DH and I are furious/drained. Why is DS like this? I need to talk.

[ChocolateFace]

I've gone back to my old posting name for this thread, but I am a regular.

Here goes; In laws came over today for a cup of tea...all was going well, DH was planning to take DC's out this afternoon to the park (at DS1's request), while I was going to do some ironing/housework in peace.

We were all in the sitting room, and DSs (11 and 7) were playing with lego. I noticed dS1 give DS2 a little shove, and pulled him up on it. DS1 was obviously a bit cross, DS2 carried on brumming the lego car around, and DS one gave him another slight flick/shove with his hand and marched off to his room.

A few minutes later he came downstairs, packed up the lego, apart form the car dS2 was playing with and carried it (noisily bumping it up the stairs) to his bedroom. He then banged around a bit in his bedroom, and started crying, and as the crying got louder, I told DH to go and see to him.

Now, DH is a very calm man, shouting is not his thing, but suddenly there was a roar like thunder from DH...so I went up stairs, followed by FIL. Now FIL is the type of man who thinks belting a child is the way to good behaviour, and would never interfere with someone else's parenting, but I honestly don't think he has ever heard his son shout before, and he quickly followed me up stairs.

S we discover DS1 has taken a compass to the wall and had scratched deep grooves in every one of the walls, and on one wall scored I HATE YOU. He's done this before coming back downstairs for the lego

When we bought this house 2 years ago, it needed lots of work, but we made sure DS1 had a nice bedroom, as priority. I would like to finish decorating the dining room this weekend, but now DH has got DS1 to help strip the wall paper off in his bedroom, and tomorrow they will line it and then it will need painting. so that's our Bank holiday stuffed.

FIL gave DS a talk about stressing DH out, and us not wanting him to have a heart attack.

I just said "You are an idiot" When I'm really stressed I fall asleep, which is what I did on the sofa this afternoon, but I still feel exhausted. DS1 seemsgenuinly remorseful, and seems very willing to help DH re-decorate.

Surely this is way out of the realm of normal 11 year old angry behaviour? This just seemed to come out of nowhere. I worry what's next.

Don't think it's necessarily out of the realm of normal behaviour but am quite puzzled as to why he felt so angry/what set him off?

Have you had a chance to ask your ds what he meant by it? Hard to believe it could be the lego incident alone. Could there be anything you don't know about?

Normally we see an explosion coming...this was just so fast. Literally out of nowhere. I asked him why he'd done it, and he said he just hates every one.

I'm just bemused.

I don 't think it's out of the realm of ordinary behaviour actually

when i was a similar age i tore the wallpaper off my walls and wrote in HUGE purple pen "i hate you all" on them

he needs you to listen to him, not tell him he's an idiot and get the whole family involved in telling him off.
this is him telling you something is wrong.... so listen to him and find out what it is

is the lego his?? is he tired of being expected to share nicely with his little brother when sometimes he wants to use his own toys to play his own game?
was he upset about being told off for shoving ds2 when maybe ds2 did something to him first which was unseen?
is it possible he thinks ds2 is favoured?

I wouldn't be redecorating his room - it would be a low priority after that behaviour.

He doesn't have to share with DS2, although it was mostly his lego, and DS2 had bought it downstairs a few days ago, presumeably with the permission of DS1.

I don't think it's a case that he thinks DS2 is favoured, although DS2 does get a bit more attention, as he's only 7, and naturally needs more help with homework, etc. We have talked about it with DS in the past, and pointed out he gets a lot more material things than DS2, partly because of his age.

thisisyesteday, why were you so angry when you wrote on your wall?

As I said, usually there is a build up, and DS will have poor behaviour at school, and strops around the house before something big like this happens.

We really need to get to the bottom of this, but DS is unable to talk about his feelings, so we tend to get nowhere.

