I don't know what to do - I really don't

[boythengirl]

I have two DC - one is 4 a boy and a girl who is 2.

I am at my wits end about my DS' behaviour. I could write a book about it but I shall try and keep it short. He is grumpy, self centred and very diffcult to be around, deal with. He has been like this for a long time - several years. There are days but they are infrequent where he is a nice boy to be around but in general it is hard work from the moment he gets up. His sister, although capable of having her 'moments' is a happy fun loving joy to be around.

My DS just brings us all down in mood. He is very negative most of the time and very negative towards his siter...won't sit beside her at mealtimes or booktime and won't play with her. He whinges all day, has mini tantrums about the smallest things. He also expects me to be with him 24/7. If I try to make a cup of tea and sit down for 5 mins he gets very upset. He is constantly nagging me for the next game etc.

I have been seeing a HV as the situation is making me very miserable (which does not help either). She thinks perhaps he is emotionally immature and it's just going to take time. Today is another bad day and I have just said to my DH that I am seriously thinking about going back to work as I cannot cope with the situation and I am not able to help him.

If anyone has any ideas of what might help or what might be causing it I would really be grateful!

Does he go to nursery? Have they said anything about his behaviour? Are you able to identify anything that might trigger good/ bad behaviour? Particular situations, people, food, how much sleep he's had? What about if you're out? Is he better when you play with him?

DS1 really responded to star chart/ time out when he was going through a phase of being a pain.

i have a similar situtation with my dcs. one is a happy, contented child, the other can be a treasure but can also be a disatisfied, whinger.

i love them both dearly but one is definitely easier to be around.

sorry i can't offer advice, i think they are just different personality types.

Does he go to pre-school / nursery? At 4 he will be very bored and lonely without some kind of school.

He goes to preschool 5 mornings a week where I think his behaviour is fine. My DH gets it at the weekend so not just me. It can range from crying because the swings in the playground are full and he has to wait his turn to disobeying me constantly. Very difficult as he does not seem to be learning. Reward charts don't work and withdrawal of toys/treats work only temporarily. We really are stumped as to how to keep upbeat and deal with it.

My friend's son was challenging at times and she read the book How to talk to you so your kids will listen and how to listen so your kids will talk to you (or something along those lines). It helped their relationship a great deal. Worth a try.

How do you react to him when his behavious is trying?

Do you engage or argue with him? Do you feel like you need to have the last word?

Just wondering what he is getting out of behaving like this? Does he crave your attention even if it's negative.

My second DD is 'a handful' so I sympathise. I have to really remind myself to not engage with her when she is being painful, I turn my back to her and 'freeze her out' until things improve then turn on the praise. I always demand an apology for bad behavior, too.

Hope your HV is suporting you as it's not easy.

It must be very tough, he sounds like he needs a lot of stimulation and playing with, like my ds who is 5. Last year before he started school He was demanding as although he went to preschool in the mornings he needed occupying for the rest of the day. Now he has been at school since sept he is much better, but still hates playing alone. Your ds doesn't get on with his sister at all? Have you tried games they can play together, helping them bond?

Reward charts or naufhty step never worked for my ds. He gets one warning and then if he does something else naughty he cones home and goes in his room till I tell him he can come out. With situations like the swings at the park have you tried saying 'right we can wait our turn nicely and play on x while waiting or if you carry on crying we will just go home'. If he keeps crying just do it, take them home. Have done it myself and it's amazing the shock on their face, and he will remember for next time. Good luck

Totally sympathise with you. My DS is 5 and can be nightmare from the moment he wakes until bed. Everything can be a battle. I've tried the reward charts, naughty step etc but to no avail.

He's been like this for several years. Health Visitor said because he was bright at his two year check but he's still the same. He's fine at school but then comes home fighting (with me and DD). He can be lovely, sensitive and affectionate but most the time can be hell.

In the end I went to my GP who has referred us to CAMHS - we're due to see them in a few weeks.

Have you spoken to your GP or Children's Centre to see if they can refer you to someone who may be able to suggest alternative strategies to deal with his behaviour?

Thanks all...some days like today I just end up hating the way the day has gone, hating the way I handled it...but I know that no matter how much I try if he is in 'his mood' it will be the same all over tomorrow. my reactions range from ignoring his grumpiness to getting very cross with him. I do give warnings and fav bear/toy is withheld but it makles no difference 1hr/day later we have the same tantrum all over again. Underneath it all he is a very sweet, sensitive little boy but I have to be honest and say it's difficult remembering that at the moment...every day feels like a challenge. I also fear that his sister picks up some of it and has started to say some of the negative things he says.

