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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Bed-time traumas - At my wits end with a 16 week old - any advice please?

31 replies

Mole007 · 28/12/2009 11:04

Our DS was sleeping through perfectly from around 10 weeks, happy to get himself to sleep around 8 and then sleeping through til 7ish, with DH doing the dream feed at 10.30/11 ish. As of around 2 weeks ago, something has changed, and DS is now a howling banshee for anything up to 2 hours when trying to put him to bed. We haven't changed the routine (feed at 5, bath 6.15/6.30ish, top up feed at 7, snuggles and story then bed), but he is getting himself in such a state. He cries/screams whether lying down or held, and the pick up/put down thing is not working (he just works himself up more and more so that he ends up hysterical). My parents suggested just leaving him to cry it out, but I really feel that he is to young for that....but he is essentially crying himself out anyway! He finally falls asleep with exhaustion, leaving DH and I drained. He is throughly winded (a very windy baby who needs a lot of winding), so I don't think that is the problem. The GP helpfully stated that it was colic....thought that was supposed to stop at 3 months, not start, and HV have been about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Please, has anyone any suggestions. DS is a gorgeous happy boy, and to see him so distressed every night is really not fun

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

GreenMonkies · 28/12/2009 11:11

Is this a joke?

Do people really expect a baby this young to "go to bed" like this?

Seriously??

At this age your baby should be sleeping on your lap, nursing on and off all evening and then settling for the night with you when you go to bed. The SIDS advice regarding room/sleep sharing applies to all sleeps, day time and evening, not just when you are in bed. A tiny baby like this needs to be with you, held on your lap or at least in the same room as you. Put your GF routine away just let him fall asleep when he's ready instead of setting a "bedtime". Go with the flow, not by the clock.

rubyslippedonastraymincepie · 28/12/2009 11:17

he needs more milk

DD is 12 weeks and cluster feeds until 9 pm when we both go to bed

that is usual

don't leave him to cry - offer more milk and cuddles

pu/pd is way too over stimulatuing for a baby ime ...

MmeLindt · 28/12/2009 11:29

Greenmonkies
My DD went to bed like that. She had her last feed for the night then went to bed, in our room and we were in the living room next door.

It could well be that he is going through a growth spurt and needs more milk. Do you offer more milk if he is unhappy?

Mmmango · 28/12/2009 11:29

Aw bless, do you really read him a story?

Agree with others - you were lucky to have a couple of weeks of sleeping through, but his behaviour now is more 'normal' - just keep hi with you, keep feeding, winding, feeding, winding, and take him to bed when you go.

MmeLindt · 28/12/2009 11:31

Info on growth spurts

MerlinsBeard · 28/12/2009 11:46

hey tend to have yet another growing spurt at aroud 16 weeks and it may well be that fater you have done all your normal bedtime "stuff" he needs another feed at the moment.

If you're feeding at 5 he may need a full feed again round 8 instead of the 7 o clock top up.

If you want to use that routine then by ll means do, just remember that your baby doesn't know it and will want to keep you on your toes - it's what they are invented for

thesecondcoming · 28/12/2009 12:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

care4families · 28/12/2009 16:49

This is my top tip for babies that need help sleeping. Take a muslin and place it on your chest area under your t shirt.Leave it there for several hours to pick up your scent. If you are breast feeding then use it at feeds, but not to mop up milk etc. Then place this on the top sheet under baby's head as a draw sheet, with the edges well tucked in. Your scent is very soothing for your baby because it reminds him of when he was in the womb. Breast skin and breast milk have a similar scent to amniotic fluid, so baby will remember this and feel secure.
I find that baby is less likely to wake from sleeping with this draw sheet and if they do wake they are more likely to be able to go back to sleep without crying.
If your baby has a period of 48 hours or so of disturbed sleep and feeding patterns and is not unwell, then this is an indication that they are a at significant developmental milestone. I recommend Dr B Brazeltons' books on Sleep, Crying , Feeding and his book called Touchpoints. These are all available from Amazon and he gives very sensible advice.

