Misty breeze wraps about my shoulders, thinly clad. I shiver not, despite the coolness on my skin. Comfort, I now feel. Is it you my precious Angel?

[chipmonkey]

Starting a new thread for our angel babies
Sylvie-Rose 16/8/11 to 4/10/11 too short my love, too short.

[whiteandyelloworchid]

mias mummy, do you mean, if you don't fancy something just don't do it?

thats sort of what dh said to me last night, that i need to be more selective about what i do and who i spend time with
and only do thing i really want to do

shabbs, ive never looked at it that way before, just another day, i thnk i'll try telling myself that on, when i feel myself getting all upset about christmas

thats a great idea about the stamp, perhaps i could get a feather one or start or something ? yeah i'd like to know too where you got that from

i was awake at 5a unable to get back to sleep, i nearly went to the gym for a swim, as they open at 6am but i must have fallen back asleep

[chipmonkey]

white only do what you feel able for and try to socialise with people who know how you're feeling or at least have enough imagination and empathy to support you.
My SIL ( BIL's wife) was brilliant after we lost Sylvie-Rose. She would arrive on a Saturday with Pizza and wine and listen to me whinge endlessly. She also didn't imply that I was a bit of a loon when it came to talking about white feathers and moving toys even though she may have thought it!

My other SIL on the other hand, can't open her mouth without putting her foot in it and worse, she doesn't even see that she's said or done anything wrong.

So I spend a lot more time with the former!

Expat, last year we did the tree, we did the dinner, Santa came, but to be honest, if it wasn't for the boys, we might not have bothered.
I am sort of looking forward to Christmas this year but not in the way I used to.

[whiteandyelloworchid]

thanks chip, i do feel more comfortable in small numbers so with one friend at a time, or maybe two or three at the most, when its a group thing i find it harder
i think i also just found it a long day as it was a whole day, half a day may have been easier for me.
some people i just dont talk to about ds
as they don't understand and dont help
others i do talk to

i have 2 sil, one never talks about ds or mentions him
the other one is massive gossip and it just feels like shes trying to get a load of information to gossip about me with her friends, cant explain it very well, but neither of them are helpful

both my brothers one tries to pretend nothing has happened
the other one i can talk to but i only really see him when dd is there and his dc are there so i can't really be totally open and say whatever i want iyswim

i have got closer to my mum and dad
but i cant talk to my inlaws much either

and theres some friends i can talk to and some i cant
p

[MiaAlexandrasmummy]

white I agree with your dh. Only do what you want to do for now. Doing stuff you need to do comes later - but that need should stem from you or your family, not because it is the right or polite thing or it would make others happy...

I bought the little leaf woodblock stamp at Hobbycraft. They seemed to have quite a range of different ones. Here's some which made me think of people here

a butterfly

a rose

a fairy

a daisy

There are lots of flowers, fairies and little statements, although I couldn't see a special orchid one for you white nor a rainbow for tami

chip if you have any problems about getting one, I would be only too happy to buy one and send it across to you. x

[expatinscotland]

Exactly, white, what chip and Mia said.

chip, since we're off to my family the 17th, I don't think we'll bother with a tree. My folks will have one, my sister will have one, we'd just come and see it and it would all come back to us. It's not like they won't have a fab time, they'll be taken to see Santa, my daughter to the ballet, my sister baking loads with them, crafts, etc. My sister is having a huge Xmas dinner.

[chipmonkey]

I see what you mean, and it would be miserable coming back and seeing it there. And then having to put everything away again....!

The headstone people haven't contacted me yet about the granite colour. This is going to drag out, I think.

