Hand flapping in dd....

[tackyChristmastreedelivery]

.....I think I know that dd is too young for this to be an interesting trait that might point to a ASD type thing. But if I can't wonder out loud here where can I ?

DD is only 11 months, and flaps her arms when excited. SHe clenches and unclenches her fists too.

She also pats her head, left side only, and hits it with hard things. She especially like wolloping her left side with knives and forks.
So - normal stuff in this age group? or worth watching? I don't remember anything like this with dd1, but then I am rubbish at that sort of thing.

Every child is different and will have their own little ways! It doesn't sound as though you have any other worries about your dd's development - and you probably would have by now if she were displaying any sort of SN - so perhaps her current behvaiour is just a phase.

DD2 is a hand flapper, love spinning and does other weird things too. We are keeping an eye on her, and just see how she goes. She has a sister with ASD, so know what Im doing this time round.
If your worried see your HV, but other than that I would maybe suggest taking a video to show GP, if your worried in the future.
HTH

I think that if you are concerned talk to health visitor. But my Ds2 does some ASD things but is not on spectrum. Some children just like physical sensations. As a teacher I can see where you are coming from, I would just keep an eye out, distraction therapy is a good indicator. If you can distract DD out of behaviour on most occasions dont worry.

Take care

Thanks for the reply.

I am ignorant about autism [and most isms infact] so I wondered. I heard flapping can be a trait of autism, but then she is young so it is probably too early.

Her only other little things are that she is constipated, and doesn't like food or eating anymore. Started off well but now just touches things and decides they won't be eaten. Apart from that she is going great.

At 11 months, I wouldn't be concerned. Just keep an eye on how things develop, after all many children have various twitches and ticks that are just that... no links to any "ism"
That said, ds2 has a very pronounced hand flap and is dyspraxic. He is 8.6 though and the gp wasn't concerned by the flapping till he was about 7.5.

I have 2 dgc[siblings aged 9 and6]both flapped when excited from about 10 months.Dgd[9]no longer does it but dgs[6]does.Both are otherwise bright well adjusted children doing well at school and with lots of friends.I think that in isolation this isnt necessarily a problem and 11 months is too young to be concerned.

Thanks for the replies folks.

I wouldn't feel too frightened if these were likely clues. I think the family would crack on and cope with such a thing, what choice do any of us have anyway?

I think 11 months is too young too, but I wondered. Everytime she does it I wonder, I think that could have the potential to be more of a worry than any diagnosis iyswim!? It's draining!!

tacky It really probably is nothing to worry about, - however, I would still take her to some HCP (maybe write to them first to outline your concerns). You won't get anywhere as she is so young, but if you have record of these things raised now, you are in a better position to hit the ground running if things develop. Waiting lists when you ned them are unreasonably long so it could help you jump any queues in the future.

hth

That does help. Thank you. I know exactly what you mean - getting anyone to listen to me when she had 'colic' was like howling at the moon. Even now she has a dairy intolerance confirmed by consultants, they don't seem to think the 6 months they fobbed me off is any problem .

So yes. Maybe I'll mention it at next weigh in/gp appointment. Just in case.

tacky if she has dairy intolerance is it possible she may be gluten intolerant? Could that explain the constipation and not wanting to eat?

I wouldn't worry about hand flapping just yet but I would go to your GP just so they can make a note of it as it may help your case later down the line if anything does come of it IYSWIM.

Hmm. Interesting navyeyelasH. I said I was avoiding it to the dietician, but she said that gluten problems would mean ceoliacs and that she had none of the severe side effects. So I dunno. Is there a gluten intolerance that isn't full blown ceoliacs?

The dietician has advised more wheat to speed up her gut.

It's a minefield!

if she's constipated, she won't want to eat as she'll be feeling 'full' and uncomfortable

what are her other motor skills like? I only ask as ds2 flapped at that age and still does (he's 10 now) and is dyspraxic, hypermobile and has chronic constipation because of his low muscle tone

Most of the time his constipation is under control, but when it all goes pear-shaped (like now) he barely eats anything because he feels slightly sick, headachey and full all the time

It may well be nothing at all with your dd - ds1 also flapped at 10 months but had stopped soon after a year - but with ds2 I feel all his 'things' are linked, so it is worth keeping an eye on it, although worrying about it won't change anything - and I'm afraid that you will be fobbed off at this stage by the medical profession as what she's doing is currently well within the realm of 'normal'

My DD is almost 11 mo and flaps her hands when excited. Thought it's normal at that stage?

I think it is one of the developmental thinfs winnybella, but when I see her doing it I do wonder. She seems very happy doing it, if that makes sense. Not like when she is standing and bopping up and down for fun or in excitement. When she flaps and wollops her head she seems totally absorbed, like it's another world for her. Yet excitement triggers it, though often she just does it unstimulated.

Or maybe I just need to get out more

Motor skills, like grabbing and holding etc? All good. She is also very very interactive, loves people and cuddling into your face and shnugles in general. I have a view that she would be more distant and less likely to interact had she the aspects of autism or some other. That would be based on my own total lack of knowledge and un informed judgements however!

Have I dreamnt it, or do children with autism get these things but then loose them rather than never getting them at all?

On the constipation, we now have lactalose and suppositories for emergency shifting. It does totally effect your appetite, I agree. DD1 suffered long and hard so we are being very proactive with dd2, we feel we failed dd1 by normalising it.
Incidentally, a chiropractor has completely rid dd1 of 5 years of constipation. She needs her neck adjusting about once a fortnight. Works like some sort of miracle. She usually goes about 3 times the day she sees the chiro, then daily. Praise be!

