has anyone lost a brother or sister as a child ?

[MerryAnnSinglemas]

Have any others lost their brother or sister when they were a child ? Did you grieve ?
I ask because my brother died when I was 13 and he was 10 - I was reading somewhere the other day about Winston's Wish and the way children can be helped to deal with the death of a parent (also Mummy Diaries which I didn't get to see) - and this has made me think that when my brother died I didn't really deal with it at the time (didn't go to funeral/was desperate to get back to normal/didn't want anyone at school to know).

MaryAnn - it was difficult, but I am sure it happens that way more often than you would think. Also, aren't the divorce/separation stats for couples much higher if they have lost a child? Am sure this must affect families too and the way the loss of a child is dealt with.

And yes, I think you are right about your father's cousin coming to stay.

Would you ever consider asking your parents about this?

mmm, might be difficult - it's one of those unsaid things - we know what happened but I think we're afraid to delve into it...we remember his birthday and anniversary and my dad always gives my mum flowers on that day, but we never talk about what happened at the time...strange as we are a close family but I suspect there's a lot of stiff upper lip stuff going on...

I was just reading through and someone mentioned how your life is overshadowed by the wondering what might have been (or something along those lines). Over Christmas, my dad showed my 4 year old DD a photo of my half sister who died in an accident aged 12, two years before I was born. It is just so sad to think of what might have been and what was taken from my dad and the rest of us.

Oh Fio, what you said about one day being older than them...I seemed to wait with baited breath for years until I became 'older' than my sister who died at 31 (I was 19)...thought it was just me being paranoid!
And what a lot of you mentioned is so true, the death is hard to deal with on its own, but your parents never-ending grief is unbearable.
My thoughts are with all of you who have suffered/are suffering loss.

My db died when he was 24 and I was 22. I always find it hard when other people are talking about what they did as children, things from when they were growing up. I always think people find it odd if I talk of me and J as they know he is not around any more, and yet if I don't say anything when I want to it's as though he didn't exist ifkwim. It doesn't seem right not mentioning him in a conversation when it would be appropriate, but sometimes make people awkward if I do. Also, like someone said previously, if you are asked if you have any brothers or sisters, it doesn't seem right to say no, but you don't always feel up to going into it!

Also, J was my only sibling and when they are gone you realise you actually feel more alone/responsible for your parents than before, not that I appreciated this when he was alive.

Reading this back it sounds like gobledigook - but I know what I mean, .

I agree, you can never answer the 'do you have brothers and sisters' question without feeling guilty about ignoring their existance, or being honest and causing possible embarrassment. I think you have to judge each time you are asked, but I have learned that I feel better if I am honest, and there is often no need to go into detail every time. Luckily as I get older and settled, it is asked less often.

I think I might have said earlier too that it's sometimes easier not to say that you had another sibling who died because of dealing with the other person's awkwardness or embarrassment because they're not sure how to respond..also I feel funny about people feeling sorry for me,even thought it was so,so long ago now for me.
I can remember a girl at primary school who had 2 brothers with muscular dystrophy who were unlikely to live long, I think one had died, and I remember feeling very strangely about her - or differently about her - it was fear mainly. This was before my own brother became ill and died and I think it stuck with me.

Friends of ours lost a young child last week. They are actively going out into the community (church services, school services, etc) with their two remaining children and talking to people (and hugging them) making it clear to everyone that their dead child is to be talked about. I hope this is making it easier for the remaining two children, who are just taking my breath away with their grace.

I, meantime, am not behaving with any grace at all and finding it very hard to function even though I was not a really close friend. I feel rather ashamed of myself.

Bridie, I am so sorry to hear about their loss. I think sometimes it is almost easier to function (for a time at least) in the eye of the storm than to be on the edge of it. Some years ago our best friends had to phone us to let us know their baby son had died. He was very ill, but we, living hundreds of miles away, had the hope that he might somehow pull through, that they did not.
I sobbed and sobbed down the phone while they were, for the moment, calm and, as you say, dealing with it all with such grace.
Dh, the vicar and I were the only ones not crying at our stillborn son's funeral. I had one friend in particular who couldn't cope at all. Don't feel bad about your feelings, I think it's a very understandable reaction.

Thank you for that very illuminating post, Marina. You make me feel better about my feelings. I am also tired--my son has woken up in the night quite often this week as the loss of his friend has sunk in.

Thank you for sharing about your stillborn baby too--what a terrible loss.