[whiteandyelloworchid]

thanks so much guys, i think i ned to knock off the socailing for a while and be choosey about what i do or do not want to do
and if i get pushy people saying come on white i think you should come with us to xyz i will have to say thanks but i don't feel upto that at the moment, but maybe i will next time
try and be polite yet firm

thats what i'm going to try anyway

just don't know what to do about this never ending sadness, i guess i just have to try to learn to live with it, while hoping it eases with time.
try not to think about the future too much and take it a day at a time
i cant really think of any other coping mechanisiums

its so nice to have you to chat to, as hardly anyone, apart from the rare few, in rl understand even 1% of all this
i feel like as ds was a baby when he died other people consider it less important
but of course it is not to me and dh
and dd

anyway i realise im just rambling on again gonna go to the gym for a swim and to try and read my book, see if that helps clear my mind a bit

[fioled]

I believe this is where we got our stamp from. I uploaded Belle's angel that is on her headstone and they created it for me. Cost around £30 if I remember.

Reminds me I also need to email them, because the rubber is curling up off the block.

[fioled]

www.craftstampsonline.co.uk/

[whiteandyelloworchid]

oh thats a clever idea, fioled, could even get a footprint one or something
or perhaps other people might find that a bit too real in their cards etc,perhaps a feather or star would be good

[chipmonkey]

Twas the Night Before Christmas"
~ For Bereaved Parents ~

'Twas the month before Christmas and I dreaded the days, That I knew I was facing - the holiday craze. The stores were all filled with holiday lights, In hopes of drawing customers by day and by night. As others were making their holiday plans, My heart was breaking - I couldn't understand. I had lost my dear child a few years before,
And I knew what my holiday had in store.

When out of nowhere, there arose such a sound, I sprang to my feet and was looking around, Away to the window I flew like a flash, Tore open the shutters and threw up the sash The sight that I saw took my breath away, And my tears turned to smiles in the light of the day. When what to my wondering eyes should appear, But a cluster of butterflies fluttering near. With beauty and grace they performed a dance, I knew in a moment this wasn't by chance. The hope that they gave me was a sign from above, That my child was still near me and that I was loved. The message they brought was my holiday gift, And I cried when I saw them in spite of myself. As I knelt closer to get a better view, One allowed me to pet it - as if it knew - That I needed the touch of its fragile wings, To help me get through the holiday scene. In the days that followed I carried the thought, Of the message the butterflies left in my heart - That no matter what happens or what days lie ahead, Our children are with us - they're not really dead. Yes, the message of the butterflies still rings in my ears, A message of hope - a message so dear. And I imagined they sang as they flew out of sight, "To all bereaved parents - We love you tonight!"

-By Faye McCord - TCF, Jackson, MS

[chipmonkey]

And Happy birthday, Oliver xx

[MiaAlexandrasmummy]

Ah chip you always have the most magical words. Read that piece last night, and had a little weep. And yep, read it again tonight, same thing...

[chipmonkey]

[whiteandyelloworchid]

Hey guys, had a better couple of days after Sunday, not hard to improve on that I guess

Ive ordered my Christmas decoration for ds.
It's a silver star that says ds name, his dateof birth, then simply always loved, always remembered

I wanted a star.

I sort of wanted it to say in our hearts at Christmas time and always but it wouldn't fit, but I'm sure ds knows that


I was very touched as my newphew has made a lego car with ds name on it for his grave and my nieces have asked if they can take a mini Christmas tree in a pot ans decorate it with my dd. To my sons grave.

Really touched by that. They asked first aswell which is really nice and thoughtful too

[whiteandyelloworchid]

oh bloody heck, i was actually feeling ok this am, i was and am very touched my nieces and newphew

tonight we have two very good friends coming over, to get a chinese have a drink and play a board game we have got for christmas

so i was was feelign fairly good, fairly ok

i am actually sort of looking forward tonight

then today in the gym a friend comes over to me, she is a good friend but now she works almost fulltime i dont see her as much

anyway she started sayign all sorts to me, asked me how i am, i said well some days i have ok days and some days not ok days and said i found it difficult on the spa day i went on,as everyoone was sittign around chatting about all there plans and stuff and that i can feel myself feeling quiter and more withdrawn,and i find it isolating, but that some times i feel ok ish

so she told me im depressed, i said well i dont think i have clinical depression, i just think im greiving
[am now im wondering am i actually depressed?]