Hmmm...my DD does it when she's excited, for instance when I walk in the room and coo' oh, would dd like a biscuit?' and it's more of bopping up and down with the arms going up and down iyswim.She does for few seconds, or maybe sometimes longer, but never for minutes.
After reading your post I googled 'baby hand flapping' and second or third one down was some research done in Israel and they listed behaviours that can be observed in babies that can be signs of ASD. I only read about hand flapping and they say it is observed ichildren with ASD but also in NT ones, but with them in normally goes away after few months.Have a look.
At the same time it's so easy to panic. What is your feeling? You know, do you feel like there is something wrong, really?
Banging on the head is not rare, from what I remember.

My feeling is.....dunno. Is that helpfull?

My only feeling really is that she is ace, and can have ASD if she is meant to. We will deal and adjust if we have to.

My feeling is, I think, that I want to know asap. Rather than stumble about in the dark. That would scare me. Whereas to know would be ok.

From her pov, I think not. On the whole I think it is a phase of behaviour, I guess we'll see. Interesting though.

What about you winnybella - hope I haven't triggered a worry where there was none!

No, don't worry, I think DD is just being a baby!
In any case, it's too early to try to diagnose your DD, and frankly, if you say she's responsive, likes cuddling etc., I wouldn't worry yet.
I think a lot of babies engage in repetitive behaviours, banging their heads against cot sides etc. and it's normal. I would ask at your next doctor's appointment for advice, maybe do a video of her while she's doing it?

I'm afraid Tacky that you're not going to know any time soon ... the diagnostic process doesn't work like that and she's way too young

just remember that the term ASD covers a huge spectrum and some children are very severely affected, but others have fairly minor difficulties in some areas - and there are an awful lot of children exist in a sort of grey area where ASD and NT meet who will never get any formal diagnosis of anything but whose parents persist in thinking there's something 'not quite right'

fwiw ds2 loves flapping - it's one of his great pleasures and he'll talk quite happily about having a 'really good flap' about something (usually lego related ) - it used to be triggered by external visual stimuli (fountains, leaves blowing in the wind, raindrops on the window etc) but now it's more often triggered by an internal thought (lego star wars mostly, although apparently today he was having a really good flap about ninja penguins )

it used to freak me out when I saw him doing it, especially in public, but he rarely does it when we're out and about now - it's obviously a 'treat' reserved for home now ...
and it's something I've just got used to as it's part of him

Thanks for all these insights.

I think the whole not knowing would be very challenging for me, although I am not even in a position where I have anything to know really. DD just has a thing she does. It may or may not go away, I am cool about watching it for a good long time yet. The grey area would be challenging for me personally, but I guess I'd have to get used to it!

The way you describe the flapping thing makes it sound really quite lovely mimsum, a completely unharmfull, sensible way of coping with the world. I know a few adults who sound like they could profit from a good flap! Beats the grumps, anxiety and panic by the sound of it.

dd4 has started hand flapping. and shaking her head, and bopping her own head with her fist. she is 2months older than your dd. she has a dairy allergy as well. she doesnt suffer constipation though, she has mucousy-runny stools instead which are revolting.

dd4 is a funny old thing though. hypermobile in legs and hips, and hyperflexiable.

Ah yes. Mucousy stools. My total sympathy. They smell so bad don't they. Is there some dairy worming it's way into her diet or has it never resolved?

What does hypermobility and flexibility look like then? dd2 is very bendy, but then they are aren't they?

I have worked with children with celiacs/intolerances/and allergies to wheat, gluten and dairy etc and from my understanding you can be intolerant to gluten and wheat but not have celiacs. But as far as I am aware GPs don't typically recognise an intolerance, only an allergy. But I am not a medical professional so don't take my work as gospel.

Lots of NT children and even adults hand flap especially when excited. At 11 months no-one would diagnose your LO with anything like autism etc as she is too young to gauge. Don't worry about it for now and see how she is as time goes by. The youngest child I have met with an autism diagnosis is 23 months the youngest with dyspraxia is 26 months.

HTH.

there is some dairy leaking in via me as not been 100% lately but not directly to dd4, as that would result in possible a+e.

dd4 was referred to orthapaedics as she just wasnt doing things properly and the HV' werent sure if it was a hip problem. dd1 is very bendy, so i felt it was related to that aspect. dd4 was dx last month with benign joint hypermobility. just means we have to just handle her a bit more carefully as she may be prone to dislocations, and to try and build her strength up as well. she is now cruising and crawling, and learnt to roll a week before she turned 1year old. her ankles and hips are a little loose, and we are waiting on the hip x-ray results as well, as she leans to one side when sitting.

Thank you. It does help very much.

I'm not worried as such, am interested, but not worrying and stressing. Don't want anyone to think I am - apart from it being waaaay too early in her life, I am not the type to freak at the prospect anyway.

So will take this good advice and keep an eye on it in a general way.

I think I will try to find more out about the gluten thing. Interesting. It would be a bugger as one of the few things she has eaten in the last month are bread sticks!

you know, tacky, although I used to look at ds flapping with something akin to horror, now I see it as a positive part of him - he is a lovely, happy, rather other-worldly little boy and the flapping helps him make sense of it all

you asked what hypermobility looks like - well in ds2 it looks very angular iyswim - he's got very long, very thin limbs which stick out at slightly the wrong angle when he moves, especially when he runs (think large, anorexic spider and you'll get the picture)

It didn't really become obvious to us until he started walking - he'd been slightly later than average on reaching other milestones but not dramatically so but developed an odd gait when he started walking/running

It's not a major problem, even though we were warned he has very unstable shoulder joints he's never dislocated anything and although he takes much longer to get the hang of physical skills he gets there in the end