WDYD when dc doesn't give a shit and star charts/time out/removal of favourite thing doesn't work?

[bunjies]

We are finding dd2 difficult to discipline as she really doesn't give a toss about any of the sanctions we impose. She is only 5, and the youngest of 3, so we are prepared for a certain amount of attention seeking but she also has to realise that there are consequences to deliberately scribbling all over her elder sister's drawings, or constantly jumping on the sofa, or spitting or scratching, or not doing what she's told etc. We've tried star charts, time out, and withholding things but she doesn't care about getting treats or having her favourite sleeping bag taken away. In fact, when she's put in time out she starts singing as if she's having the time of her life!

What do you do when you run out of options?

"Why would she continue to do something even though she's been told not to?"

Maybe she wasn't listening to you?
Maybe she didn't see why you were asking her not to fiddle with the spoon when she was having fun?
Is it really a problem if she doesn't stop something like this straight away? (It's not like she was wielding the carving knife!)

Would it help your or your DD if you were to think of these little incidents as a learning experience rather than an example of her 'disobedience'.

You ask her to stop. She doesn't and drops the spoon. Now the floor needs a wipe with kitchen roll and someone needs to fetch a clean spoon. Give her one of the tasks, do the other yourself. Next time she probably won't fiddle with the spoon or if she absent-mindedly picks it up you can remind her that if she drops it there'll be a mess to clear up.

I think the danger of making any kind of issue out of incidents like this is that children use them to attention seek afterwards.

OtherSide - I know, you're right. I sound really anal when you put it like that. I think events are becoming self-fulfilling prophecies as I am always anticipating an incident when she doesn't do what she's told. I know I need to chill out too. It's so hard though when you feel like she's doing it on purpose. Like you say, maybe she is.....

Yes, and it's easy to know how to best respond but actually getting it right when you are trying to dish up a meal is a different kettle of fish!

Only one incident like that in the whole day sound pretty good going to me!

Part of the Unconditional Parenting thingy (one of the few bits I remember) is that you work under the assumption that your children are basically decent human beings who occasionally do things that are noisy/ dangerous/ irritating through lack of better judgement.

So with the spoon, instead of thinking that you'd told her not to do it/ why is she still doing it?/ has this child been sent here to drive me to drink? etc. you'd think, well, she's 4 and engrossed in the spoon and doesn't really realise it's messy and irritating. Obviously this needs pointing out to her but just from your point of view, things seem much less irritating when you remove the malice. It makes things feel like less of a challenge to you personally and therefore less likely to provoke a big reaction.

To expand, even if she is 'doing it on purpose' it is because she mistakenly thinks that that is a good way to get your attention and not because she has a dark heart.

That's the idea anyway. Obviously, DS never winds me up nowadays, I am like a tree