she said it depends on how i deal with it as to whever i will get over it or not, i said well its not really th sort of thing you ever get over, and she mumbled somehting about how you deal with it is how you cope with it

then she started saying she has a therory that i have a genetic problem, and that i cannot carry boys, and thats why my sons heart didnt form properly, plus i lost his twin in the firts trimemster and then the mc i had in aug
she said she thinks it s because they were all boys

i said well the hospital told me from the post mortom, the ds had no chromasone abnormailities, and i said surely if i have some sort of genetic problem, and my ds problmes where due to genetics wouldnt it have shown up on the post mortom and she replied i don't know

she said i should have another baby, and appreicate what i do have, it is so difficult when people tell you to do that, i replied thats what i say to myself everyday, but i still feel sad and losing ds

so know i'm wondering if i am actually depressed
and if my son died due to some sort of genetic problem

[MiaAlexandrasmummy]

white OMG, ignore, ignore, ignore that 'friend'!! So at her for you. Totally aghast at the 'wisdom' she has decided to impart. How dare she say such things to you, particularly coming from a total lack of knowledge!!

Depression is different from grieving - but no, I am not an expert either! However, I think you were very honest about how you were feeling, and it sounded totally reasonable to me.

Please don't let her stupid ideas pull you down. You are doing the best you can, and that is already a lot - and it is all you can do for the moment.

[expatinscotland]

Oh, white, that is horrid!

This is no friend. What an awful thing to say!

My mum does similar. Told me all about how the Bushes lost a child to leukaemia 60 years ago when the girl was only 4, but how she heard her son tell a friend he couldn't play that day because his mum was sad and that's when she decided to 'turn it around'. I told her to spare me the lectures and anecdotes, it's been only four fcking months since our daughter died and I'm doing the best I can to spare her two siblings grief, and that if she can't refrain from doing that, then it's best we stay at my sister's because she doesn't see the need to fcking preach to me.

I've learned to tell people who do stuff like this, 'Look, I know you're trying to help, but you aren't and you're being hurtful, so please stop right now.'

[expatinscotland]

And the whole 'get over it'. The great author Victor Hugo's eldest daughter drowned shortly after she was married, age 19. Though he was only 40 when she died and he lived till he was 83, he was very vocal about never 'getting over' his death. How little attitudes have changed in the past 160 years!

[whiteandyelloworchid]

so do you think i am depressed or just grieving.?

i seem able to function, such as make sure the hosue is tidy and theres food in and dds needs are met
i'm a sahm though so i don't have to go to work, although i do have to do the school run and mix with people there etc.
i 100% know that being able to do what i like when i like is the right thing for me at the moment,if i find a spa day a bit too much, i think i would certainly find a whole day at work toommuch, so sah is the right thing for me i think, even thpugh others have told me i need to get a job, as if thets going ot sort all my grief out

thanks for your advice, its upset me because i was actually feeling pretty ok today and shes really really pulled me right down

its so nice to have you to talk to as the first thing i thought, i must tell you guys on here and a few friends from sands that i know will understand

i think she genuinely thinks she was trying to help me, yet it just makes me feel more and more and more isolated

the isolation is one of the things i find the hardest.
and its a bit likethe whole you can feel more lonely in a crowed room than anywhere else
i feel more isolated when i'm around others, well some others

expat i get what you say the word you used preach lept off this page for me, as thats exactly what i feel it is people telling me that i nned to let ds go, to move on, get over it, etc
and then telling me to concentrate on what i do have, ffs dont these people realise we do this every single day

mias mummy, it was upsetting me the way she was acting as if she had fgured it all out as if its some sort of puzzle, when its my life, i was told by great ormond street the chance of this happening again is miniscule, yet if her theroy is right and i can't have boys, tehn that means its 50% likely not to work out of we ttc again

euurggh ive had all her comments whirling around and round my head all bloody day now.

