It is like living in hell......

[beesonmummyshead]

dd is 2.6. She is my pfb, and grandparents first grandchild (on both sides) Grandparents look after her 2 days per week whilst I work. They (obviously) spoil her and give her undivided attention.

She is an incredibly demanding child. Think velcro baby, walked at 9 months, spoke at 12 months and doesn't pause for breath most days she speaks or sings so much.

Today she has made my life hell by:

Throwing her paint across the living room whilst we were painting.

Weeing in the dining room (she has been dry for 4 months, day and night and has NEVER wet herself)

tipping her drink over the table with our food on it.

Pulling my hair until it hurts and refusing to let go - then swinging on my hair.

I act consistently, as does DH. Each time she has to go outside whichever room she is in for time out. We ignore her tantrums, screaming and kicking walls during this time. She stays out there until she is calm enough, and WE are calm enough for her to return, normally a couple of minutes. She gets told off VERY firmly (she also made me shout at her today by pulling on my hair). When she returns we recap what made us all so angry, what is not acceptable and why she went outside. She then apologises and we make friends and resume playing. She also loses the paint, or whatever else she threw for the rest of the day.

But it is hell isnt it? She has spent most of today crying, I have spent most of today ignoring her, DH and I have rowed which we hardly ever do, and really I am considering adoption . How lng does this last? Am I doing anything which encourages her to act like this do you think? I cannot have another day like today, so your advice would be incredibly welcome whilst I dream about opening that bottle of wine in an hour or so

Only read the first page so I may well be repeating everything you've already been told but this is pretty much a standard day with a 2 yr old in my opinion! My ds is 2.7 and has been dry for a while but occassionally if he's distracted or really upset, he wets himself. I just clean him up and remind him that he needs to go to the toilet and that's it, no point in getting wound up about it. I still pee a bit whenever I sneeze so I can't blame my 2 yr old for doing it.

Spilling drinks is a regular occurrence in our house. They may seem to be clever and have mastered a lot of skills at this age but they do get distracted, silly or just angry and things get thrown or spilt. Again really not a big issue, just wipe itup and carry on unless it was thrown in anger in which case I do say 'we don't throw drinks, it makes a mess' then when he is calm I just ask him why he was angry in the first place.

I find ignoring my ds when he's crying actually makes him worse if he is in full blown tantrum mode because he actually gets so upset he litterally can not calm down so needs my help (very rare he gets that bad though). I just hold him but don't try to talk or reason with him because he just finds something to argue with or disagree with which prolongs the tantrum. Wait til he's calmed down and then praise him for being calm and ask him to put into words what he was cross about.

I can relate to A LOT of what Fliight says though, it's all about parenting confidence and sadly they all require different parenting! I was terrified of my ds when he was younger, he was a velcro baby, needed a lot of motion and stimulation or else he screamed constantly. My condidence plumeted and it did effect our relationship for the first 18 months, he was VERY demanding and I felt powerless.

He's probably still fairly demanding now (like most 2 yr olds!) but I feel so much more in control now I can actually communiucate with him and he doesn't scream and cry all day.

All you describe sounds perfectly normal behaviour, not to trivialise what you are going through though cos believe me I know it's hard. Somedays are just one long count down til bedtime but most days are lovely if you look beyond all the annoying toddler habbits that they all have and just relax. She will be lot more calm if you are xxxx

It sounds to me that you are spoiling her with the attention. Of course she's going to throw stuff and pee because it gets you there!

As for painting: you can either NOT paint, limit the amount of paint she has available and let her paint on her own or take her to a messy play activity. I go to one and the parents/grandparents there say they don't have paint/messy stuff at home so the only chance their kids have to paint is during the messy play session.

Pouring her drink onto food: don't give her a drink until she's finished eating.

Take her out to a soft play centre or get your hubby to take her. Lots of fun but no mess at home.

To be honest it sounds like she is feeding off of you. You need to step back and be you sometimes instead of mum 24/7. Show her that she doesn't control you, which at the moment, she does.

gosh I didn't expect more replies today so thank you

Today has been much easier, and thank you for all of your tips. You are right, she does try and control me, and screams/kicks/tntrums if I try to have an adult conversation. It is easy to ignore this behaviour if I am on the phone as I just walk away. It is however, very hard to ignore when DH and I are talking to each other, and somehow I can't see us walking frm room to room whilst trying to talk . I will step back, I'm not at all scared of her or her reaction, TBH I don't bother if she tantrums, but I don't like seeing her upset and when she is crying because I have ignored her (to do my own thing) I agree, that upsets me - I think she has learnt this art of manipulation though so I shall try to ignore as much as possible.

