Advice needed re return to work

[Poppy05]

Hi, You may be familiar with my current situation as I have posted on other threads, but to summarise, my mum died last November from bowel cancer. It is just me and my dad left at home now. He is 83 and has MS and other age related health problems, but can manage day to day with my help and if/when I return to work.

I have been off work (small 2 partner firm) since my mum deteriorated last October. I used the rest of my annual leave/compassionate leave, then took unpaid leave and was paid SSP for last month, although they have not asked for a sick note.

Our office manager e-mailed me late yesterday asking if I would like to return at the beginning of February and I would like some advice on how to reply and what my position is. I don’t feel at all ready to go back and don’t think this is likely to change in the next few weeks. I have been really struggling since mum’s death and my dad also being in poor health isn’t helping. I have started on anti-depressants and counselling and do not feel I could return to work until I am in a better position mentally.

I would have given my notice in at Christmas and looked for something else when I felt better. I have been in the job for 10 years and feel it may be a good time for a change, but this caused an argument with my dad. We have always had quite a difficult relationship and he is not very sympathetic to the fact that I am struggling ( I know he is too but bottles it up). I know he is concerned for my future and I know I will have to go back there/somewhere else eventually, but I don’t feel I will be ready for some time.

I was going to ask the doctor to sign me off sick when they review my medication. I understand I can receive SSP for up to 28 weeks and that the company can claim this back. The main things I would like to know are if they can dismiss me/ask me to resign even with a sick note and also, if I were to apply for other jobs later on, would companies be put off by someone having been on sick leave for a long time (I have never been on long term sick before in all the years I have been working).

Any advice would be welcome.

If I were your employer I may with your agreement refer you to Occ Health to make sure you are receiving adequate care and help and to give a estimate of how long you may be off. You can get signed off again but ultimately they do have a business to run and can't keep your job open indefinitely. It sounds like they are being supportive. It may be worth talking to them as to whether you can short term (or permanently) reduce your hours which may help with the transition back to work, your recovery and help with your dad's care. I always think in these circumstances its best to talk to your employer and be honest with them.

It's quite a complicated situation legally. Depression can amount to a disability and the employer is under a duty not to discriminate. On the other hand whilst yes, you are entitled to go on sick leave and claim SSP for up to 28 weeks, a small employer may not be able to carry on without you for that long and long term sick leave never looks good on a cv . If they dismissed you, you might be able to claim unfair dismissal but this is stressful and the procedure can take many months.

Would it be worth contacting ACAS for employment advice?

Even with a disability they can go down the route of dismissing on grounds of ill health (forgot the actual term).

They sound like they have been very supportive. It's seems a shame to continue taking their support and them leaving the job open, for you to then not return. But also you have to look after your own interests. There may come a point where they decide to put theirs first.

Also a very long absence may make it more difficult to find another job. I dont really have much advice. I recently lost my mum and its awful. You have my upmost sympathy.

I am just trying to mention things that are worth thinking about.

February is over 3 full weeks away so it is possible you may feel different by then

I would discuss with your GP and request a sick note for thd next couple of weeks and an appointment to review how you are towards the end of January

That sounds really tricky OP. What is it about going back that you’re worried about? I took 3 months off when dd1 died and thought I would never be able to go back, but once I’d been back a few weeks it was the distraction I needed. You could ask for an occupational health review and agree a phased return (short days/ hours).

But, if you ultimately decide you can’t go back I agree with the posts above.

Hi Poppy,

Could you ask to go back on a very part time basis and then build back up gradually? Hopefully then by the time you were looking for other work your absence record would be much stronger. A lot of people suggest not making big decisions for the first 12 months after such a big loss, which is also what I'm going with!

It's really hard I know. After losing my mum in September I found going back to work very difficult. But now it actually helps me in grief a tiny bit!

Good luck x

When my dad died in December 2020, my line manager said if I felt the need to, get signed off sick for as long as I needed.

Due to lockdown in January 2021 I returned to work after the Christmas holidays as I needed to be out the house.