duchesse · 28/12/2009 17:12

My 17 week old has her last feed at around 10:30/11 and will then usually sleep until nearish 6, although she's unwell at the moment and is waking at about 3 as well. Best case scenario for her (the longest she's gone between feeds overnight) has been 10 hours, but she's definitely taken a step back. I think you just have to be philosophical about it. We found that she sleeps best of all swaddled and in our bed (although I know that's not supposed to be done any more, it works for us amnd makes for v easy feeding at night). She gets cold in her own, and tends to jerk her arms around, waking herself up again if not swaddled.

detoxdiva · 28/12/2009 17:27

GreenMonkies - how is that helpful to the op's post and question? My ds is 16 weeks and also has a bedtime 'routine' - in that he has a bath and final feed before going to sleep in his cot. It is in no way GF inspired - just what works for him, dd, and dh and myself.

Mole - I too would suggest ds is hungry and having a growth spurt as my ds is doing exactly the same thing at the moment. Maybe put back his bedtime and give him another full feed before bed to ensure he is satisfied before sleeping. It's tough but stick with it - he'll get through it before moving on to the next challenge and so will you

Original poster

Mole007 · 28/12/2009 17:46

Many thanks for your responses.

We are not following a GF type regime. DS has developed his own routine, and has surprised me by his regularity (such as refusing to accpet that the clocks had changed!) However, we do have some sort of bed-time regime as I know from very early days that letting him 'just fall asleep when he's ready' does not work. DS is far too alert and too busy watching what is going on, so needs to be taken away from all distractions and encouraged to sleep. The only book that I have looked at is the Baby Whisperer, and that only for dipping to work out how to encourage daytime naps.

Do offer more milk somtimes if the crying has gone on for a long time (he sounds so hoarse), but that then sometimes causes reflux-type reactions, or trying to wind him wakes him up even more, and he doesn't take a full feed, which makes me wonder if there is a better solution.

I'll certainly give the muslin a go, so thanks for that care4famililies.

Main thing that I am concerned about is the crying. Not being able to console him even by cuddling is soul destroying

OP posts:

FanjolinaJolie · 28/12/2009 17:57

FGS Greenmonkies that is so incredibly unhelpful.

OP Is it possibly overtiredness? Is he getting enough of an afternoon sleep? Look out for signs of tiredness and perhaps bring bedtime forward?

Offer a full feed instead of just a top-up?

Both my dd's went to bed at the same age like what you were describing it was like before. That sounds pretty normal to me. Mine fed consistantly well during the day and had no need to cluster feed all evening evenings. I BF'd and followed GF

Patting and shushing with your hand on their tummy in the dark?

Hope things get better for you.

priyag · 30/12/2009 14:56

Mole007 Can you post more details about your baby's feeding and sleeping during the day ? It is possible that he is overtired, have you tried putting him to bed earlier ? Also do you tuck him in well, at his age he will be moving around more, and perhaps he is getting unsettled if he is thrashing around too much.

Original poster

Mole007 · 30/12/2009 16:31

Priyag, he gets loads of sleep during the day. Usually around 4 hours in total, and sometimes even more. He also feeds well, and is following the weight charts perfectly. Roughly on a sort of 3 hour cycle of eating playing then sleeping, although it may slip either way if he sleeps for less or more. He snoozes in swaddling in the day and then in a gro-bag at night. We did try using swaddling at night, but he really wasn't happy with that - he likes to sleep in a Saturday Night Fever position . Last night we were down to 30 mins crying, which was an amazing improvement over the 2 hours the night before (staying with my parents for a couple of days while he's like this was never going to be a good idea , but at least we are back home now so there is some familiarity

OP posts:

SugarMagrundy · 30/12/2009 16:56

Mine did same, and the pick up/put down thing just prolonged the whole thing. After much trial and error (and after eliminating hunger of course) what soothed him best was the hairdryer noise - we laid it down on the wood floor in his room and the humming and whooshing sent him off. Weird but worked.

