Am i wrong to think that there is no sharp dividing line between children with SN and those without?

[OrmRenewed]

I don't want to tread on anyone's toes (cringing a bit even typing this) but it is not true to say that many children have different needs and abilities that might well put them somewhere on the autistic spectrum, without being diagnosed or without being seen as having any diagnosable 'problems'.

I ask because I get regularly concerned about DS#2's behaviour. He's been assessed by the SENCO but there is nothing 'wrong'. Which is fine, I don't want there to be anything wrong. But when he goes through one of his phases of endless tantrums and losing it big time about things that wouldn't even occur to most of us, or gets one of his little obsessions into his head it seems clear to me that he isn't the same as his siblings or most other children I know - in the way that he relates to the world and other people. I refuse to accept he is simply 'naughty' for want of a better word.

Is it more constructive to see all children as being at different points along a line?

Is it more constructive to see all children as being at different points along a line?

well possibly - though sometimes they have to decide whether to throw the money at helping you depending on the severity. As most of the ways these things are defined are not yes/no things, but scores on tests that can fall anywhere in a range, you'd be 100% right.

for instance, my brother is in the least manually adept 5% of the population - therefore dyspraxic - everyone else sitting somewhere on that population distribution. presumably they have ways of testing for ASD on a similar sliding scale

in the end i agree that it boils down to whther you think he needs additional help - or might in the future (hard to predict) if he does you will need to push hard to get some kind of diagnosis (and with additional teacher time, exam time, facilities etc..).

I think a diagnosis is helpful for the family aswell as the school. Alot of parents need the support that a diagnosis brings, a child with ASD can get help with social skills for example, it doesn't just help in school. If the parents recieve help aswell then it means that everyone's singing from the same sheet, the parents know what's causing the behaviour and are able to defuse a situation before it escalates. It just makes everyone's life easier, most of all, the child.

My mum struggles with my little boy. SHe loves him dearly (everyone does, he's that kind of child) but she is so shocked by his behaviour when he loses it. She has never experienced it before. She shakes her head and says things like 'but there's nothing wrong with him, dear, I'm afraid it's just plain naughtiness". Suspect she thinks a good smack would do the trick I would love to be able to say 'mum, this is his problem' but not sure that's a good enough reason to want a label

There's a real lack of understanding in the older generation about SN, they used to send children into mental institutions rather then deal with the problems how we do now.

It's not a label that you are looking for, you all need support, your son needs strategies so that he finds the world less scary. I think this is far more important then a label.

Well if you think it will help (and if your mum thinks it's just plain naughtiness then a teacher or two will too right?) then go and get a second opinion, I don't think there's harm done in it really.

You may find this article interesting:
www.helium.com/items/767736-the-pros-and-cons-of-having-your-child-labeled-as-l earning-disabled

Obviously LD is different to ASD but the issue is the interesting discussion

OK. Thankyou. I will try and see if GP can help.

It wasn't really meant to be just about DS though . I was interested generally. I have a nephew who shows dispraxic tendencies (as did my DB as a child). DB was told he was clumsy and slow (by school not by parents I might add) whereas DN got some limited help. Generational differences I guess.

Dyspraxia used to actually be called Clumsy Child Syndrome helpful...

Ds used to have a nightmare time in PE, at the end of the day after every PE lesson I was spoken to about how he behaves, "doesn't make any effort, falls over on purpose, keeps stopping, messes about". The poor lad's got hypermobility and probably a connective tissue disorder, his feet are barly able to hold him up when he's walking so PE's going to be hard for him.

Anyway, everyone has a trait of this or a trait of that. I feel antisocial at times, I don't particularly want to pick the phone up or talk to anyone, doesn't mean I have aspergers though. I used to eat my food in a specific way, veg first, then potato, then meat, doesn't mean I have OCD. If people look hard enough they can see anything, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's there though.

Orm, it never, ever does any harm to look for another opinion. Even an EdPsych misdiagnosed ds1 when he was 5. She said he had dyspraxia, several opinions later it turned out that he has ADD, which, in his case, is largely to do with auditory processing difficulties. He probably does have tendencies towards dyspraxia and possibly Aspergers but what he needs help with is organisation and the fact that he can't listen for more than 5 minutes.

I had experience with my DS.....

To cut a long story short - I realised that 'normal' is huge sprectrum too. I just accept/accommodate for the ways that he's different.

He's at college, has a part time job, car and bike license and is an adorable young man.

Orm, i remember talking to you ages ago about our "quaint" children, and your post does chime with my feelings about my DS1 (who is 9). Both me and DH agree that he is a bit of an "odd-bod", with autistic-type tendencies.

