Am i wrong to think that there is no sharp dividing line between children with SN and those without?

[OrmRenewed]

I don't want to tread on anyone's toes (cringing a bit even typing this) but it is not true to say that many children have different needs and abilities that might well put them somewhere on the autistic spectrum, without being diagnosed or without being seen as having any diagnosable 'problems'.

I ask because I get regularly concerned about DS#2's behaviour. He's been assessed by the SENCO but there is nothing 'wrong'. Which is fine, I don't want there to be anything wrong. But when he goes through one of his phases of endless tantrums and losing it big time about things that wouldn't even occur to most of us, or gets one of his little obsessions into his head it seems clear to me that he isn't the same as his siblings or most other children I know - in the way that he relates to the world and other people. I refuse to accept he is simply 'naughty' for want of a better word.

Is it more constructive to see all children as being at different points along a line?

I wouldn't just take a SENCOS word for the fact that there is nothing 'wrong'

I think everyone is at different points along a line, some just need more help than others.

I've spent a long time of my DSs life being told there is nothing wrong, when infact there is and now it is becoming a bigger deal, they're all creeping out of the woodwork, gushing about how they've always known there was an issue [mad]

Apologies for the mini rant.

I would agree with your statement. I think there are lots of people with different strengths and weaknesses.

Certainly for any kind of SN which involves a "spectrum", there is going to be an arbitrary line where someone is counted as having the condition/being affected/whatever and someone just the other side of the line isn't. It sounds like your DS may be somewhere around the dividing line.

You could talk to someone other than the SENCO to see if they agree with the dx, or OTOH you could just read up about how best to deal with these issues even though you don't have the dx - if his behaviour is autistic-like then suggestions for how to help an autistic child may be useful to know.

You are right in the title. Could it be that the SENCO means that while his behaviour at times may resemble something, it is not actually a problem to him?

How old is he?

My son has a condition called Chiari. The effects of this are just ridiculously wide ranging. Prior to finding out it has a name, some of his behaviours were referred to as spectrum, he has dyspraxia and a whole host of other little traits.

Before we got the diagnosis, he was just a little bit different with a sprinkling of issues. All children are different, and for different reasons. It's definitely constructive for me to see my DS as being at a different point on a line.

I agree, don't take a SENCO's word for it.

Alot of children have little obsessions, I remember my little brother really liking the teenage mutant ninja turtles and batman. They should change though, eventually. I think that all people will fit into the SN spectrum somewhere, everyone has a trait of this or a trait of that, it's when these traits cause problems for the child or in the relationships that the child has with other people then help is needed. I also wouldn't take the senco's opinion, I'd pop and see the GP as there's alot of other conditions that need looking into, he could have a mix of a few and it sounds like he needs some strategies to help him cope with day to day life without having a tantrum, the world sounds like a scary place for him, some support wouldn't be a bad thing, for your whole family aswell as ds2.

I would certainly say that to find a "bog standard" child may be quite difficult as many children display unusual characteristics while they are still devloping neurologically. My GP (very wise woman) once told me if you lined up 10 4 year old boys 8 out of 10 would display ADHD/ASD/dyspraxia symptoms and reckoned ASD was best described as "an extreme sort of maleness".
However whilst my DD (3) lines up her stuffed toys/tantrums for England and can be generally oppositional I just have this underlying instinct she is NT and fine. My DS (5) however is the calmer of the 2/copes well with change and plays well at home. But he is on the autistic spectrum...how did I know he was "different"? I honestly dont know-I just knew he was...and sadly I was right because when he hit reception behaviour deteriorated as he tried desperately to fit in...
I know exactly how YesYoumUst feels-spent much of DS early life being told I was paranoid...and now all saying yes his eye contact was not good (in fact eye contact fine...)

Thanks.

He's 7.

The SENCO was concerned mostly about his inability to concentrate or seemingly to listen. But as his abilities in school seem to have improved they aren't interested anymore.

I have read 'The Explosive Child' or whatever it's called and a lot of it makes sense. And I do find it works quite often. Sadly I also need a book on 'The Impatient and time-deprived parent of 3 children: how they are supposed to deal with the explosive child'

I'd be wary of the extreme male brain theory as it really is based on questionable gender stereotypes.