That was what was slightly worrying me--that this family was giving US strength instead of the other way round! I'm sure in private they are shedding the tears. I hope so.

yes, very understandable reaction Bridie3...a friend of mine, not a close friend but a girl I've known since she was little,our parents being friends, had a baby who died shortly after birth..I went to the funeral with my dad and we were both very upset - I can remember the sharp intake of breath from my dad when the baby's father carried the little coffin into the church...I suppose he must have been thinking of my brother then. This death affected me deeply for ages,maybe because of my brother but also because my ds was only about 1.5 yrs old and I'd had a difficult birth too - it was all very real and raw. Still think of him on his anniversary.
Marina - probably have read before about your stillborn son, but

Thanks, MaryAnnS.

A very wonderful mumsnetter who rarely
posts wrote me a beautiful email after Maude died. She spoke of the profound grief/depression of her parents and how her own childhood, and that of her brothers and sisters, ended the day her sibling died - they went from childhood into bereavement and were never able to be children again.

I was profoundly touched by her words and have tried very hard to make sure that though we still all love and miss Maude so much, their childhood (and adolescence, respectively) continue and the sadness has little bylittle taken a place in our lives, rather than remaining the driving, all-encompassing force.

Fio, I had the basilisk stare of my mother (actually she didn't cry either, she was there out of loyalty but she felt it was self-indulgent and maudlin to have a funeral for a premature stillbirth and made her feelings clear) which made me feel I was not going to break down in front of her.
So for all sorts of reasons I utterly agree that "holding it together" for others present is a very powerful force
I was deeply touched and quite comfortable with the fact that others were crying at the funeral though, I was very grateful to them for being there and caring.
Bridie, the charity Winston's Wish may be able to help you and your son explore how he is feeling about the death of his friend.
A recurring theme in the many tales of bereavement on this thread is that as a society we are more open about grief and loss than when we were all children ourselves. That is at least something to be thankful for. My mother's almost aggressive unwillingness to mourn Tom stems from another era.

Thanks for that suggestion, marina. He seems easier about things today and has promised to go and talk to the school's listening service counsellor if he needs to.

It must be so hard to not want to wrap your other children up.

My DH's brother died when he (DH) was in the sixth form. He wanted to take a gap year in China immediately after and to their eternal credit his parents encouraged him to do so (and this was long before mobile phones and emails). TBH I would have kept him in the spare room and only let him out at lunchtime.

I know my ILs feel keenly the disruption (inadequate word) that trickles down throughout the years in many different way. DS's brother was the middle child and his parents have grandchildren who are 17-19 and our who are 4-6. His mother says that she can't help but "mourn" the grandchildren she should have had in the middle, almost phantom grandchildren in the 10-12 age range.

ggg, your post has made me realise that my parents must have done a very good job in making life normal and not suffocated by an all encompassing grief - their grief has been kept to themselves, for good or ill, but our childhood wasn't affected by it. I still believe I should have allowed myself to get it all out of my system when younger, but much less was known or talked about with regard to bereavement in those days - Winston's Wish would have been great,if it'd been around then.

Marina - Although not stillborn, I had a premature baby who died shortly after birth. My sons were 10 and 7 at the time and my mil was outraged that I wanted a funeral and for my sons to have the opportunity to attend. They did attend and they are glad they did. We do talk about it, not that there is much to talk about really, more along the lines of he would be three now or four now or I wonder what it would have been like to have another little brother, I wonder if he would have been tidy like A or messy like B. My mil never mentioned it again after the day of the funeral. In fact, on one occasion she caught me crying at the kitchen sink and asked me why I was crying. I told her I was upset about losing my baby and she said 'But that was a month ago.'

Swedes - I wonder if it's a generational thing ? when friend's baby died my grandmother was quite surprised that they were having a funeral, or at least that the funeral was quite an occassion with a lot of people/reception afterwards etc.
Or perhaps it's a fear thing - tthat it is too awful to contemplate and must be brushed away, out of mind ?

Those are the sorts of conversations we have with the dcs if they raise the matter now, swedes. As ggg has put it as beautifully as ever, it is much more remembrance and regret these days than scalding misery. But months of counselling and five years down the line, I still cannot quite forgive my mother tbh. Ds and dd (who was born after Tom) both know that the joy they bring to us has really helped us live through this and we answer their sometimes rather disconcerting questions honestly and with warmth.
My MIL, who seems to have the heart of a pickled walnut much of the time, was very good after we lost Tom and I haven't forgotten that either. She bought us his tree.

yy to fear. My counsellor helped me explore this MaryAnn. She asked me a lot about my mother's own childhood and age and of course

1. she lost her own mum young
2. she lived through WW2 as a young teenager She helped me to understand that it was paralysing dread that made mum bring the emotional shutters down

Thing is, it was not uncommon for families to have lost children in childbirth or to disease or accident. So you would think they would have had the opportunity to become expert at dealing with it - it is interesting that the reverse seems to be true. Perhaps living through a war or two meant that you just could not cope with any more sadness. It is something that has often puzzled me.