It is like living in hell......

[beesonmummyshead]

dd is 2.6. She is my pfb, and grandparents first grandchild (on both sides) Grandparents look after her 2 days per week whilst I work. They (obviously) spoil her and give her undivided attention.

She is an incredibly demanding child. Think velcro baby, walked at 9 months, spoke at 12 months and doesn't pause for breath most days she speaks or sings so much.

Today she has made my life hell by:

Throwing her paint across the living room whilst we were painting.

Weeing in the dining room (she has been dry for 4 months, day and night and has NEVER wet herself)

tipping her drink over the table with our food on it.

Pulling my hair until it hurts and refusing to let go - then swinging on my hair.

I act consistently, as does DH. Each time she has to go outside whichever room she is in for time out. We ignore her tantrums, screaming and kicking walls during this time. She stays out there until she is calm enough, and WE are calm enough for her to return, normally a couple of minutes. She gets told off VERY firmly (she also made me shout at her today by pulling on my hair). When she returns we recap what made us all so angry, what is not acceptable and why she went outside. She then apologises and we make friends and resume playing. She also loses the paint, or whatever else she threw for the rest of the day.

But it is hell isnt it? She has spent most of today crying, I have spent most of today ignoring her, DH and I have rowed which we hardly ever do, and really I am considering adoption . How lng does this last? Am I doing anything which encourages her to act like this do you think? I cannot have another day like today, so your advice would be incredibly welcome whilst I dream about opening that bottle of wine in an hour or so

Reading this she sounds very young

the thing that strikes me is that you are reacting so much to her behaviour.

With my 2.9yo 9boy) I ignore him.

if he does something naughty, I just say 'no' and hold him if he is upset, take him and distract him in another room, offer food etc

He won't be 'trained' but he will be distracted. You are giving so much attention when she plays up that she thinks it is al a game because she doesn't understand what's going on.

I think you need to minimise your reaction massively.

Worth a try? Mine is great, very few terrible twos stuff from him, but he is second so I have had a chance already at this and got it wrong the first time...

Are you getting out enough? The only thing that struck me about your post is that it seems you've been at home all day, which can make things seem worse. I am a SAHM at the moment and we try to go somewhere every day. (Having said this, you probably do go out a lot and today has been a one off!).

Are you picking your battles? Most of the things today sound like fair enough for a telling off, but with the water, are you sure she did it deliberately? Keep in mind she doesn't do these things with malice, she just wants to learn what will happen.

Apart from that, it sounds like you're doing the right things and she is just a strong-willed little person who is at a difficult stage.

Open it now. I succombed to a glass of wine about an hour ago.

Yes, it is hell some days regardless of anything you do - they just seem to wake up with a demon in them. I think all you can do is ride it out and hope for better things tomorrow.

in other words yes you are encouraging it, by overreacting to everything she does wrong

2yos don't have enough self control to respond to discipline such as you are organising,

this stuff would maybe work on a much older child say 4 or 5,
but she can't understand it. so just screams and so on, then does it again later...they have impulses, not choices, about their actions. They just DO stuff. They can't control themselves. You have to do it by distraction.

Plus there will be a reason ebhind it, days like this - she is feeling bad or hungry or tired or has a toothy coming...something is wrong, however small.

It's not about her decising to wind you up. It's far more primal than that.

Stop freaking out about things she does, stop the ';very firm telling off'

it's going over her head
She WILL grow out of doing daft crap, they all do, but you're not helping! In the nicest possible way, chill out a bit and so will she.

Why has she spent most of the day crying?

To be honest, this all sounds absolutely normal toddler behaviour. Toddlers do pull hair, throw stuff and spill drinks. Frequently. It's frustrating but it's not really hell.

It sounds like you're swinging between paying way too much attention to her behaviour and over-reacting to what she does or you're 'ignoring' her.

Does she have time to play on her own, look at books, maybe watch tv even? I think toddlers definitely need time to wander around, play with stuff and stare into space without being pushed to join in and do activities (like painting) all the time. They get overstimulated easily.

You're spot on with the consistent behaviour and firm boundaries, but Flight is right that you need to use that alongside ignoring some of the bad behaviour (and going a bit over the top re praising the good stuff).

I've also found that when you have a precocious child, who speaks early and can appear much older than they are, it's very easy to forget that the child doesn't have any greater level of maturity, or ability to understand, than a less verbal child. I know with my DD I used to assume way too much at times, which affected how I treated bad behaviour. She's just pushing her luck because she can - sometimes as a parent you assume there's malice where there really isn't any.

thanks all, it has been a wearing day

Mamavoo dd is just getting dressed for bed by the fire - as soon as she has gone I am onto that bottle - I cannot face another argument about her wanting some of my drink and me refusing

fliight you might be right, we do react to ALL of the naughty things she does, and I did know that a lot of the behaviour is reactionary, it just annoys me when it is the third day she has tipped water over the table at dinner time (and she does want her dinner, she eats well). I shall try picking my battles - unfortunately for me distraction does not work one iota with dd. She has NEVER been able to be distracted. I remember one car journey when she was 16 months old and had lost her blue pony. The whole fucking car journey, over 35 minutes she asked for her blue horse and sobbed and cried. Even when we distracted her for a second, she went straight back to asking aout the blue horse.

intergalactic yes we have been to the beach for a walk today, then to a cafe/farm shop and then to a garden centre to choose easter eggs for our family. We were in a lot this morning though, well for about 4 hours whilst the rest of the world woke up.