I don't have any answers on this, because I haven't done anything about it as yet. I suppose I think it is very mild, and no-one else would take it seriously. But I do keep a weather eye on things because I think he does have some social difficulties. This has improved as he has got older, as have his temper tantrums (he was the most tantrummy 2-4 year old I have ever known)

It has helped me to come on MN and to think of him has having "special needs". I don't get so frustrated with him.

Dyspraxia used to actually be called Clumsy Child Syndrome ...

well this is the thing with labels. frankly, i don't think it mattered which label was applied, so long as it was the one that came with an additional 0.1 of a teacher, an emmanuensis and addiitonal time in exams, a free computer and the total inability of any educational professional to tell mother her boy was stupid.

dyspraxia isn't that flattering a term either, tis just a greekification of 'bad - practice' - in essence they have Greekified 'clumsy' to make it sound better......therefore my Dad was still sceptical when the EdPscyh popped up with that term. twas virtually unheard of in them days though..

back to the main point, if you think about it, tis all on a sliding scale - short-sighted to blind, hard of hearing to deaf, etc etc...

that doesn't mean that short-sightedness isn't a problem that needs correction, just because blindness is worse.

jamie - what is frightening me atm is that the bigger and stronger he gets the less able I am to deal with him. When he simply refused to go to X, I have resorted to lifting him up and taking him there, and vice versa, moved him away from what he was doing. It isn't going to be possible much longer. He has taken to thumping things in his frustration - new development - which is OK as long as it remains 'things' not people.

The time to push for a diagnosis is the time when you feel he needs to access help or understanding that he couldn't get without diagnosis. A child that is thriving with the same input as his or her mates doesn't need a diagnosis for anything, a child that isn't thriving might need extra help.

OrmRenewed,

Yes agree, except it's not so much points on a line, it's more points in a multi-dimensional space (my younger son has additional needs and in the course of understanding him I've realised that I and my older son are also not "neurotyptical" in many ways - though it doesn't matter as it doesn't disable us).

I think that tiny biological differences can cause huge anxieties as you develop and become aware of them - perhaps that's why he never got on to the radar when younger (language ok, that sort of thing?).

My daughter is not NT. But I find it hard to think of her as having a SN. Does that make sense? I think I may go down in flames here but I see her as completely and utterly normal . I truly don't want to offend anybody by saying that. I don't think anybody is normal. Everybody has something that is unusual or different and if they think they don't, prob haven't had enough scans/tests done!

Orm You do sound worn down with it. Someone said that you can only be as happy as your unhappiest child, and although I'd like to feel I have more resilience than that, so I can actually see things clearly and be of help to him, the worry gets me down at times.

But we are bobbing along at the moment. Sounds like maybe you could benefit from talking to someone else about him.

When you say "refusing to go to X", and you having to lift him, can you give an example?

Martin - I know what you mean. The older DS and his friends get, the more I see they all have their "things", their foibles and weaknesses. It's just that DS1s are more "out there" ATM in comparison to his peers.

Bed is a perfect example jamie. 'DS, come on now, it's bed time'.
'No I am playing with X'
'OK, five minutes for you to finish your game'. 5 mins later
'Come on now, it's time for bed'.
'No!'

etc etc and in the end I have to haul him up the stairs. And he yells and kicks. I can hardly lift him now. DH can but if he does DS gets almost hysterical.

But this thread has helped me a lot. Thanks guys. I've been watching him and it is very clear it's all about control - we have to plan our day more carefully, allow more time and respect his 'rules'. Easier said than done I know.

I would have a look on the sn board for threads about helping with time concepts by using visual aids. something like a timetimer (www.timetimer.com) might take the heat out of that bedtime confrontation.

Don't know if this helps but my SIL has helped my nephew's Dyspraxia with some diet changes.

Even if he hasn't been diagnosed with anything it sould be worth a try. I think she avoided 'aspartame' amongst other things. Could be worth doing some research.

If there is something 'niggling' I would push for a full assessment to be honest.

I thought my child was a bit odd, then he got a referral for asd dx. I prepared myself for asd but knew it would be only mild if he was.

Turns out he is severe.

Now I understand about the condition it is as clear as a bell, but his SENCO doesn't really see him as having any problems .

Niggles should be listened to imo.

because then you might get a free motorbility car

After consulation with DS yesterday evening I have made a chart with all the 'jobs' he needs to do in the evenings. HW (if he has any), eat dinner, bath, teeth, reading, Go TO SLEEP!. If he can tick off each one (when neccessary) he gets a sticker at the end of the row. He enjoys filling things in methodically. We'll see.