MC/D&C VETERANS PLEASE HELP EXPATINSCOTLAND! *LONG*

[expatinscotland]

K, was supposedly 8 weeks along.

Was referred to Early Pregnancy Unit at Inverclyde Royal Hospital for scan as had bad D&V bug on Monday and then spotting.

Got scan.

There's a sac but nothing in it.

This does not surprise me and tbh I am relieved because were not in a good position to have a third child.

BUT, was NEVER told, 'It's a blighted ovum'.

I had told them I came in from a rural area.

In fact, folks, I left here at 6.45AM and walked back in my front door at 12.30.

Instead, they tell me to come back on Monday for another scan 'to make sure there are no changes.'

Then I ask them about what if there are no changes?

They tell me I can have a D&C there.

I ask about anaesthetics.

They say it's under GA.

I tell them I cannot have GA because I have genetic hyperthermia - a condition which causes my core body temp to shoot up sky high and which nearly killed me in an operating threatre 11 years ago.

Hence, I have had the following: three knee surgeries including a major ligament replacement, three impacted wisdom teeth extractions, a colposcopy, a loop electroexision procedure on my cervix and a forceps delivery all under local or regional anaesthetics.

So they tell me that I'll have to go to the Royal Alexandria Hospital at Paisley for the D&C and they'll speak to the anaesthetist.

No mention of getting hold of the tablets that help you to expel an unviable pregnancy at home.

SOOOOOO, I'm supposed to go in there Monday morning and sit in a crowded waiting room full of pregnant women drinking water to fill up my bladder for them to tell me - wait, they never fing told me 'blighted ovum' - I need a D&C.

Then go to Paisley - a further 20 miles away - for a consultant to see me.

Then go BACK to Paisley for a D&C, because I can tell you right now I will gladly sit on this blighted ovum from now until the world ends before I let that consultant at Inverclyde touch me again, OR wait for a D&C in a waiting room of an antenatal unit and recover from a miscarriage whilst hearing newborn babies cry.

Has anyone been in this situation?

And if I have other options besides D&C or D&C under GA, which I would never have in a shithole like Inverclyde anyway because I'd for sure die under their incompetence.

We are furious at NHS Argyll for making an utter pisstake of maternity services for an entire, massive region of the country.

To the point where DH is looking to transfer again - to Perthsire.

Hi expat

That sounds so grim. Can you get your GP to do some of the fighting for you, so you can rest?

Hi Expat - I'd definitely complain if I were you - nothing ever gets done unless people complain. But wait until you are feeling less angry and emotional and see how things turn out. Deep breath as all this stress can't be doing you any good at all. Ask your GP, like Wellie says, to fight your corner for you and ask for second opinions, it your right after all.

It is disgraceful if you are forced to go private because of this incompetence, but you need to do what is right for you. The Southern General is an excellent hospital, although I have no experience of the obs unit there and only a few minutes up the road from Paisley. Much easier to drive to.

Hope things are better today for you xxxx

expat - when you mentioned well documented history of depression, imo this is a flag for medical people to dismiss you as crazy over emotional woman, unfortunately this is still a prevalent opinion in many circles.

I do hope you get the care and help you need and deserve, it might be useful to contact specific mental health charities to help with a future complaint although I am sure this is not really on your mind much at the moment.

Expat - posted on your other thread.

Just re-read this one. Does Paisley have an early pregnancy assessment unit? I am sure it does. Scans are done there so you don't have to be in an antenatal clinic with other women advanced in pregnancy.

Our EPAS would also have brought you back in a week because an empty sac does not necessarily mean a pregnancy that is not ongoing. Dates do not always correlate. When I had a blighted ovum (apparently that term is no longer used), I was to come back but actually started bleeding before then. Had a D&C 2 days before Christmas then.

What I am trying to say is that the management is not completely wrong but I realise you are upset by other things too.

Medical management can mean more trips to the hospital than a D&C but you should be given that option.

If you go to Paisley you will be able to speak personally to an anaesthetist.

Sorry you are going through all this.