She is currently screaming at DH after throwing her books in his face whilst he was trying to read them to her.

Fliight, I'm also interested (not at all critical, just curious) If I don't pick up on this behaviour now, and show her it is wrong, when do I begin? what happens if she is this bad at 4 or 5 - I will be completely out of my depth?

she won't be this bad at 4 or 5 - they rarely, rarely are!!! Ds1 was a bit terrible at about 2 and 3, but now he is nearly 7 and pretty delightful, well when he;s not over tired etc.

Seriously - I used to go mad at him, I even smacked him sometimes, it was awful - i felt totally desperate and very scared of him. But that age IS mad, they are very cross little things because they can see all these things they want to be able to do, and can't. (apparently)

ds2 I know they grow out of it so can afford not to be afraid of him. Itw as just that thing of being scared of the future with ds1 that got us into the state we were in iyswim.

Confidence factor in parenting is HUGE - they are tiny - they need to know you are not afraid of them, and tbh I am still rubbish at this with ds1, but feel totally confident with ds2.

They pick up on it. She may sense your fear and need to control, and be reacting to it.

It's very hard to be confident with a small child when you don't feel it. That's why they are better behaved with grandparents who have 'seen it all before'.

hope you can find a way not to go through this all again tomorrow! i know it is hellish.

All the examples you give are when you are doing something with her - painting with her, reading to her. Do you think you're trying too hard?

Just say 'No' to bad behaviour and don't sweat it. Praise the good stuff. She'll learn as she matures - it's a gentle process. Five year olds don't act like two year olds unless something has gone seriously wrong.

carmensandiego you made me think. She has cried most of today because I put her in time out - Or she tantrummed because she didn't get her own way, but a lot of it was because I reacted to her behavour. She very, very rarely plays by herself. If she doesn't have us playing with her ten her behaviour turns very naughty - think stamping on the dog or hitting glass doors/windows with hard toys. I do play games with her which teach her to play by herself, for exapmle we get her dollies out and play feeding them, pushing hem in pushchairs etc - we also play with her ponies which she loves and stable them, feed them etc. I try and get her started and sit back as much as I can to allow her to play by herself. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't - depends on the day.

Hassled I DO treat her as if she is much older you are right. I am aware of this and it does bother me. I often feel as though I am expecting her to behave perfectly, and that upsets me - I really hope she doesn't think my love is conditional upon her behaving herself, I do try and explain that I dislike the behaviour and that I love her, but she is much too young to understand that.

fliight I have a problem with chilling out a bit - I always have had But I really do need to try don't I?

Carmen a lot of the time we are with her, there is no other alternative, she is not that kind of child. But believe me, the episodes are far more frequent if we walk away from her, even to go to the loo - or try to allow her to play by herself. AARRGHH I'm starting to really over-think this now.

Oh and I am sure tomorrow will be fine. Last time (a coule of months back) we had a day this bad, dd woke up and said "good morning mummy, I'm going to be nice today, not naughty and you won't shout" It mde me really sad, but also quite amazed that her behaviour really was that deliberate (she was delightful that day btw)

She will be fine . You sound like a thoroughly nice, thoughtful person who's doing her best in what is a bloody difficult job. As long as she knows she's loved, it will all come good.

If it helps, my DCs are all older now - two of them are grown up - and that 2-3 year old stage was by far the worse. Early teenage years aside, it only gets better. Just practice gritting your teeth and counting to ten a lot .

''yes we have been to the beach for a walk today, then to a cafe/farm shop and then to a garden centre to choose easter eggs for our family. We were in a lot this morning though, well for about 4 hours whilst the rest of the world woke up.''

wow. my dd is nearly 4 and she would be very tired after all that. maybe you need to just slow it all down a bit?

You do sound lovely. I just think children (and their parents) are sometimes happier left to their own devices. I've got a rather boisterous toddler too but because he's got big sisters, a lot of the time he has to entertain himself while I'm busy with them - I don't have time for lots of activities. Minor stuff like toy bashing goes ignored but over the top 'naughtiness' gets a "No" and then (very rarely) putting in the travel cot to chill out for a few minutes if he's doing something destructive or obnoxious and doesn't stop.

This is just a suggestion, but perhaps a safe area for your dd might be an idea with toys she can bash, no dog and no plate glass. Let her be 'naughty' there and figure out how to entertain herself a bit. After she's tried the attention-grabbing things she may create her own games.

It will all get better though as she grows. The terrible twos have that name for a reason

thanks all , oh and I'm not that lovely

the wine is opened and dd is asleep and therefore quiet

tomorrow I shall no doubt be posting about my wonderful 2 year old, and boasting about her abilities, but god has today been AWFUL

thank you for allowing me to vent as well as giving me really sound advice.