TBH, I would have left his room, but DH is on a mission.

i can't really remember tbh!! it was definitely a way of saying "i'm really, really angry and upset and i want you to know about it" though. I've never had a good talking relationship with my parents- I've never found it easy to tell them how i am feeling and stuff, so would usually bottle things up and then explode out

i only ask about the feeling of his sibling being favoured as I think that this sometimes affects my eldest son.
I think I maybe encourage them to share all the time a bit much, and expect him to make allowances for his little brothers, even though he is still a child himself iyswim? sometimes it's really important that they get their toys and space to themselves without HAVING to share it.

i've been thinking about this today, which is why it came to mind.

maybe he just needs more time with you and his dad doing things by himself? I don't know really.
I think getting him to help his dad re-decorate is a really good idea and maybe he can get to the bottom of it? i think i'd def be having a "i know you were feeling really angry and upset that day, and i would like to help you, but i can't if i don't know what the matter is..." type chat

just wanted to add, i know that what he has done is pretty bad. but i don't think it warrants punishments or not decorating his room - though maybe he can help with some of the cost from his pocket money??

if he struggles with opening up to you, then this is a cry for help. it's him saying that something is upsetting him, don't punish him for that

Maybe he doesn't want material things, maybe he wants your attention?

And he's got it now, in a big way - you're decorating his bedroom again tomorrow.

Do the dining room instead, get him to help. He can live with the scratched, bare walls for a bit.

There is something bothering your son and it is going to take patience to get it out of him. He is approaching puberty and that can cause serious moodswings (have 4 children, 3 boys and a girl). My boys are now 23, 20 and 19yrs old and I usually found that sitting down in an open loving manner (after I had lost the plot) usually got problems elicited. For my youngest son his problem was being bullied at school, an issue that my first son had as well but not as badly. It is amazing what children will store up and then they cannot control the feelings of anger and frustration that eventually overflows.
Take time to try and find out what is upsetting him. It may take a few gos. He may just be needing more attention than you think he does.

What hunkermunker said.

DS is a similar age and prone to aggressive outbursts - puberty is upon us and he's hormonal - perhaps your DS is similar?

Have an 11-year-old DS and we sometimes see similar behaviour although it seems to have calmed down a bit since he started in secondary school last Sept. Year 6 was a bit of a rollercoaster really - a lot expected of him in terms of work load, attitude, SATs and responsibility and as the youngest in the school year (Aug birthday) I think, looking back, that he struggled a bit.

He occasionally has an explosive strop - slamming doors, yelling 'you don't understand'; 'you're always getting at me' - if he doesn't get his own way but no where near as bad as before.

Thanks everyone... DH and I talked about it, and the conversation before the explosion was all centred around DS2...his lego, his 10/10 in his spelling test...I think DS1 found it hard to handle. They really are like Horrid Henry and Perfect Peter. I think DS1 has a lot of deep anger about DS2 being born. I thought he'd got over it, but I guess it's never really going to go away.

CF, my 2 eldest are the same. they're only 5 and 2 at the moment, but still pretty horrendous tbh
ds1 really, really resents his brother and i can't see any way to fix that. he just wasn't ready for a sibling when ds2 came along. he is fine with ds3 though!

on his own he is an absolute star... just need to figure out how to keep him that way when his brothers are on the scene

spending time with him definitely helps I think, and acknowledging that some of his things are his and his little brothers aren't allowed them.

CF I could have written this post (not the specifics obviously), this is exactly the sort of thing DS1 does. Same age gap too (DS1 is 10 DS2 6). DS1 also really resents DS2's existence.
We had to fill in a questionnaire on DS2 for some project and I realised all the things DS2 rarely does are common in DS1 eg temper tantrums, moody, defiant, blaming others for mistakes.
I think it is related to low self esteem in relation to DS2 and feeling that DP prefers DS2. DP and DS2 are very similar personality-wise and DS1 is always asking for reassurance that he is loved equally and pushing boundaries with DP.
I don't want to be always punishing DS1 but it's not fair on DS2 to always be verbally abused and put down. It's definitely got worse over the last few months so is maybe partly hormonal. My strategies are to make sure DS1 gets lots of reassurances that he is loved by both of us, and make sure that they get plenty of time apart when they aren't getting on. They go to different after-school care which means 2 different pick-up points and I was going to put DS2 into after school club but actually it's nice for them to have space to be individuals. DS2 is a bit of a teacher's pet in that he loves running to say hi to all the adults and everyone knows him, I can see it must be difficult to be his older brother.