We are an outdoors family so whilst I agree that dd could have been tired yesterday, it is not unusual for us to spend long periods of time out of doors - we have a dog and live withing walking distance of the moors and regularly go for 2 mile-ish walks as well as other stuff in the day, dog walking is always just part of everyday life.

meandjoe I used to read your posts a fair bit when dd was a baby, because your ds sounded just like my dd. I never posted though, because I had none of the answers you were looking for, being in the same boat , and I agree that these days are soooo much easier than the baby days - in fact I'm not really sure why I am complaining

so today we have spent the morning indoors (and i sat with her and allowed her time to play with her dolls and kitchen) whilst encouraging from afar. We then went to our local aquarium where we are members and ran around there for a while as well as doing some crafts and soft play in there, then we went for lnch at my mother-in-laws who she loves, then walk on the moors and tonight we went out for a family meal with my family who all played with her and coloured with her whilst we waited for the food to arrive. It has been a lovely day and perhaps because I am more relaxed, she is too.

I have taken a lot from all of you so thank you. My aim is to be relaxed, unbothered by whinging/crying/tantrums and to persist with encouraging dd to play by herself a little more, as well as to try not to do too many activities in one day.

Thank you again.

glad you had a better day today!
I too think that the behaviour you list is pretty normal for the age. When kids this age are tired, they can be MONSTEROUS!! Your day today sounds lovely, but even still, quite tiring for a small child, Does she ever nap in the day? If not, I would be seriously be bringing her bedtime forward to about half six...
With the water pouring, I have been there, its so so annoying, and disrupts the whole meal. I gave mine cups with a lid and a straw when they did this. I know what all the books say about open cups, but trust me, save your sanity and get a lidded cup till she forgets about how fun it is to pour, then she can go back to a normal cup agian!
Also, you can get pens with paint in - you can get them in Wilcos and crayola do them - less mess when thrown!

Good luck, it will get easier, I really really sympathise, when you are finding things tough with kids, its so all consuming.

sorry I should have said, she dos nap for about an hour, sometimes more in the day. Because I knew we were going to have a late-ish night tonight she slept for 1.5 hours. Too much sleep impacts upon her nightime sleep though, making her very disrupted and up from about 5:30

She also has quiet periods in front of the tv, normally at about 8:30am, after her nap for up to an hour and again at 5:30 whilst I cook tea. When she is tired we read or the tv goes on, when she is on full form however we do have to go out to burn off some energy before we both go mad

Oh and an easter present from my grandma who is saying at the moment happens to be a cool drinks canister with her name on so we will use that for the forseable future, and I shall explain why to her (in a nice way)

good plan! ouch at five thirty starts lol! she'll prob calm down as she gets older, if it's any consolation, my DS1 used to be horifically tantrummy, and is very amenable now he's five....most of the time

Glad you had a better day, we all have those days where we wonder if there is anything else to be thrown at us!

My youngest is 3 and we go through late night wakings, early mornings (we've broken through the 5am starts now thankfully!), tantrums, controlling behaviour, aggression, the constant interuptions whilst having grown up conversations...the list in endless!

I said to my MiL yesterday that I know the light is at the end of the tunnel (we have 2 older children) but sometimes you just want to know how long that tunnel is!

I agree go back to a lidded cup for water and explain that she can have an open one when she stops spilling her drink-'because dinner isnt nice to eat when its all wet'.Re hair pulling just take hold of her hand and say firmly,'You are hurting mummy very much I am sad when you do that.'Keep hold of her hand until she lets go.I agree with a 2minute time out for really naughty behaviour.You sound like a lovely mumm and all will improve with time.Enjoy the wine.

Another lovely day today I am pleased to report, despite dd eating very little except chocolate

our families have all been round to see and play with dd and we have been for a lovely walk round a beautiful lake. DD allowed DH and me to talk and we have enjoyed her immensely.

I think he so rarely has both of us home together that she expects our undivided attention when she does have us, hence the controlling behaviour until she realises the equlibrium.

Thank you again.

bbesonmummyshead - I have posted several times on mumsnet about my DD (she is 2 and 3 months) and she sounds very much like your little angel

I was going to post today, if only to make myself feel better when I found your topic. I feel like we live in hell most of the time.

After 5 consecutive days with DD at home I feel unable to cope (am also 35 weeks pregnant but know thats not really relevant) and DH (who is not 35 weeks preg) says he feels like he has gone crazy after 4 consecutive days with her. He is "joking" but I know what he means.

She is so so demanding, and increasibly naughy and aggressive. She is also beautiful, caring, funny, bright etc ... but sometimes (as I am sure you do) I think I would prefer her to be placid, simple and timid.

DD is always talking, constantly really, normally to tell others what to do or express a like, or increasingly a dislike or something. "No mummy, you not sit there, thats dadddy chair" etc etc.

