Would like some advice.

[FiveGoMadInDorset]

This will be long and I apologise in advance.

DD will be 4 in January.

Up until 2 was a breath holder for the next year she screamed so much she made herslf sick and now she has what I can only describe as rages, she hits, bites scratches, does not understand what you are saying. The only way we have found to deal with these is to let her in her room and rage, (and then clear up) until she is calm enough and lucid enough to take on board what you are saying.

Generally she is very good. Has always been a good sleeper until December 2008 when we cam back from a holiday and she took 4 months into settling to sleeping, waking up screaming saying there was a man in her room. We took it in turns to sleep on the sofa as we had paying guests in. This gradually calmed down until she slept through. This November we moved her to a new bedroom and going through the process again, now she tends to come into our bed about 3 and stays so one of us will end up on the sofa.

So she doesn't like nor seems to cope with change. This is also manifesting itself in constipation which started when we moved out for a week as we were having some buidling work done.

The rage on Christmas Night was the fact that her duvet wasn't on the right way round, todays one, I was drying some duvets that I had washed and she wanted them to come in as she was scared they would blow away. She always has to wear her stripey hat. (she has just come into the kitchen crying asking if the duvets are dry yet). If her brother (18 months) soes something teh wrong way or goes where he should'nt, then that starts her off again. She is quite precise in what she likes.

She likes nursery, but I guess that is routine based aswell. She panicked when we went in at 9am once instead of 8.

We don't go out together alot as she panicks if we get a different babysitter in (ours is very popular).

She is very polite, and well behaved the vast majority of the time, please and thank yous, is good to take shopping, enjoys her swimming lessons, and her bike riding.

She is also very sociable, we have a lot of people through our house and go out and about to see people. It is just weird these episodes.

DH has just said things should be where they should be and she can't cope well if they are different.

Does this sound normal 3/4 year old behaviour or should we have some concerns.

Thank you for reading this.

She would find it hard at school, so be ready for that. It looks like she have a habbit of being left at her own, she knows nothing better that have rage after rage. You need to help her now, take her to the GP and explaine the situation - it will get worse.

Sorry, didn't explain myself, the rages are rare and are not when she is told no. She is very amenable o being told no. It is just the slightest change to something. The duvet covers were on a wall, which turned out o be the problem. If they had been on the washing line or in the druyer then it would have been fine. Just would like to know if it is normal. nad we do not let her get away with anything.

And she is not left on her own.

Fanny - nothing to add i'm afraid, but wanted to say i hope someone comes along who can help

Wish I could help Five but I have no experience of this.

The only thing that sprang to mind for me was slight Aspergers but only because my DN has Aspergers and he finds it very difficult to cope with change. He will fly into a rage if something isn't just as it should be.

However, he has a milion more things I could tell you about, but your DD only seems to lose it when routine and the norm is changed. She is also very young and nothing is ever very clear when they are that age.

Fingers crossed someone with more knowledge will be along soon.

Oh you two are lovely, thank you.

She is only 3 (nearly 4).

Most of mine would be unsettled for a while after going on holiday and being somewhere different.
You also say that you have had strangers in the house (your paying guests?). Not unusual for that to be unsettling for some children.
Was one of your guests male? Is it possible that he inadvertently wandered into her room after she had gone to bed and it played on her mind?
She seems to have had quite a few changes to deal with over the last 12m. At that age I don't think it's particularly unusual for change to unsettle children. And I've also had mine having phases of throwing tantrums when things weren't how they expected them to be. But it was a phase and they grew out of it(although granted for 1 she was 7y+ before she got some control of her emotions).

I think the thing to do is when you see her becoming unsettled try to reassure her and as she becomes more secure and matures then this phase should pass. If there are going to be changes talk to her and prepare her for them beforehand so it's not out of the blue. I think most people wouldn't like to feel as though they had no control of their surroundings and little warning of what was happening so can understand how a 3yo might get agitated at it too.

Thanks juule for the reassurance. We have run a B&B since she has been 9 weeks, so people in and out of the house she can cope with. No one came in her room, to get to where she was would involve going past our room, down the stairs through the kitchen (under our room) through utility etc.

It's around this age that children's imaginations begin to develop more, too. Maybe that is happening with her and if her imagination is becoming a bit overactive then that could be quite scary for her at times.

Sorry to hear you are so worried and concerned. Even if we all came on here and told you that it is all normal behaviour, I think that it would still benefit you to talk it through with your HV, or your GP. You have obviously been concerned for a while and want to have some real advice and experience to guide you all through. I hope you find the reassurance you are looking for.