I am so sorry expat.
I was mucked around by my hospital last week, so I do understand.
I left Kings, hoping to have a ERPC, for my missed miscarriage, at my local hospital. She ignored my notes and asked me all sorts of stupid questions.
Wasn't even offered tablets. Apparently lots of hospitals find them unreliable.
Said I had to have a sliding scale and the anaesthetist, who I waited 2 hrs to see, said that was nonsensne.
I went in at 10 am for day surgery, only to be transferrred. No one explained that I had to be done in and amongst the emergencies. Was done at 11pm.
As if the loss, and having to wait , 2 weeks for another scan, in limbo, with diabetes going mad, wasn't bad enough, I was treated like rubbish.
I have been really unwell and constipated since and look like death warmed up.

Your hospital dilema, beggars belief. But my love, support and understanding, in not dissimilar circumstances, I hope you 'receive', from my post.

Nothing practical, just plenty of sympathy Expat.

Actually, what happened to me may give you some info/help.

When I had my second miscarriage I was given three options after my second scan. I was positive of my dates but they insisted on a second scan a week after the first as the scan showed the same as yours - sac but no baby. We did try arguing but in the end conceded that they were right in their reluctance to perform a D&C which may turn into an abortion if they were not doubly certain.

As I said, three options:

• Wait it out and miscarry naturally,
• Chemical intervention (tablets) to bring on full MC, or
• D&C

We opted for the latter as we wanted it over and done with. I have no advice as to your problems with GA, but would say you should be offered the above options as a matter of course.

Hope this helps a little.

xx

Well, I've got a very large, purple bruise over the area where this joke of a consultant pressed down on my uterus, so I will be filing a formal complaint. Took photos of the area.

My GP is brilliant. First I thanked him, because I know he only sent me to that dump to save me the even lengthier journey to Paisley.

But he was appalled and spoke to the consultant OB/GYN at Paisley this afternoon. He agreed that my entire womb, Fallopian tubes and ovaries should have been scanned and that the midwife he spoke to was rather bossy.

I, too, am positive of my dates. I have always been very, very regular since I started menstruating at the age of 11.

I'm being seen at Paisley next week and we'll see how that goes. The consultant assured my GP that they could do the procedure under local anaesthetic for patients with contraindictions to GA like mine if I elect a D&C.

It's far more sensible cost-wise, anyhow. Duh.

Was just told if I started bleeding heavily to go into Paisley but if it's not excessive than just to carry on and they'd arrange a scan at a later date to ensure the products have been entirely expelled - I won't call it a pregnancy because it isn't really, just an error, like a cancer cell.

Sounds reasonable enough to me.

Still so sore it hurts to laugh.

Glad things are looking somewhat better for you. See how you get on at Paisley then you can file a complaint to Inverclyde, you'll have something to compare it with then.

I got admitted for a suspected blood clot on the lung in Feb and was horrified at the stte of the place. It was absolutely filthy. I got pu tin a ward with 3 elderly ladies and 1 of them was desperate for the loo - despite asking several passing staff - she never got help and I had to go looking for someone. The toilet was full of used bedpans and was manky - bleurgh! Thank God I got out that night. I had to bf my wee one there too - YUK.

The staff were gossiping about other staff members and patients WTF in a very derogatroy manner and they lost my bloods so had to redo them. Muddled up my DOB too - hopeless.

I have to day it is the worst hospital I have ever had the misfortune to enter and I have been in quite a few!

An old work colleague works for the NHS and gave me the info to formally complain - but we were moving and I never got around to it - after reading your story I wish I had now!

i told the GP flat out that i was not going back there ever again.

the staff were rude, dismissive, condescending, unprofessional and worst of all, incompetent - obviously.

i've seen dozens of midwives, since both my pregnancies were complicated and in the trust i was in, you just saw whoever was on shift, including in the days after birth, and never came across such an appalling standard of an excuse for care.

it was downright shameful.

and tbh, because of the atrocious state of provision of medical care in this region, we have decided not to remain in this area permenently - as we'd originally planned - and will be relocating to the East when our two years here is up.

although if i won the lotto tomorrow you wouldn't see me for dust.

Bl**dy hell expat - this is just farcical. Feel for you and glad you have the support of your gp... mine is pants!

