My dad died not long ago and my mum's reaction...puzzled.

[KatyWhatsit]

I am trying to find the right things to say and to understand.

My dad died in his early 90s. They'd been married just short of 70 years.
I am dealing with my loss (and that's another issue- bit fed up with people asking how my mum is, when I've lost a parent, as if I don't matter....)

The issue where I am having to bit me tongue is this.
Their marriage was a mystery to me; they were so different. From the moment dad retired they seemed to live in separate rooms, cook their own meals a lot, and had few common interests. At 70 they had talked of divorcing but decided they couldn't afford to.

When dad became ill and mum was his main carer for 2 years, she looked after him amazingly considering her own age. She was devoted.

But it's as if all the 'downside' of their marriage didn't exist.

She has told people this has been her worst Christmas ever, yet Christmas was always a very tense time with dad around. He rarely bought her anything or put any effort into gifts. She was always upset and moan about that to me. He didn't 'do' Christmas or birthdays, never imo made her feel wanted, and at times was controlling. The list goes on. At one point I was pig in the middle, listening to their grievances about each other.

But now, it's as if all that never happened. She seems to believe the marriage was so happy yet everyone could see it wasn't. I think in their last few years together they knuckled down as they knew there was no escape, but for many years they seemed very distant.

when she talks to me about how she misses him, it seems to removed from the reality of what went on. I keep my mouth shut but I wonder why she's being selective with her memory?

My mum had same reaction, it's just easier for her to believe she didn't waste her life and remember the good bits only. It's a kind thing to do to just go along with the pretence.

KatyWhatsit my Mum also has a brother who is useless with talking about anything like this, so she couldn’t talk to him either. She got through the madness by leaning on me and my sisters (all adults by the time he died) and my Dad. We would laugh about it when it all got too mad (like when she brought the box with his ashes in to a celebratory dinner about two years after his death and put them on the table in the restaurant. I wish this wasn’t a real story.... especially as it was the first time My now DH met her 😆).

You know the saying 'Don't speak ill of the dead'? Well a lot of people REALLY believe that. Your DM probably does too. So now that your DF has died, she quite likely doesn't feel that she air any grievances about him, that she can only acknowledge the good things. If she doesn't, she believes she will be judged harshly by people (and would also judge herself harshly), and if she's Christian, that sort of behaviour would be terribly unChristian.

So where does that leave her? To leave all those negative thoughts inside her head, feeling guilty for having them, and getting distressed about pretending to everyone? Or suppressing those negative thoughts to the point where she starts to believe they never existed, that actually, he was wonderful, and she was happy, and she does miss him. That is SO much easier for her to live with, and a much more pleasant 'reality' for her to present to the world.

Eventually she really will believe it. Because not to, is too hard. And let's face it, what is there to remind her of the reality? Your DF has died....

A different situation, but it is kind of relevant I think. I kicked my ex-husband out after a good few years of being unhappy when I found out about a huge credit card bill he had run up despite having promised not to get into more debt (again). Despite all that, and despite not having been close to him for years, I still found myself missing having somebody around.

Thanks for the condolences.

I'm not 'expecting' my mum to grieve in any other way really, but maybe understand that it makes it hard for me to join in her talk about dad when it's not exactly accurate?

I have, and will, go along with her memories as she describes them.

It's just that as we've only had Christmas and she said it was her worst, then maybe when she used to moan about his lack of effort at Christmas, she wasn't really as upset as she used to make out?

I can recall her being on the phone to me- I live long distance- almost in tears or spitting venom- about how he hadn't measured up on her birthday or Christmas. Either she was exaggerating then, or she's forgotten it all now.

I don't want to come over as hard and unfeeling, it's just when it happens I am having to bite my tongue!

I also think the point about which is worse, losing a parent of a spouse, is debatable. You can always get another partner, you can never get another blood-parent.

I'm okay- I've got the age where it was long expected - but I do miss my dad.