I think if things had been different I would have gone down the sick line route for as long as I needed to.

I'd call your GP.

I went back to work 8 weeks after my husband died. Reduced hours for a couple of months.
It was hard but it gave me a reason to get up in the morning and my colleagues were great. I'm a GP so it was hard when patients either sympathised as they knew what had happened or joked about me having had a nice long holiday! I actually went back the day my 16 year old son started his higher exams in solidarity with him.

Normality can help deal with grief and antidepressants don't help...I tried them.

There's no one solution for everyone though so do what you feel right. But I do tell patients to try going back to work as it can be a turning point.

Re SSP claims for employers...not all can claim the SSP back. We can't in my practice.

Some of the advice on here is a bit out of date.

Long term 'sick leave' isn't on your CV.

New employers can no longer ask about sick leave either as it discriminated against those with disabilities.

References from previous employers these days are usually confirmation that you were employed by them from X date to Y date in the job role you specified.

@wheresmymojo

Some of the advice on here is a bit out of date.

Long term 'sick leave' isn't on your CV.

New employers can no longer ask about sick leave either as it discriminated against those with disabilities.

References from previous employers these days are usually confirmation that you were employed by them from X date to Y date in the job role you specified.

Can I ask when this changed?

Because the current guidance we have is that a new employer can ask (though its advisable not to) and the old employer can provide factual information.

The new employer, is being dicrimatory if they retract the job offer based on a disability.

Late last year one of our directors were sick then left and found it extremely difficult to find a similar level role for this reason. Because it was asked as part of the reference.

No employer can claim sick pay back. That was abolished years ago. There's been a recent exception for Covid related sick. You will be costing them £96 per week if you only receive sick pay. Being harsh you need to get back to work and resume some normality in your life. The longer you stay off the harder it will be to go back. I'm sorry your mum died

Thank you for your replies. They have already said I can go back part time if I want to. One of my main worries about going back (apart from the worry of bursting into tears/not being able to concentrate) is that my job, although quite low level, is quite pressurised with a lot of phone contact with people, who aren’t always very pleasant. I also don’t get on very well with the woman I work with. I could possibly ask to cut down on phone calls/do other work, but have a feeling it would drift back to what I am doing now due to them being very busy at the moment.

I have come close to leaving several times over the years, but suppose the longer I was there I just became afraid of change. I also worry that people will think I am a bit silly/feel resentful that they have had to cover my work for so long.

I have discussed it with my dad this afternoon and decided to e-mail the office manager back tomorrow explaining that I do not feel ready to return yet but that I am taking steps to try and help myself through counselling/seeing the GP and will ask the GP to sign me off for the time being.

I don’t know what her response will be (she is of the older generation - 65 and been there over 30 years) who thinks you should pull yourself together and get on with it.

I know they won’t let it go on forever and that I will have to make a decision eventually. I can’t afford to never work again and I know mum did not want me to give up work. I will see what she says tomorrow and take it from there.

It's obviously an over 60s thing as that's what I was trying to kindly say. I get that it's very sad (lost both parents now) but it's a fact of life that death follows and your life does have to go on. Maybe you do need to take a bit of time out but use it constructively to find a new job and then return to work with a new focus. I can see that returning to this job is possibly going to overwhelm you the first time a customer is not very nice to you.

Sorry for your loss OP. It sounds like being signed off for longer is the right thing right now. In my company (Government) you can be sacked for anything, even if covered by the DDA. As the act only asks employers to make reasonable provision - it doesn’t protect people from being sacked if their sickness is excessive. This in practice though is a lot of time off, well in excess of a year in my experience, and generally is the staff who play the system and don’t co-operate. If you’re taking a relatively short time off you should be fine. Will it put off other employers - well I’m afraid the answer to that is yes, but if you’re able to explain the reason I’m sure that would make a difference

Is there any chance you could move out and live separately from your Dad? Why are you discussing a professional decision with him? This is about your job and your life.
Have you had any counselling at all?