I think a reasonable point though is that often in the case of really mild disorder, you aren't going to medicate it and labelling often does more harm than good so it may be a good idea to avoid it.

If it is more serious and is impacting his education and social relationships then maybe it is worth seeking a second opinion to give you a label to get help from the school.

Thanks mrsr. Where do I start with that?

Does he have triggers or is it anything and everything?

Pop and see your GP Orm, they can make a CAMHS (child and adolescent mental health services) referral for you.

My DS is also 7, I also need the book you mention.

It's hard to say. I know that being tired makes it worse. Doesn't it for all of us?

But we can have major rows over the way his toys are stored, how he lines up his dinosaurs, who gets to go upstairs first, whether anyone helps him when he doesn't want them to... and they tend to be accumulative. By the end of a day like this he is on a hair-trigger and can't sleep. So it gets worse the next day and it's a vicious circle.

I have been concerned for a while that my 9 has a difficulty but no one else agrees.

Thanks belle. I think I might have to. We just had a very stressful Easter holidays. Feeling totally frazzled TBH.

It sounds like a control issue, it must be incredibly scary when things are not in the right order for him.
Does he pick up accents off the TV and use them alot?

I'm not surprised you are frazzled, it must be like walking on egg shells all the time. Have you tried doing a time table for him? At 8am he gets dressed, 8:30 leave the house for school? Draw a clock for each activity and put a normal clock on the wall near the chart so he can match them up.

I think it becomes defined as a special need when it affects normal everyday life. When the particular child had a need over and above what you would expect of his/her age.

Whether that continues or not and whether you seek a further diagnosis is down to what you can actively cope with as a mother and as a family. And, if applicable, taking the schools view into account.

Yes he does do the accent thing now you mention it. And likes to quote chunks of dialogue too. But usually gets it wrong

Not tried the timetable. I'll suggest it to him - he liked his star chart.

I agree - and even within a diagnosis (2 of my DSs are Dyspraxic - one verbal, one motor) there are such huge variations and degrees. DS2 also has "Aspergic tendencies" - but that's as far as we know, and having the label doesn't change anything.

SENCos are often great, sometimes useless, but they're not medically paid professionals. If you have concerns, go to your GP and ask for a referral to your community paediatrician or for an Ed Psych assessment.

I think that you're right in OP, ORM -- I reckon that DS2 is at the end of the normal spectrum. I don't know what is, really, but I'm pretty sure it exists.

And anyway, even 'normal' children can present very challenging behaviour.

I'm not convined that it always helps to have a special label for what they do.

It might help slightly when people react badly to my son if I could say "Oh please excuse him, he has X" but if I understand the SN boards on here, having a formal DX for it doesn't really engender much sympathy and support or even stop the judging in many cases. Nor does it tell you what to expect or how to find the fortitude to deal with it.

I assess DS2 as "immature and over sensitive". It's a neat simple summing up.

Have you looking into Autism? I would pop and see your GP and have a chat, he's becoming very frequently upset from what you are saying, if it were my child I would ask for a referal regardless of what the senco had said as he's clearly not coping.

Children with autism have a real need for routine, things need to be in the same place because it's really scary when they are not, it really helps to try and see the world from this point of view as it helps parents to understand how frightening the world can be. Autistic children don't see the world as we do, they need everything to be the same, they don't normally have communication skills.

www.nas.org.uk Have a look at this. I may be wrong, I trained as a paediatric nurse for a couple of years and have seen assessments for autism though. Pop and see your GP, you don't have to take your son with you.

I am a teacher, although not a SENCO. We (teachers) have to remember that all children are different but it becomes SEN when it is affecting their education, which is why the E is in there. I had a little girl in my class who could only be described as 'different'. I recommended she come off the SEN register as she was still learning and progressing. I didn't want her being penalised for having a different outlook on life. People are not all the same and it's a real danger in schools that we label children as having SEN just for being different.

Sorry, I meant to say that was from an educational point of view. Please go and see your GP if you're still concerned, they can refer you to CAMHS and other agencies for help.