She doesn't miss the rubbish bits she is grieving for the good bits. And there may be more than you know. Most people complain more than praise a partner.

OP, your parents marriage sounds almost identical to my own. How we live suits us both, but I am terrified of my husband dying or needing to go into a nursing home. How we live wouldn't suit many couples, but we are devoted to each other.

I presume your dad died recently if so then from my own experience when someone has recently died people only seem to remember the good times and not the bad times, but as time goes on and the grief becomes less prominent they will remember that it wasn’t always a bed of roses living with them.

Its just grief talking basically.

Condolences on your loss .
My Dgran was like this after DGdad died. I think it was a combination of guilt that they had a less than perfect marriage, a wish not to speak ill of the dead, and loneliness of missing constantly bickering with her companion of 65 years who knew her better than anyone. It also made her more fearful as I think she thought she'd be next.
She outlived him by 7 years but mentioned him every time we met.

I call it 'The Great White-Wash'. I think it's not wanting to speak ill of the dead. I bet she has those thoughts privately though. He will have left a big hole in her life, whether negative or positive and it's a big change regardless.

It's interesting, isn't it.

My mum died a few years ago, from cancer. She was in her 60s. They'd been married over 40 years, but I'd spent a large proportion of those years wondering why they stayed married and if they were going to split up.
There wasn't much overt happiness in their marriage - the odd moment, but not much. No obvious affection. They weren't vicious to each other, they didn't hate each other but there was an enormous amount of resentment, intolerance, backbiting and squabbling going on.

So yes, it was a bit of a surprise when Dad was completely heartbroken after Mum died! I'd seen more love for her in him while she was in ICU than in many years previously; I guess he'd always felt it but the irritation of living life with her had overridden it.

He doesn't eulogise about her - but he missed her dreadfully at the start. He still does, but now I think it's more about his own loneliness than missing her per se.

It's a hell of an adjustment after many years together. I think your mother is of an age where you try to only remember the good things too - "never speak ill of the dead" kind of thing - that's rather outmoded these days but she's old enough for it to have been standard.

I'm very sorry for your loss - it IS hard when no one appears to recognise your own loss and only worries about your parent.

Sorry for your loss.

Maybe she just liked to moan about him but it sounds like it was from the point of view of needing more attention from him than that she hated him. Spending the last 2 years caring for him might have brought them closer as your Dad was dependent on your Mum and maybe your Mum finally felt as close to him as she had wanted to feel all their married life.

I would also say that a husband of 70 years is as irreplaceable as a parent tbh.

It is perfectly possible to both love someone and really dislike them at the same time. Or love some bits but find daily life with them very difficult. It sounds like caring for your dad did reset the relationship in some ways- your mum couldn't be independent from him because she had to care for him. Caring for someone is an incredibly close and loving thing to do, even if it makes you want to strangle them, and I'm sure just on an everyday basis she feels lonely and missing that sense of purpose.

Be kind to yourself in all of this.

sorry for your loss

but does it really matter that shes remembering him her way-is it hurting anyone-i wasnt realy close with my mum but when she passed i felt a huge hole in my life i love remembering good times with her it makes me feel better about it

@KatyWhatsit

I am sorry you lost your dad, but you sound very judgemental.

MANY people (especially those who married pre 1980's) stay together because they are afraid to leave, they will struggle financially, they are scared of being alone, and despite maybe not having masses in common, they still have company.

Do you have any idea how desperately depressed and unhappy older people are when they are alone? Loneliness in the elderly is pandemic, and people who are in a couple are much healthier, both physically and mentally. Many couples sleep separately too, that doesn't mean they aren't happy.

They may be your parents, but it sounds like you knew very little about them.

As I said, sorry for your loss, but cut your mother some slack.

Sorry, that should say 'do you have any idea how unhappy SOME older people are when they are alone?' I get that some are OK, but many really struggle.

My dad died in his early 90s. They'd been married just short of 70 years.
I am dealing with my loss (and that's another issue- bit fed up with people asking how my mum is, when I've lost a parent, as if I don't matter....)

