I can't bear the thought of being without my children but I seriously fear for their future

[FabIsGoingToGetFit]

They are 9 and under and I love them so much they are the reason I am still alive tbh. But we have no control over them. They used to behave for DH and not me, now they will yell and scream at both of us just as much. Today the 6 year old weed on her bedroom floor because she was put there to calm down having hit her younger brother and bent my fingers back.

I do not accept that all of what they do is normal childhood behaviour I believe this more than that. They don't care if toys are broken, they draw on door handles, walls and the table. They leave things where they fall. The would rather have no toys to play with than put a few books away, they scream and shout in our faces and slam doors. They will physically hurt each other and will hit and kick us.

If it is normal childhood behaviour (and I know no one else like this nor did I have any problems with the many children I nannied for.) how on earth can we get some order in our lives as seriously I can not take any more.

I know I am doing a crap job but I am trying so please no flaming as no one can do it more than I am to myself.

We have no control over them at all.

What are they like at school Fab?
Do they yell, get into arguments with the staff or their peers, refuse to do what's asked of them?
How are they out of the house, visiting others on playdates and the like?
Are any of them in a club, like Brownies, Beavers, a sports club that has rules?

No problems at school. The 4 year old has been in a bit of trouble but the older kids have been bothering him. No problems anywhere other than with us and sometimes the inlaws.

So the fact that they behave acceptably in other areas and with other people means that it probably is normal childhood behaviour that they have some control over, and that they are choosing to behave differently at home.
No flaming, but you've had some excellent advice here already. And it's never too late to redeem a situation with children.
Consistency with your rules.
Staying the calm adult in charge, even if you are yelled at, sworn at or otherwise targeted. That doesn't mean endless reasoning, it means you send them to their rooms, deprive them of something they like or restrict their choices in a controlled manner, rather than shouting at them, or getting into a dialogue where they will rant on at you.
Get rid of the guilt on your side, and if you do end up crying, don't let them see you do it.
Take control in a parenting sense, help them understand what is and is not OK and where the lines are drawn. Don't stop listening to them, but you and your OH make the decisions.
At the moment, I am sure you have loving, sensitive and caring children, but that's got a bit buried under their own pushing of their own wants. So you can appeal to their sense of fairness and empathy later.
It takes a lot of time, a lot of patience and a lot of stamina to keep being consistent week after week, but it gets easier the longer you can keep it up.
And post when you need people to talk to who know exactly what you mean, and how hard on the soul it is.

Lots of people have said it is normal childhood behaviour but I find it hard to believe that at times. I am only going on what I was like as a child but our experiences are at complete opposite ends of the scale.

You know that I'm Goblin Twohats, don't you?
So as a primary teacher for over two decades, I've seen children be perfectly civil and unremarkable in school, co-operative and polite.
Then at home time or during holidays, I've seen them be vile, argumentative and destructive when with their parents, and the parents looking embarrassed or getting angry.
And as a parent of two, one of whom has Asperger's, I've been a despairing, shouty parent looking on chaos and blaming myself for the sheer muddle of it all.
It truly does sound like normal behaviour, especially for empowered and confident 9 year olds. and the others are seeing the example.

Fab If you're children are good outside of the home it doesn't mean you are a bad parent it means you are a good one. Families are safe places where we all behave in ways that would be unacceptable outside (would you talk to a colleague the way you talk to your dh at times?).

The kids need somewhere safe, where they are loved unconditionally to let of steam and to practise their relationships without risk of losing them. If they are good outside then you have done a fantastic job of instilling in them the terms of society and how to behave.

I am slightly that I want to take in and embrace your praise.

I have a secret respect that my kids are brave enough to behave the way they do as I was too scared to speak as a child nev4er mind back chat. I love the fact that are not growing up scared.

Still feel I need to have better control over them though. They behaved terribly in the shop the other day..

lou I tried your "I will have to help you ..." today and worked a treat. Thank you.

Fab I am so glad!! It is so bizarre that it subconsciously appeals to their sense of 'grown-upness' and independence when a direct challenge on it has no impact, isn't it?

They said nothing and started eating their lunch nicely .