FanjolinaJolie · 30/12/2009 18:46

Could even be the start of teething?

2catsand1rabbit · 30/12/2009 20:46

Sorry but I'm with Green Monkies on this. Your baby just wants to be with you and be held. You've been very, very lucky that he slept through before. Sorry not to be helpful.

poddy · 30/12/2009 23:59

Just something to consider...
dd started doing this at about 7-8 weeks. It turned out she had gastric reflux - very common in small babies - and every time we lay her down the stomach acid was going back up her gullet. No wonder she was screaming! Some baby gaviscon did the trick and she grew out of it by 20 weeks.
Good luck!

LeninExcelsis · 31/12/2009 00:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

plantsitter · 31/12/2009 00:20

Agree with Greenmonkey's advice even though I think her tone is unecessarily unpleasant to someone with a 4 month old baby.

I found a bedtime routine helped at a time when their was a chance DD would sleep - probably around 9 or 10 - partly because having some sort of structure to the day helped me to feel a bit more sane.

pinchmeimustbedreaming · 31/12/2009 12:01

thought we were all in the same boat here? all parents who want the best for our babies. if you are experienced then give helpful and supportive advice, dont be nasty about it, its really hard to ask for help sometimes.
i was blessed with quite an easy boy who thrived on a routine and slept 12hrs+ from 12 weeks. i think the bottom line is you know your child best. go with your instincts. if it doesnt work try something else. all babies are different and all mummies are different. talk to your husband about how you are going to deal with it, i would suggest you dont go into the bedroom if you're getting stressed as your baby may be picking up on it.
4 months was horrible time for me, i felt overwhelmed and alone in the world with this screaming baby before me. massage little ones gums just b4 bed make sure he is full up and wind like theres no tomorrow lots of cuddles and not to much stimulating activities before bed, hope you get some ideas on how to make bedtime more relaxed from all these posts, x x

beammeupscotty · 31/12/2009 12:35

I think at 16 weeks old he has more a sense of 'self' and is aware that he doesnt have your comforting presence and becomes frightened. when youve explored all the usual, food, nappy, too warm/cold then look at various ways you can provide the 'you' security he needs. Leaving this young a baby to cry is barbaric - if a baby is crying hysterically then its usually fear of abandonment - he doesnt know youre next door! Its just a different stage in his development, babies never stay still developmentally, just when you think youve cracked it, off they go in another direction. Thats life

priyag · 31/12/2009 13:20

It is very sad that some people do not take time to read the original post properly. Mole007 makes it perfectly clear that they were trying to comfort their baby, they did not just shut him up in another room and abandon him. They were trying to comfort him.

"He cries/screams whether lying down or held, and the pick up/put down thing is not working (he just works himself up more and more so that he ends up hysterical). My parents suggested just leaving him to cry it out, but I really feel that he is to young for that....but he is essentially crying himself out anyway!"

Bicnod · 31/12/2009 13:29

I reckon it could be teething. I would offer milk and if he doesn't want that then try calpol. If it works and he calms down (and IME it works pretty quickly) then he was clearly in pain. DS is 8 months old and cut his first tooth around 5 months but they were bothering him a lot at night for about a month before that.

ten10 · 31/12/2009 13:51

my DS was just the same, he had slept through from about 10 weeks with a very similar routine to yours but at about the same time as your started being extremely upset in the evening

To get him to sleep I took to lots of rocking and cuddling (even though he was hysterical most of the time)
and also put on the same piece of music repeatedly, slowly he needed less cuddles as the music calmed him down, until a few months later he just needed the music to calm him off to sleep on his own.

he was definitely hungry and going through a growth spurt as he also started waking for a feed during the night and would feed ferociously first once a night then a few weeks later this became twice then three times, before I then weaned him and he went back to sleeping through (until his first tooth came through, but that is a different story)

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