I don't know if you can believe but DH and I talked often about similar concerns with our dd1, and still do at times. We never really got to the bottom of it all, and found that it was extremely hard to make ourselves heard and understood by friends, family and professionals. I think that the way you are helping and encouraging her in coping with and dealing with her fears, anxieties and anger is great. We felt in the end that we knew best when she needed extra encouragement and support in situations, and how to give it to her. We still feel that life would have been much easier though, for her and us, if we had been supported by others and our concerns had been acknowledged. I wish we had made a professional listen to us when she was very young instead of struggling alone.

Have a look and listen to this Do you think dd would like to listen to it? I can only say great things about these CD's for my own children, and others. It helps children to learn to relax through stories and visualisation. The classes are also fantastic of course

Let me know if she'd like one, I have that one and most of the others here. Have a look at the Relax Kids main site to for info on dealing with temper tantrums, anxiety, coping with change, bed wetting, etc. Chat to you about it too if you like?

Hope you christmas has been good

This sounds as if she is on the Autistic Spectrum Disorder (ASD)- get her diagnosed as soon as poss so the help will be in place for school.

Luka, that sounds great and I am sure we would love to listen to it together.

Thank you all, will have another go with HV in New Year. It has taken a while but finally convinced DH that all may not be quite right so at least we can go in on a united front.

Will bring it with me

I think if you are worried go to the doctor to put your mind at rest.

From what I have seen of your dd I don't think she will struggle at scbool, which is also routine based. She is very sociable.

I also wouldn't let the sleep thing worry you too much, dd comes into our bed at nights as well.

DD also went through a period of having rages when she was about 3, they were mainly to do with contact with her father and we just got through them. I did however speak to someone for advice on how to handle them.

Hope you are having a lovely Christmas

Thanks Twinkle. Hope the ham was OK.

It was fab, we just has the last of it in some sandwiches. I have been in my pyjamas for 2 days now!

Darren is laughing at us chatting about ham.

Thanks for the reassuarnace aswell, Always good to know you are not the only one. My mother buys us a ham every year so we are having that tonight with eggy bread. Say Hi to Darren.

She sounds normal to me .

DS1 is a bit like this in terms of the rage thing. I think the problem is they get themselves into such a state that they can't see how to get out of it - a bit of a red mist moment.

I would be wary of people diagnosing asd just because she likes routine etc - I like order and routine but am so not asd - am just organised.

DS1 is 5 now and in yr1 at school and has far less drama queen tendencies thankfully. She sounds a lovely girl but I do think as others have said its worth getting any worries checked out with HV/GP.

Have the nursery staff any said anything to make you worry?

Nope nursery staff very happy with her, just being a worry wart as my mother would say and that as usual, I am not the only one.

When I spoke to the doctor and health visitor about dd they referred her to see someone as I was so worried. Their take on it was that she was socially immature ( which I think she still is tbh) but in other ways advanced. She was just beginning to work out that her family set up was not a "normal" one and was dealing with things she was not socially and emotionally ready for so this was coming out in rages.

I know that your dd is lucky not to have had to deal with some of the crap that my dd has had to deal with but it may just be her way of letting things out and is not something to be overly worried about.

Five - I worry about everything.

Would agree with Twinkle about social maturity. Also my DH has a temper and DS1 is very similar to him. I think its easy to forget as adults how hard it is for little children to control their emotions.

Oh God don't talk to me about tempers, mine can be bad. Thanks again, will chat with Hv but you have all put it back into perspective for me.

Off now for the evening.

I am also wondering about the man in the room thing (as Juuule remarked); despite the long distance anyone would have had to go to get to her room it seems it's quite far from your room, so you might not necessarily have heard anyone walking around at night, maybe even looking for the loo, and also it's a long distance for her to have to walk to get to your room from hers too, in the night. I remember my own DCs at age 3 and 4 being very afraid of 'monsters', not men, and I wonder if she could have encountered anyone at night that gave her a fright.

She seems to have a lot of insecurity and anxiety, perhaps taking comfort in routine. Although she is outgoing and seems to deal well with people who come and go from the house, she could be finding it difficult on some level to see so many people coming and going.

Is your DD (IYO) very bright?? I am a teacher and have seen this type of behaviour in very bright children, I think it comes from a frustration of not being fully in control of a situation - like others have said an insecurity & anxiety.

They could also be seen as aspergers symptoms but I think it may be too early for a definate diagnoses to be made. It might however be worth you mentioning it to GP so your concerns are "on file" for a later date should you need to explore that route.

Is DD at State Nursery? speak to the Senco -they should be able to advise you and make an initial referel should your DD require it.

Five Post on the SN boards. It does sound quite ASD-like and if so, you need to get into the system asap.

If it isn't, I still think you need to get things checked out. The very least you need is some support or coping strategies.

She is not too young for dx btw, and let absolutely NO-ONE fob you off with 'wait and see'!

hth