Like you and your DH, I think we struggle to deal with her demands and we try to ignore her but its hard and sometimes you just feel that its ruining your time together I am genuinely glad that the easter break is over as work is time out for me, its peaceful and I can drink tea and sit down.DD nnever plays alone, except at nursery.

I am worried that we have spoilt her but I genuinely think we have tried our best not to. A new sibling arrives in 5 weeks or so (a little boy) so we will see how she handles that, and whether we cope!

Glad that you have had a better day today

oh pamelat I feel your pain , it does sound as though our dd's are very similar

work is my salvation too I only work part-time, which for me is a perfect combination and allows me to really enjoy dd.

These last couple of days have actually been really good. My tips for coping are:

1. make sure I am well fed and not tired, then ensure the same for dd.

1. stay calm and slightly "detached" or indifferent from dd, that way she can see her behaviour will not affect me emotionally.

1. smile and laugh lots.

1. rescue remedy. it truly calms me

you are faaar braver than me having another baby! congratlations. It will be another couple of years until I have the patience and strength to have another

I work part time too and even after one day back today, I feel ready to take on the world again 5 consecutive days was too much

Not brave, foolish!

Pamelat, wondered how you were getting on with the pg! How you feeling (besides dd running you ragged??). We spoke many times about your dd and my ds being so similar! So funny you say she talks constantl, my ds talks and talks and talks and can even argue with himself... litterally. Every other sentence used to start with either 'NO' 'I don't want to' 'I don't like...' or 'you're not allowed to' . Just lately he does seem to be a bit more reasonable. Most days at least.

Beesonmummys head, I've already posted to you about my ds but now he's a bit older I am finding out just how clever he is and a lot of his 'demanding' behaviour is either through frustration and his body not keeping up with his brain or just through him trying to be in control of every situation. It is such hard work and I have huge sympathy for you.

Hello meandjoe often think of you, especially if having a particulary demanding day

Sorry to hi-jack thread a little. Am doing ok pregnancy wise thank you, few aches and pains but managing with most things.

DD wise, I find she is much happier outside. This morning for example we have had 2 hours on a huge field with her friend and the pair of them have ran around and exhuasted themselves, fetching my friend and I "grass for mummy" ,very cute. Life is easier when the sun shines.

With the arrival of baby in 5 weeks or so I am not sure how she will cope. She is still a real mummys girl and because of feeding etc, I can see that I will have mainly the baby and DH will take her. I would say her behaviour is even worse with DH. I think its because he doesnt "reason" with her so much, everything with DD and I is a verbally agreed compromise

Exactly the same here! DS is usually fairly reasonable for me and to dh's credit he reasons with his the same as me but anyone else being here and he is monster, just so demanding and bossy. His behaviour deteriorates the second me or dh can not talk to him every second. Very hard going sometimes.

He used to be pretty good at entertaining himself for a bit and playing on his own for short periods but just lately he has needed us there (just to watch and talk to him constantly ).

I really could not imagine having another baby with him, I fear it would be a nightmare but having said that, your dd will just have to adapt like all children do. It will be hard work but potentially could be the making of her as she will have to learn to share, wait her turn and learn she can not have every ounce of attention all the time.

Although ds requires an awful lot of input, when I am giving him that input, he is actually very well behaved and quite a reasonable toddler. I have had lots of compliments on his behaviour lately, from complete strangers. It's always good to know that actually when you put in the VERY hard work with him, it is rewarding. Of course sometimes, no matter how much work you put in, he will behave like a howling banshee but I guess the same can be said for all 2 yr olds! Kids like these are just extra intense and draining but also very special and very clever. Your dd sounds lovely as does the OPs. Good luck with everything. xxx

Beesonmummyshead, how are you finding things lately?? Does the rescue remedy actually work? I often considered buying it when ds was a baby, just the sound of his crying would set my blood pressure soaring and I was so stressed out and anxious all the time!

It really does sound as if our children are cut from the same cloth perhaps we should get together, at least we'd not feel any pressure for our children to 'behave' !

Actually DD is really ill, we're on day 5 of a D&V bug. she's not eaten anything since Sunday and just lies on the sofa all day she is o thin I can count all of her ribs and vertebrae I would happily go back to her demaning, bossy self (although I will admit to enjoying one or two days of peace ) I've not been into work this week and I am getting a leeetle bored now, becaus I can't actually do anything except sit on the sofa (and mumsnet of course)

Rescue remedy is amazing stuff. It just takes away all of those ridiculous irritations that normally go round your head. I wish I had used it when dd was younger.

beesonmummy and meandjoe, am off to buy rescue remedy!!

Sometimes I wonder whether its me getting things out of perspective with DD but in fact other people, my family, the in laws and DH, all struggle with her much more than I and say that she is very demanding of me, but that they couldnt cope. You dont really have a choice!

let me know how you get on with it, it has certainly helped me