When I try to talk calmly with him (when he has calmed down) he just refuses to talk about it/looks the other way/laughs/starts talking about something else.

Newlife4us - sounds simialr...most days we end up barely getting home from preschool without some kind of incidence! (and it's only a 5 min walk)

What is CAMHS?

CAMHS is Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service. Could be another avenue to explore? See if you can get a referral from GP/ HV?

Big hugs going out to you {{{{hug}}}}}

H reminds me of ds1 aged 4 tbh and ds1 went on to be diagnosed with SN

However whether that's worth considering or not is absed entirely on your child and instintcs and it is impossible to tell from the other side of the internet

TBH my sister went back to work ehn she was at the stage you are at now and it helped enornmously- some peopl just need work in their lives as well as being a mum, that's fine (and tbh I think we all need something, whether or not employment)- it might be a godsend

As mumoftjm states it stands for Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service. They have a range of services including child psychologists who work with the child and the whole family to try and establish why the child behaves as they do and offer support and coping stategies.

I've got a friend currently using CAMHS who is finding it extremely helpful.

Your son sounds exactly like mine. He can be sensitive and loving, but for much of theday i feel like i'm being controlled by my 5 year old. Most days i dreadpicking him up from school and every family outing is marred by his exhausting behaviour. FWIW i did used to work 3 days a week but he was up every hour at night - i think he was doing it for more attention.

i really don't believe that he has SN due to his ability to switch it on and off. (His elder sister does have SN.) At school DS's behaviour is exemplary! I kept waiting for him to grow out of it but now wish that i'd sought help earlier.

Like you after a complete meltdown i ask DS why he got so angry but he either starts talking about something else or says something completely stupid. He is remorseful and says he loves us. Recently he has started saying that he doesn't want to get angry but his head gets really angry.

On good days (few and far between) i feel like a different person - much calmer and much more positive about everything.

Just remember that there is a sweet little boy in there. It's not you that's causing him to behave like this but he's obviously (like my DS) having dificulties in expressing his anxieties in any other way than anger.

Good luck and big hugs.

very good post from newlifeforus . I have a friend who's ds is exactly the same, it's very switch off and onable too! My dd is friends with her dd(both 3) and he's 6. When we're round here his attention seeking goes off the scale. I think he struggles to cope with his little sisters attention being diverted to my dd and also the fact I'm there talking to his Mum!

I have to say he gets lots and lots of rewards (ie 1:1 time with Mum) for what i would call negative behaviour which is massively reinforcing it. E.g. when he tantrummed over his sister and my dd joining in his game, rather than sharing or finding something else to do he got 1:1 baking time with Mum!! Also when he stropped at the playground again over not having intense parental attnetion he got to go home on his own with Mum.

I know it's hard but ignoring can be v v effective if it's consistent whilst making sure he gets scheduled time with you in the day?

FWIW I work in CAMHS, I not sure whther this type of thing would be our threshold but I'm in the Psychiatry side, the Psychology team do "positive parenting" and a referral may help?

are either of you (you and DP) depressed/negative?

i think your exhaustion with the situation may be adding to it.

have you tried to surprise him by reacting to his negativity with totally OTT positivity?

children get very used to getting a parent's reaction a certain way. he's learned to get attention from you by behaving this way. the fact that it's a negative reaction is irrelevant...

i think you need to rethink your strategy in dealing with this behaviour and be creative in the way you deal with him.. try to feel positive about him as much as possible. fight the negative associations with him and he'll start reacting in kind.

and start right now... go and give him a cuddle and tell him how fabulous he is.

Switching it on and off (or rather appearing to)and difference at school doesn't rule out SN (indeed would be fairly typical with Aapergers) but I am not saying this child does- parent's instincts usually best guide imo

Totally agree thatnegativity is likely to be a root cause and that's not always easy to avoid once you are in a pattern. I adore ds1 but his AS combined with other emotional problems absolutely makes it very hard to remian positive, and I have fallen away from that at times- with a corresponding fall in behaviour every time.

I do agree with CAHMs but depending on wher you are they can be very ahrd to access.

Oh an idea

have ytou ever come across the idea of love bombing ? sounds silly but it works for us (we have 4 boys, 2 with as / autism so need a large range of remedies LOL)

The idea is simply to take every opportunity for a while to show love X 200%- not just a peck at night but a full cuddle; lots and lots of itwith praise every single time child is not engaged in negative behaviour....

takes effort but can work wonders on a struggling relationship (works ime for both parent and child)

I wonder if he might be jealous of your daughter? Has he always been like this?
Do you make sure that you pay him good attention (ie praise, play etc) especially when your daughter is around?

