xx

one day, you will just know its the right time to look at those photos.

xx

Oh, bubble.

I have no words for you but I wonder if some of this thread might be helpful - not that anybody on it has necessarily been through what you have but it shows the different ways people move on, and I think Nigella's words on this are always worth reading again.

We were also given a disc with photos. Every time I delve into one of my 'attempts at filing' boxes in our hall cupboard for an insurance doc or whatnot, it's there. It's all moved on, this grieving business. When I started nurse training you got a cup of tea, 'final effects' ie. A half-eaten packet of polos, 23p in coppers and a betting-slip. And you were lucky if you saw the right body.

I was thinking about getting togrther a baby-book for Elijah with photos etc the other day. In both of my other DS' books I've put scan photos at the beginning. I realised that Elijah's will have Bo in them.

So, so sad. This Bubble is deflating rapidly..

i cant say much more, as i have no idea on how you are feeling, but if writing it asll down on here helps, then do it.