We have the same age gap (although they are younger). I kidded myself it was much better than the 18mths between me and DB1 but lately it seems not, and DS (who, as per other thread about 7yos, is Mr Angry, which I am putting largely down to hormones) seems resentful of DD about almost everything.

OP - can your DH take the opportunity of the decorating to try and talk to DS1 about what he was feeling when he did it? I suspect the key is not to leap on the first "reason" he comes up with, but to keep him talking as long as you can.

time to dust off that copy of Siblings Without Rivalry?

I agree with mears - he's trying to tell you something. To me this would signal an unhappy child. Why can't he express his feelings? Is he struggling at school perhaps? I have a ds who would do similar (and has) btw!

LOL, I've never actually finished reading Siblings Without Rivalry! or beyond sibling Rivalry, but I've just pulled them off the shelf.

Cornsilk, it's me, LS! DS seems to be pretty much OK at school, atm, even though his teacher is uber stressed about Sats.

I'm going to go and search Amazon for books on improving children's self esteem, as maybe I've had my head in the sand about this. The one thing I wanted for my children was high self esteem. Looks like I've got some work to do.

I am going to do that really horrible thing of posting without reading the whole thread. But I just wanted to say that my son is now 12 and this sort of thing started when he was 11 - with him, it's hormones, I think*, and it shakes him as much as it shakes us. It happens very very rarely.

*have come to hormone conclusion from long discussions with other parents and people in know

Anyway, it's hard. It's a hard year (is he in Year 6?) too and a stressful one, especially the scariness of going into secondary and leaving the comfort of primary. But in my limited experience, it's within the realm of normal behaviour for 11 year olds - I mean, if it's a one-off and not something that happens constantly and if he's as upset as you!

Oops, and now I'm doing the other annoying thing of posting and running.

I agree with Hunker. Do not redecorate his room immediately. Involve him in decorating the dining room so that he has your attention for doing something positive.

there's something bothering him.

try to remember that things may be happening in his head and inhis life that you do not even know about. try to find out what these are and if you can't, try to accept that sometimes there will be stresses on him that you are not able to identify and control. He's not an infant (and should be punished for behaving like one) but this means you have to respect his more complex life.

I agree with all the brilliant advice on here. I have a very similar, explosive DS1, and whilst he and his brother do get on pretty damn well now, I think he does have "ishoos" about the birth of his brother and their very different personalities.

Something else strikes me, which hasn't been mentioned. DS1 is very sensitive to other people's moods and opinions of him. If your DS1 is the same and senses disapproval from his FIL (for instance), or anxiety on your part that he is misbehaving in front of the ILs, then he may have become more tense and over-reacted as a result.

I don't think you should punish. Get him to help your DH with the wall, and "love bomb" him for a while

My DS4 (almost 13) is very, very similar and has been since starting High school. He is also one of the youngest in his year.

Academically he has no problem at all at school. It is a rough school with 2,500 pupils in it. Socially he does struggle.

We had lots of problems last year and he became very sad and down. I ended up putting a notebook in his room. I told him that he could write whatever he wanted in it and so could I. We had to both be honest about our feelings and answer any questions the other one asked. I told him anything we wrote we had to keep confidential.

We only wrote in it a couple of times and lots of issues were quickly sorted out - quickly and quietly and effectively. The book still stays on the top of his wardrobe and now and then I will check to see if he has written anything.

Just wondered if our experiences would be of any help to you.