I'm no expert, just a thought.

TBH i have wondered whether DS aspergers at times. He is extremely bright and seems to need constant stimulation but on the other hand has empathy with others, is very sociable is not obsessed about one thing etc so not sure?

He is far worse when DD around - is lovely on his own. We have wondered whether it is attention seeking - DD has uncontrolled epilepsy, immunological issues and concern with her liver. At times when she is acutely unwell he has asked if she's going to die. We have explained that she isn't and that the doctors are going to make her better.

We have always been careful to give him special attention and is taken out by myself or DH to have special one to one time, but maybe he picks up on anxiety over her health (i'm always calm about it around the children), and the constant battles with her school to try and get her the SEN support that she desperately needs.

I do try the calm, happy approach with his behaviour but by the end of the day i'm exhausted (having been kicked, punched, chairs thrown at me etc) that it's difficult not to tell him off and show that you're down with the behaviour.

He gets lots of cuddles, told we love him and best boy in the world etc but as soon as i need to do something else like cook their tea, go to the loo etc it kicks off.

He has to be first in the door, first up the stairs, the only one on the sofa etc which i do give into (i know its wrong) but sometimes i cannot face another hour long tantrum so try to avoid it!

Does he sound aspergers?

FWIW - i have tried the ignoring technique, but his actions are too dangerous to ignore. He would either cause injury to himself, his sister, me or throwing heavy objects at glass windows etc.

The only strategy i've found to keep him safe whilst in a tantrum is to go behind him and hold him gently but firmly on my lap whilst stroking his back or arm with the other to calm him down. At this point he is normally shouting that "i am trying to make him dead" as he knows that this will make me feel guilty. When he does calm down he often wets himself?! I change him and then we have a long cuddle and he's a different person (until the next tantrum).

Newlife he doesn't not Aspergers but it's ahrd to say more than that: the spectrum after all is wide.

If you have any thoughts at all about whether he may have AS have a look at this site; the triad is not diagnostic but is useful as an indicatior as to whether a child should see a PAeditrician. Use the definitions widely as well- for example when we think of a child with ASD as socially inpet we think withdrawn: true forr ds1, but for ds3 it is the polar opposite- his boundaries are as lacking, just he goes the other way iyswim?

If your child does in any way seem as if he may have AS see a GP for a referral: after all you an take a child off the waiting list, but if things escalate you can't get them to the head of it.

My greatest sympathy - I've also had periods where one or other DS is a nightmare. Mine are 2.7 years apart, and these first few years were very hrad

I think that a referral to CAHMs may well help you. I too agree with the idea of "love-bombing" but it's hard to do when you are as worried as you are about him, and feeling down on him.

I think there may well be some sibling stuff mixed up in this, as you have wondered, and I think it could also well be his age. (DS1 was very difficult in the months before he started school).

The point is, we don't know, but I think some outside support could really help you to get through this and see him again for the lovely boy he is.

A further thought - I used to worry a lot about the relationship between my DSs, because DS1 did not seem to have anything good to say about his brother, and did not seem to be able to play with him, at this age - for more than 5 minutes at a time. I would advise you to relax about this - don't push him to be more interested or engaged with her than he is.

This was hard for me to do because DS2 worshipped his brother, and I was desperate for them to be close. I used to think they would never be able to play together.

BUT DS1s interest in, and love for DS2 has grown steadily. I know DS1 still resents DS2 at times (they are very different), but I also know they love and support each other (now 7 and 9)

The reason I am mentioning the sibling thing again is because there appear to be no apparent problems with your DSs behaviour at nursery

I am the sort of person who worries a lot about the future, and this makes me quite angry when things are going wrong. I wonder if you are too (forgive me if I am off-beam here)

Thank you i'll def have a look at the triad. Don't know if it's a case of me burying my head in the sand as don't know if i could cope with a dx for DS after all we go through with DD (does that sound awful?)

I just couldn't bear to have another child going through what DD does and to battle for SEN on two counts concurrently.

Will post back when looked at the triad.

Sorry, boythengirl i wasn't trying to hijack your thread. Just empathise with you and wanted you to know your not the only one in this boat.

• have realised I have replied to newlife4us , thinking she was the OP.

Hopefully some of my ramblings may be relevant to one or other of you .....