I'm very sorry for your loss, and it would be much kinder if people would just ask how you both (all?) are, but tbh, I'm not surprised that their sympathy is more directed at your mum.

I lost my dad when I was 22 and he was in his mid-fifties. I was obviously very upset, but I realised that my mum would be a lot more upset than I was.

I was (just about) an independent adult and I'd realised from a young age that (assuming the natural order of things) there would come a time when my parents would die and not be around any more. Granted, I had hoped that wouldn't happen for at least a couple more decades. Going on your dad's age, I'm assuming that you're well into middle age yourself?

I loved him very dearly, but he wan't my life partner, and I'd never expected to be practically or emotionally co-dependent on him once I'd grown up, in the way that my mum had. However much I wanted him, I didn't need him IYSWIM.

They certainly should have been a lot more mindful of the fact that you'd also lost your dad, but maybe they were asking from a point of practical concern after your mum, who shared most of her life with him and was to a great extent co-dependent on him, in a way that you weren't.

As PP have said, there must have been a lot of good times that they shared. It sounds like he might have been distant and not always as thoughtful as he could have been, but in no way abusive. You loved him and are very sad to have lost him, so he must have had a lot of 'lovely' in him.

Sorry got your loss.

I think your mum may be grieving for the relationship they had, along with all the flaws, as well as the relationship she feels they should have had. Grief is sometimes harder if it is full of should, would, could.

Also, once somebody dies that do for a while become the perfect person. Their flaws are forgotten and only the good bits are remembered.

Perhaps go along with her for now and adjust your repossessed as she adjusts her memories.

Responses not repossessed!

you think your mother, who must be in her 90s, is going to get another partner? You think that a dead partner can be replaced?

You are grieving yourself so I'll cut you some slack but take a listen to yourself.

(And you don't have to agree with your mother, you just have to listen and support and try to understand.)

I'm not a fan of the whole commercial 'love language' thing, but it is very true that people have different ways of giving and receiving love.

For some couples, they might not always find it the easiest thing living with each other, but the slightest thought of living without them is absolutely unbearable.

Nobody has any way of knowing exactly what attractions brought a couple together - and what bonds keep them together - apart from the couple themselves, not even their children.

OP - are you a spinster?

Just sounds like a lack of understanding / empathy for the dynamics of a long term relationship.

spinster - such a horrid word with really negative connotations.

I'm really sorry for your loss

It's so hard and complicated when someone you have a very difficult relationship with dies. This happened in a way with my grandmother, and it caused real problems in the family - my aunt and my cousins suddenly decided she was some sort of secular saint as soon as she died, while my mum was obviously very sad but still acknowledged that she was a flawed and difficult person. Listening to the eulogy at the funeral (given by the priest, but based on what my aunt had said) was bizarre - it was like listening to a talk about an absolute stranger, or like a version so distorted that it was like a joke (like there was a 'funny story' about her being so angry that she smashed a mug against a wall, told as if this was a cute quirk not borderline abusive). My aunt is still furious at my mum for not playing the 'mum was amazing' game, and mum is still quite bewildered by it. I think it's her way of grieving, though. I don't think you should challenge your mum over this, but nor do you have to join in. Nod, smile and be sympathetic - and make sure you have people that you can talk to honestly about your own feelings.

My mother is exactly like this about my dad, who died in the summer. She hated him, sniped at him constantly, belittled him and took every opportunity to point out his faults. She is completely overcome with grief and I think that a lot of it is that she's on her own now, misses dad and is just lonely, unsurprisingly after so long, but there is a lot of guilt in there too that she will never acknowledge. It's very complex.

I also feel kind of resentful that nobody ever asks how I am and it's always my mum. My dad was the only person I've ever really trusted and I miss him terribly. I think about him all the time. I totally get where you're coming from, it's not a competition and I think it's really hard when your own grief is overlooked, like your loss doesn't matter. Sometimes you just want a bit of love. . Are you coping?