Expat, I really feel for you. I hope things go smoothly this week. If it helps I have hear better things about the RAH than Inverclyde.

Just seen this,Expat.So sorry for what you have been through.xx

Thanks, manky.

I'm still pretty pissed off, especially after talking with an OB friend of a surgeon friend of mine in the US.

My uterus was retroverted after DD2 was born.

Well, 6 months later it still was.

I never bothered getting it checked after that.

She said I should have been scanned transvaginally at this stage - was supposedly 8 weeks.

My LMP started 26 September, but the cycles have been varying from about 24-32 days, and I've had some cycles that ran very late - like 35 days.

She also said that I should definitely had my entire womb, tubes and ovaries scanned, and had an internal exam to see if the uterus was still retroverted, as this can seriously affect what is seen on u/s.

I still feel pregnant and don't have any spotting or bleeding.

Still have diarrhea and cramps, but I also had both these whilst pregnant with teh girls (thankfully no longer have the fever/chills, though). But again, as she said, I should have had a blood test as well after having that.

I did in Edinburgh when I had a D&V bug whilst 13 weeks pregnant with DD2.

AND, I had threatened miscarriages with BOTH girls and again, had blood tests at Edinburgh Royal Infirmary.

So I feel the care was substandard to say the least.

And it's affected us so badly we'll be leaving this part of country as soon as we can - we need to save some money.

very sorry to read about this expat . Can you be referred to an early pregnancy clinic in Glasgow at one of the big teaching hospitals?

Hi expatinscotland,

I am very sorry to hear about all the problems you have had at Inverclyde. I have to agree that the staff do not instill any confidence in the women who attend there.

One problem they have is recruiting/retaining quality staff as the unit has been downgraded and the hospital itself is, in my opinion, under threat of complete closure in the not too distant future.

Not to bore you with the details but I had a d&c at Inverclyde and took days to recover physically a few years ago.

I thenhad to have another d&c for retained products at Paisley last year. The difference between the two was immense.

I was worried about the GA and was thinking of having an epidural. The anaesthatist spend ages with me going over the pros and cons of both methods and, although it was not an enjoyable experience, it was a lot better than Inverclyde.

Lastly, why should you move? Get involved, do something, kick up a stink about the way services are being allocated here. Get all your friends and neighbours involved.

Unless we do something, and I mean really, really protest, then NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde and politicians at all levels will just ride roughshod over us.

Hope this helps.

Expat, how are you now? Hope things went a bit better for you.
RAH would have been my hospital if I had stayed local and not emigrated south (acccording to my mum). The other option was the Southern.

manky, i started another thread.

it's around here somewhere.

the baby died.

and RAH wanted me to go for ERPC. on the labour unit.

i can't face that emotionally.

so i'm going to go for private care.

expat I have been treated at the RAH - not for obs/gynae but for surgical and they were amazingly good.

OTOH, dh is supposed to refer to Inverclyde form his work adn does so a little as poss as they have such a poor reputation.

But dont slate all west coast hospitals becasuse of them 0 I have been treated at the Southers, RAH and Victoria Infirmary and they were all brilliant. Inveclyde are an anomaly AFAIK.

Hope it is al over for you soon,

sorry, harrisey, i am sure there is good care to be had for most things, but this has completely and totally scarred our experience, unfortunately.

we were thinking of starting a life here, but instead we are moving back East in April come hell or high water.

i cannot for the life of me see why in the world a woman who is miscarrying should EVER be on a labour unit.

and if you read the thread, yes, this is at RAH.

my MIL had a D&C for retained placenta over 30 years ago and wasn't even on a labour or maternity ward then.

that's just ridiculous.

they made a huge hullabaloo because i didn't want to risk GA as it is not necessary - i have malignant hyperthermia, and yes, i know there are drugs to manage this, but unless absolutely necessary, which this isn't, i avoid it. i won't make apologies for being afraid to die because of this condition.

the midwife went on and on about GA, about how i'd feel the cramping and tugging and this was a 'delicate' operation. more delicate than the flippin' bone screws and staples i had hammered into my femur and tibia under spinal, or the forceps delivery and stitches i had under epidural, or the D&C for missed miscarriage and loop electroexicision procedure i had unler local? yeah, right!

