Friend smacking her 11 month old twins

[Pknickers]

Just wondering if anyone can advise me. A good friend of mine has 11 month old twins. She is struggling to deal with them and has told me that she has slapped them when they have been crying or, as she puts it, "annoying" her.

The first time she told me this I was so surprised and told her that I didn't think it was a good idea and that if a baby is crying, slapping it isn't likely to help the situation - surely they will only cry more. She seems to get very frustrated with them. Her husband isn't working at the moment so they are both at home taking care of the kids - in other words she does have help with them.

I don't know what to say to her to try to stop this yet also not have her feel judged and unsupported. I don't support her behaviour but I love my friend and I'm worried about her kids. Any ideas?

Twins of that age are very hard work. I know someone who only manages because her mother is very hands on, most days. If her DH isn't working she is bound to be under even more stress. I would encourage her to talk to her HV, find out about local twin clubs for her, offer to have one of them for a few hours so she can have one baby to herself.

Thanks for that, piscesmoon, good idea to see if she can get some help with them and try to have them one at a time every so often....

She needs time out.

Without wanting to get flamed but maybe a bit of routine/structure might help? E.g. Play time, outings at certain times etc.
Also definitely getting help is a good idea and going to mum & baby groups, local children centre.
Perhaps there are certain times of the day when they're harder e.g evenings/lunchtimes etc? Might be worth your friend having a chat and identify these times - it could help her rationalise why they're behaving as such eg they could be bored/tired/hungry and make it a bit easier to handle it?

There should be some sort of twin group meet-ups in the local area. I personally don't have twins but knew someone who did, and I went along with DS to see what it was like (being nosey!). It's a great support network because all the mums there can relate to how stressful it is looking after their twins. And from that, she can perhaps meet up with a few of them at a restaurant for lunch regularly, or at the park.

I think for any mum getting out of the house helps with these kinds of situations - it breaks the monotony.

I take my hat off to those with twins - makes me feel guilty for complaining about raising the one child!

How did she respond, when you told her you thought it probably wasn't a good idea?

Don't like the idea that she says they are "annoying her". She definitely needs to get some more support.

I actually, if I'm totally honest, feel a bit judgy on this one but then again, I do not have the foggiest about what it would be like to have twins so should try not to judge her.

I think, though, if it was a post about the father slapping the babies and saying they annoyed him, there'd be a lot of anger directed towards him and I can't really see that it's different when it's the mother.

Is she slapping their faces, do you know, or are we talking about something like a little slap on the arm?

dorothea I'm with you on this one. I judged and think slapping them is wrong. And I don't think it matters where!

I get annoyed with my 4 month old but put him down and walk away (making sure he's safe like in his cot!)

yes it must be so so hard looking after twins, but slapping at 11 months? What happens when they get to the terrible twos? Maybe the friend told pknickers as a cry for help?

Thanks for all that. I do get over to see her as much as I can - I have a 10 month old so we have gone through all the new mum stuff together - feels a bit like the blind leading the blind sometimes but still! When I go to see her the last thing she wants is for me to take one or both twins and her go out/ to sleep - she wants to see me and chat - I think that helps her more.

We are over in Ireland so I don't think it's as well set up as in the UK in terms of support groups etc but there must be something, even if not specifically for twins.

Her situation is also that they were very premature and also conceived via IVF so I think having longed for them she now feels terrible guilt about her feelings regarding the reality of dealing with them.

Igglybuff - you're dead right about the routine - for a long time they had none and it is only recently they have started a routine which has really helped, but I think she needs even more than that. I think the "trigger time" notion is also brillient.

I'll have a chat with her about all this, thanks again!

Thanks for all that. I do get over to see her as much as I can - I have a 10 month old so we have gone through all the new mum stuff together - feels a bit like the blind leading the blind sometimes but still! When I go to see her the last thing she wants is for me to take one or both twins and her go out/ to sleep - she wants to see me and chat - I think that helps her more.

We are over in Ireland so I don't think it's as well set up as in the UK in terms of support groups etc but there must be something, even if not specifically for twins.

Her situation is also that they were very premature and also conceived via IVF so I think having longed for them she now feels terrible guilt about her feelings regarding the reality of dealing with them.

Igglybuff - you're dead right about the routine - for a long time they had none and it is only recently they have started a routine which has really helped, but I think she needs even more than that. I think the "trigger time" notion is also brilliant.

I'll have a chat with her about all this, thanks again!

Dorothea, when I told her I didn't think it was a good idea she sort of giggled like she knew it was wrong and also that I wouldn't approve. To be honest, my instinct was a bit judgy too but I thought it would be more helpful for her to feel that she could talk to me about it openly rather than get judged by me.

I don't know where she was slapping them - I don't think it was like hard smacks on the face but I still think it's concerning no matter where she is hitting them...

I dont know about Ireland, but here you can arrange parenting classes through your HV.

Do you think you think she would be offended if you suggest this - they help with things like discipline, sleep, etc so could be of great help to her.