oh she also said ive got a black hole in my heart now, and i should have another baby

shall i just never talk to her about my ds again.

what shall i do next time i see her and she asks me how i am
perhaps i should say the one thing i dont feel helps is being told what i should and shouldt do

perhaps i shold borrow that look i know your trying to help phrase,but your not

but i just dont seem to be able to stick up for myself anymore, i get trampled on, getting quieter and quieter everyday


sorry to go on about myself so much.
shes just made me all mixed up now
and now im thinking what if i can't have boys and if i get pg again and its a boy will he die

[expatinscotland]

You are grieving, white, because you have suffered the worst thing that can ever, ever befall a person, the loss of their little child.

If she starts up again, and you aren't ready to say, 'I know you're trying to help, but you're not,' then can you stretch to, 'I'd prefer not to discuss this'?

In fact, I'd avoid her from now on. Her genetics theory and telling you this to your face when a) she's not a doctor b) she's not your doctor is way, way way beyond the pale and untrue or your doctor would have told you so!

That's just stepping beyond the preaching.

And yy, I think most people, even in our own families, want to see you 'move on' so they don't have to deal with seeing you in pain or unhappy. Well, fuck 'em. Seriously.

You don't ever 'get over' this. People say this to people who are widowed, too, even after decades together. 'Oh, you'll get over it' 'Have you started dating again', 'It's time to get back out there'.

It's their problem that they're afraid of grief and death because this is our life now.

They don't want to deal with it, want me to make believe my child didn't exist or it was a long time ago so that makes it okay, then we can't be friends anymore or have a family connection.

Because you do 'move forward' every day you wake up, get your child dressed, go to teh gym, etc etc.

[chipmonkey]

Oh, white, a dhac! Just what you need!

Most people don't "get it". How could they? But most people know they don't "get it". The worst dhac's are the ones who don't get it but think they do. And impart those little nuggets of "wisdom" that have you reaching for the wine!

The thing about "not being able to carry a boy" or "not being able to carry a girl" is bolleaux! I remember one lady on another forum saying that this was true because she had friends who'd had miscarriages and that they all had all boys or all girls. At the time I had four boys and had never miscarried, my SIL had two of each and had miscarried once.

I think most of us who have lost a child would like to have another but we all know full well that one baby can't possibly replace another.

And being grateful for what you have is a nice little aphorism for people who've never lost anyone or anything. As is "dealing with it" and "getting over it". You won't get over it. You will deal with it because you have to but how and when you deal with it can only be determined by you.

white, there are some people I avoid because discussing Sylvie-Rose with them isn't an option and I don't want to not discuss her.

[chipmonkey]

Oh and we're probably all depressed because we're grieving.
I think that if I felt like this for no reason, my GP would probably prescribe AD's. And even now, I'd say my GP would prescribe ADs if I asked.
I have this idea though, that my feelings are normal for the situation and I have an idea, possibly mistaken that I will heal better ( as much as I can heal) without drugs. A bit like your Mum saying that your cut would heal better without a Band-aid because "you're letting the air at it".
But that is a totally non-medical, non-scientific opinion!

[expatinscotland]

I think the reason people are so quick to label bereaved parents as depressed and in need of ADs is because they don't want to see or deal with it, and because the reality is there is no timeline or timescale on grief. People don't like that nowadays. They like to see things tidy and neat. The death of young children doesn't fit into a box.

[expatinscotland]

'And being grateful for what you have is a nice little aphorism for people who've never lost anyone or anything.'

YY. Now you be grateful, because it's obvious you're a magnet for tragedy. Such a belittling thing to say.

I don't want another baby, can't have one anyway, but that's due to my age more than anything.