then they got arsey because i can't get there for 8AM.

how is that my fault? they took all the OB/GYN services away from this entire region of the country excepting midwife led maternity units, and the ferries are now operating on winter hours.

they wanted to admit me to the labour unit straight from the EPU yesterday. without a minute to grieve before being chucked onto a ward with labouring women to fast and wait my turn and without so much as a flippin' magazine to take my mind off things.

that's so professional and sensitive, people!

so they said there was no alternative, i had to wait on the labour unit.

then their own leaflet says if you have the procedure after 4PM, a distinct possiblity with emergencies, you have to go stay in the labour unit.

i would have had far less hassle had i gone in there to have a flippin' abortion!

i'm off to the Nuffield Hospital.

sorry to rant, but i'm appalled that policies like this still exist.

i don't care if i have to mortgage whatever is left of my soul to the Devil himself to pay for private care, either.

Sorry Expat that it has been so hard for you.

I totally agree that you should not have been on a labout ward, thats terrible.

Having lived in Edinburgh for several years though, I know that it can be the same there - a friend was seperated from her baby after birth as she had an epidural go wrong and she couldnt sit up - thet couldt cope with her on the labour ward so she had to go to surgical and her husband had to look after baby and bring him in to her for feeds - totally crap! Also have had 2 friends with m/cin Edinburgh who ebded up in gynae, also one in Dundee and several in Inverness (we used to live where Inverness was our local major refereral centre).

Is your problem with the local hospitals or with the NHS? I've only ever been in hospital (apart from childbirth) with emergency conditions which noone private would touch with a bargepole (pregnant woman with recurring kidney stones anyone? Major pyelonephritis? etc etc) so have never even had the option of experiencing private care.

I hope it all goes well, I really feel for you, I've had 3 m/c myself but they all were able to happen naturally at home - even the blighted ovum diagnosed by scan happened at home before I was due to go in. I'll be thinking about you, it sounds awful. ((hugs))

ps Perthshire! Well I wouldnt want to be going to any of the hospitals there from what I have heard, esp for obs/gynae( which they keep trying to close, except for Dundee. I'm from Perth, have heard a good few stories ..... nowhere is perfect)

the local hospitals, harrisey.

until we moved here, i never had a bad experience - excepting one shite GP who's sinced retired. although my only experience of NHS has been in Edinburgh.

it wouldn't bother me so much if the hospitals where you need to go for such care had some decent flexibility in their protocols for people coming from this region, as these people here have no choice at all and are reliant on weather conditions and ferry schedules to get in.

i have only been treated at ERI for various things and not had so much damn bother.

i had threatened miscarriages with both girls, and was handled on the GYN unit, NOT a labour ward. m/c's belong on GYN units, not maternity or labour wards. i mean, DUH.

that's just taking the piss, IMO.

DD1 received excellent treatment for developmental delays in the East.

originally the move was supposed to be temporary.

we could not afford our own place in Edinburgh, as our rent was colossal.

our pals own this house and moved to Africa to work for a couple of years - they are selling up on their return and moving to the Aberfeldy area, as they are sick of the provision of healthcare out here, too, given the man has history of DVT - and they want to be where they only have to get on a road to get to hospital.

they offered it to us at next to nothing rent, allowing us to save money.

although we considered staying out here, that's a moot point now. even the money we'd save over time isn't enough to make us stay.

we're just taking what we've got saved and going when the lease is up.

DH can change jobs pretty easily and i can get working again a lot easier in the East.

once he's got the job in order, we'll just take whatever home we can rent first and go from there.

i've never gone private myself. never had the need.

but i really do now.

oh god Expat, so sorry . Thats crap.

It sounds just awful expat.

I hope the move over to Perthshire eventually goes well - Aberfeldy is lovely (My Mum got married there actually, 2nd time) and I hope that you can settle there and be happy. Personally I love living in the West of Scotland, (being from the East, actually) and since we moved to Glasgow I am happier than I have been in years. I hope that you can find a place where you are content and happy with the healthcare etc ..

Thinking of you as you go through the losss of the blighted ovum. I hope that it all goes as well as can be expected, for such an unpleasant thing.