I think she would be offended if I suggested parenting classes, although it's a really good idea. It's true they won't have a clue why she is slapping them, it just seems totally counter productive to me but then I guess logic goes out the window when stressed/ v tired.

It may be that getting some more sleep is the answer - it seems to be non-stop if it isn't one of them then it's the other. I can't imagine doing it myself, am knackered enough with just one.

Agree it is concerning no matter where she slaps; I just wondered.

They are eleven months old -- as Igglybuff says, it's hard work but it's only going to get tougher in the toddler years. And as jajas says, lack of sleep makes everything seem upside-down and makes one's fuse very short (I recall upending a blender full of cauliflower puree onto the kitchen floor and collapsing in sobs while DS howled in his high chair one afternoon long ago...).

But the thing is, nothing you or anyone can do will guarantee that your friend gets more sleep; routines etc can help a lot but really, she needs to learn to deal with her feelings safely even when exhausted.

She needs to acknowledge that it's basically wrong to slap babies, and that it's her responsibility to get herself under control no matter how frustrating she finds them.

Maybe parenting classes, as suggested, would help. Whether it is something that can come from you, I don't know -- I appreciate that you may be able to do more good by staying on terms where she feels she can be really open with you. But she needs someone to help her see a better way of handling her feelings.

I wish I had a clear helpful suggestion; I don't really know what else to say

I'm really sorry that I keep posting without waiting for anyone else to have a turn! But:

"terrible guilt about her feelings regarding the reality of dealing with them"

ok, but if the result of this guilt is that she is now taking her negative feelings out on them by slapping ... that seems quite warped. I am sure feelings like hers are very common but they don't always lead people to hit their children.

The more I think about it, the more it sounds like she really needs, I don't know, counselling or something.

Sorry for rambling on and on with my drip-feed of opinions.

Thanks Dorothea, I don't really know how she would react to a suggestion of counselling... She's not slapping the kids because she feels guilty, she feels guilty because having wanted kids for ages she is now struggling with them and she thinks that having finally got what she wanted she should be on Cloud 9 all the time....

Sorry, you do not hit babies. Ever. End of.

(Rollmops, Mum of 2.3 year old twins, have never had any help with them, families are far and DH is working.)

It does come down on how relaxed you as a Mum are, even now, we don't have the terrible twos, in fact, I believe it's nonsense, children at that age are frustrated over their inability to communicate properly and often act out. Nothing pre-programmed, just part of normal toddler development.

i often think the slapping thing is a lot of the time down to how our mothers responded to us. Even if you consciously know it's wrong; in the heat of the moment the unconscious takes over.
I'll never forget one of my toddler group acquaintances saying she slapped both of her twins faces when they tried to touch a plant in her house!!! i couldn't bear to talk to her afterwards. Not a positive reaction from me I know but it upset me so much. (her twins were very repressed children).i did say at the time you must not hit their faces.

Every parent I know knows it is not the best idea to slap their children. IMVHO, if she confidied in you that she had, it means that she is in a way asking for some kind of help.

She must be under a lot of stress to have gone to that extent and I for one do not think that pointing a finger at her telling her "you should not have done it you bad bad woman "will help her in the slightest.

OP You seem concerned for her as well as her DCs And I think it is a good starting point to help. Can you have her arround at yours for a cuppa (with the DCs) every now and then so she can sit down and chat with a "human bean" (read adult).

After DD1 was born, the loneliness drove me insane (DH working shifts so barely seing him, parents/family on the continent, no friends because we had just moved) so mostly just DD and me. I never hit her but remember feeling like doing it was terrible guilt on the top of everything else so I can only imagine what she is going through (guit wise) after having actually done it. I think what your friend has done cannot be undone but a bit of compassion and support could go a long way to make sure it does never happen again.

Hi as a mum of 5yr old twins I know exactly what she is going through - even though mine were were sleeping through the night by then and in a routine there was many a time when I cried with them.

I don't think she needs parenting classes as twins are hard work, however she should get in touch with TAMBA, they have a website, which is an organisation set up for parents who have twins triplets etc and they have groups that meet all over the country. Your friend will benefit greatly as these parents have been through or are going through the same stages as her.

I also suggest that your friend puts the twins in their buggy and takes them for a walk every day, as it will make her feel better. Good luck.

Pknickers, have you or your friend taken a look at Rollercoaster? It has local postings for Ireland, so if there are baby/toddler/twin groups you'll find them there - I've seen twin meet-ups advertised and if there aren't any if your area, she could initiate. Just look under local listings for your county.

Does she have a buggy she can leave up all the time in her hallway? I know it's not the same but I am a single parent and DS is into everything and teething, when he is really driving me mad and I feel like I want to do something drastic, I put him in the buggy (have a nice warm cosytoes so don't need to wrestle him into a coat etc) and just go out. If necessary I leave him outside the front door while I get myself ready - I live on a fairly quiet street. Being outside seems to calm him down and then it gives me a break as we go to do something.

I am lucky that there is a great toddler group on every day near me, so agree that if she can find something to do most days it helps.