I am the last person to say anything as my PFB is only 9.5 months, but I honestly think you are doing too much with her. A walk and 2 shops? No wonder she's melting down, she's exhausted! Heck I'm exhausted just reading about it!

She is very young. I think you may be expecting too much from her and from you. She won't be doing stuff on purpose to annoy you, honestly. My 5yo (dry from 20 months) wet himself recently because he was too busy playing outside.

The throwing paint and throwing books is probably her way of saying she doesn't want to do that anymore. She can't articulate properly yet. Lots of 2yo don't like listening to stories at the exact time that someone chooses to read to them.

They do daft things at this age. My niece emptied my laundry basket into a full bath yeaterday for the pure joy of it. She wasn't being naughty (although I did tell her to stop and she had to get the clothes back and hang them on the clothes horse). She was just being 2.

THis all sounds pretty normal to me. My DD was a v early crawler (5mths), walker (7mths behind trolly, 11mths on her own) and talker and was constantly constantly active. I nearly went demented with it.

Have to say though I bought Toddler Taming by Christopher Green and that helped me no end (some people don't like it but I swear by it). Basically though what he says is ignore as much as possible, distract when you can (my DD would not be distracted though unless it was something amazing and even then would go back to what she was whinging about afterwards) and use time out when necessary.

It is a difficult age and it will pass. DD is now 4 1/2 and is a great kid who is 99% of the time very good.

PS - Your DD sounded tired to me today. What you described was a very busy day.

My DS would have done all that in an hour at that age and then found a whole lot of new stuff to do for the rest of the day. He drank out of a covered cup till around 3 because he used to throw his cup every single meal. I couldn't use time out until he was 3 because I knew I couldn't enfore it. He's 3.9 now and much much better. He's still difficult sometimes but he doesn't throw things and he's responsive to discipline. He behaves very well at preschool.

You've had some great advice and will hopefully wake to an easier day.

I agree with pick your battles though. If she consistently spills her drink, maybe a covered cup? That's what I've just done with my 3.2 yo, explaining that she was spilling every meal and so we were going back to a sippy cup (not in a punishment way, hard to explain but it was a nice conversation).

The violence/hitting thing is something my 22mo had just started. I've spoken to nursery about it so we deal in the same way. She gets moved from what she was playing with and told we don't hit our friends, hitting's not nice, etc.

But at this age, mainly ignore. Ignoring is incredibly powerful. It sounds like your dd really wants your full attention (as well as the usual 2yo stuff of Wanting To Be In Charge Of The World and getting very cross when this turns out not to be possible). Probably the worst punishment for her would be to lose your attention. So try to ignore/walk away from anything that isn't immediately violent or dangerous (to dog or window etc). I'm sure you know all this already.

She is very young and you wonder why she can seem so grown up in some ways but not in others but it is all about impulse control. She's not a little grown up she's just 2. At around 3, the lovely child that I knew was hiding in dd1 started to emerge. It does get better.

I hope today goes better for you today; I think we all have days where it just feels like the. day. from. hell . I had one last week. Either because grown ups are tired/ under the weather, children are tired/ under the weather, things just go wrong, timings clash or a combination of all of the above.

I would also echo the thought that maybe she was exhausted after all that? DD1 is 3.3 and seriously, the walk on the beach would sometimes be enough for her for one day! She still occasionally has naps, she usually refuses but still needs down time EVERY day. The only way I have managed to get her to have that is to tuck her up on the sofa, under a blanket with Cbeebies on. I leave her there while she is still - some days it's half an hour, other days it's 2 hours. Whilst I hate the television being on for that long she does need that rest time.

Having said that, she has a friend of the same age who can cope with a lot more activity (although she does then have complete meltdowns later in the day) and DD2 is never going to be a sit down in front of the TV sort of child so I'm not sure what I'll do if she is still in desperate need of some rest in the middle of the day.

Good luck today

You need to ignore your child a lot, lot more. If you constantly react to her behaviour, she will get used to that as her entertainment.

My DD walked at 10.5 months and has always been very active and needed very little sleep (never any more than me, really). I ignored her for a good part of every day and let her get on with playing on her own.

I agree with what others have said - I think you need to ignore a lot more of her behaviour, and stick to a firm 'NO, we don't do that' and then move on. The strategies you are using (time out, followed by reviewing the situation, expecting an apology etc) are brilliant - but not for a 2.6 yr old. This is more 4 / 5 yr old and up stuff. They are too little to concentrate on it all, talking through it becomes 'la la la I can't hear you.....' They need simplicity - a NO and remove from situation sure, but not so much punishment and analysis.

When my DD1 was that age i was JUST the same as you. I expected way too much from her and treated her like she was older, followed similar strategies to you and wondered why they weren't working. When DD2 got to this age it was so clear to me how little she still was and how much better it was to use more basic techniques and lower my expectations. I was much calmer, much better at ignoring bad behaviour and moving on. Much better at simply saying no and removing her from a situation without getting angry. And guess what - life was WAY easier with her. Somehow with DD2 I didn't seem to set myself up for the battles I had with DD1