UPDATE - Further advice needed:-

My current situation is that I am still signed off work, as I am still struggling with everything. I had a few free counselling sessions, but I think it was too short term to do much good. I have also tried anti-depressants, which haven’t helped a great deal either. My GP says it doesn’t sound like I am ready to go back to work and thinks I should have some longer term private counselling and get my medication right before I think about this.

The problem is that I received another e-mail from our office manager last week stating that they have now been very patient and that I am now no longer eligible for sick pay, as I have been on this for 6 months. I agree that they have been patient, but believe they are wrong about the sick pay. I understand that you are entitled to this for 28 weeks and I did not go on to this until December last year, having received full pay for October and nothing for November, so I have not even had 20 weeks yet.

I haven’t replied yet as I’m not sure what to say, but no doubt she will be chasing me again this week if she does not hear anything. I asked the GP to give me a sick note to the end of April to ensure I will be paid for this month. I would like to point out the above to her, but she is obviously getting fed up now and is not someone you want to cross.

I’m also getting pressure from my dad to go back, as he is not sure we will be able to manage on just his pensions. I have a large amount in savings, but not enough to live on forever and he keeps pointing out I am not contributing towards national insurance, pensions etc.

In desperation I applied for a couple of other jobs recently and have an interview on Wednesday, but I’m not sure I have done the right thing. I don’t feel ready to go back to work anywhere at the moment, as the type of work I do is very fast paced and stressful at times. I think the GP is right in that I would be better to try and make progress with the medication and counselling first and then think about going back. Alternatively, I could look at going into a less stressful type of work/re-training, but there has to be an opportunity come up and they are likely to want experience. I could possibly gain this by volunteering somewhere for a while though.

Any advice would be welcome.

Ssp is up to 28 weeks but in your op you stated you went off in mid October. Were the initial full payments osp or discretionary as ssp may be included within tbose, so it will still be ending shortly. If you are not yet fit to return you could apply for esa/uc. Looking for alternative work when your gp says you are unfit seems a huge risk.

@LIZS
I got full pay for October - I worked the first 2 weeks, took the third week as annual leave and assume they paid me the last week as compassionate leave. My mum died early November and I got nothing for November (not sure why). They then put me on to SSP in December and I have been on it since then.

My GP didn’t actually say I was unfit, she asked me if I felt I was fit to start work again as it didn’t sound like the medication was having much effect and I said I was still struggling, but I explained all the above to her and she agreed she would give me a sick note to the end of the month and then review it.

I’m just not sure whether my employer is right about the sick pay.

I’m not sure if I would be entitled to other benefits due to the amount I have in savings and don’t really want to go down that route, but I thought as I didn’t go on to SSP until December I should be entitled to this until the end of June?

Have you asked for a breakdown of your pay since October?

@LIZS
They have been sending me my pay slips every month so I can see I did not go on to SSP until December.

But any explanation about November? Try ACAS or CAB. I don't think ESA is means tested but contributions based.

Do you think you could cope returning to work on some sort of phased return? It might be that being back in a routine of working could actually be beneficial to you. If it doesn't work out there is no reason why you couldn't get signed off again. I hear that you're struggling and I do understand, my mum died very suddenly 6 months ago, but with the cost of living rising you might regret ending up with no job.
Have you emailed your employer to say you believe their calculations for ssp are incorrect?

@Galaxyrippleforever
I’m not sure they would agree to a phased return after being off for 6 months (may have done if I had gone back earlier), but they have said I can go back part time, which is what I am looking to do whether I go back there or somewhere else.

I have not replied to my employer yet as I’m not sure of the position regarding the SSP. I hoped someone on here may have knowledge of this.

@LIZS - no explanation about November. Perhaps I would be better contacting ACAS or CAB as you suggest.

Honestly, the longer you leave returning the harder it will be. I do think they've been very accommodating and you don't sound like you've kept them informed, it's always them
contacting you?

You need to return for many reasons, normality, financial, future NI contributions etc.

I'm not convinced the reason for your not returning to work is due to losing your mother? I think it's a bit if a red herring, or the final straw? It is to do with not really enjoying your job. So that needs to be dealt with.