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i need help...what would you have done...???

86 replies

Heathcliffscathy · 28/06/2005 20:09

i've posted about ds's biting before, so i'll cut the crap and cut straight to it. we were in someone's car today and he wanted to stay in it and pretend to be driving etc. i said he couldnt'. he was standing in passenger seat so i went round to that door to get him out, explaining that we were going in so that he could have his supper. he grabbed my arm and bit me so hard he has drawn blood.

what would you have done at that point?

he has been biting for 5 months now and is 20 months old.

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marthamoo · 28/06/2005 22:19

Soph, ds2 was a biter so I have every sympathy. I tried everything mentioned on this thread - ignoring, shouting, time out, threatening to bite back, the 'straitjacket' method...I don't think any of it really had a massive, life changing impact. This is not what you want to hear, I know, but it's a stage and he will grow out of it. I know how depressed it can make you feel but it is not your bad parenting, or that your child is an inherent sociopath. He will grow out of it. Keep showing your disapproval, be consistent - you are already doing all the right things, especially with regard to him biting other children (I was 'lucky', ds2 only ever bit me, dh and ds1) and just hang on in there - you will get there in the end. Much sympathy.

WideWebWitch · 28/06/2005 22:26

I haven't read the thread but I'd have said NO! in a firm but calm voice, accompanied by immediate removal from situation and reinforcement for the next couple of mins then I'd forget about it but repeat the above ad infinitum until he gets the message. Boring but effective imo.

WideWebWitch · 28/06/2005 22:29

Just skimmed thread and I don't think you need to be tougher than NO! and removal and consistent. It will work, just keep at it and keep calm until he gets the message that there's NOTHING in it for him except boring no attention/no mummy

Heathcliffscathy · 28/06/2005 22:34

fckinghell mm...you got it in one, my deepest fear is that ds is a sociopath in the making...and that I* made him!!!!!!!!

so great advice. dh blames himself for it all, he reckons it is because of 'horseplay' with ds that has been too rough...i think that is nonsense myself...but...

anyway, love the bore them to death one...might tgry that...and if that fails, it'll be in room with door closed for one minute.

dh and i both wish to thank nooka for a real belly laugh on both our parts...we love the thought of a 'shoe thrower'...thank you so much, made us feel better (still think biting is worse btw!)

xxx

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WideWebWitch · 28/06/2005 22:36

No soph, it's normal, loads and loads of them do it, it's not just your ds, he isnt' weird!

Heathcliffscathy · 28/06/2005 22:36

thanks www. my bruise is going green....but i hear you...

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Heathcliffscathy · 28/06/2005 22:37

dh said to say that it's not just a bruise but a puncture wound...

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marthamoo · 28/06/2005 22:38

Soph, ds1 had the same 'horseplay' with dh as ds2 did - and he never bit. It's not you - it's him, he's a biter, he's not evil, he's normal...honest!

Heathcliffscathy · 28/06/2005 22:40

am bit tearful... thank you so much. i love mumsnet. thank you

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Heathcliffscathy · 28/06/2005 22:41

i was just saying to dh btw that he was 'eviiil' said in the voice of austin powers baddie dr evil...

thanks for confirming that he isnt'. i do know that...honest...

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handlemecarefully · 28/06/2005 22:58

Just a question - not advice to Sophable, but more of a devils advocate position:

Is it really so bad to show fury to a child that age after they have bitten you and drawn blood? i.e. to shout loudly with full on enraged face; so that they appreciate that they really have overstepped the mark?

Heathcliffscathy · 28/06/2005 22:59

i'll await answers to that one with interest hmc...

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handlemecarefully · 28/06/2005 23:00

ummmm - me too!

CountessDracula · 28/06/2005 23:01

Sophable I'm sure I've told you this but dd bit me at that age on the tit, I was so surprised and shocked and in pain that I virtually dropped her, I screamed my head off at her and for the first (and only) time tried to smack her bottom but fortunately missed (was reflex i think lol!)

She was so terrified that she never did it again.

handlemecarefully · 28/06/2005 23:02

ahh...interesting....

Fran1 · 28/06/2005 23:38

I'd say "no biting" pick her up in the least cuddly way possible (like by the shoulders) lift her into house and sit her on the floor, don't say another word to her, shut front door and go get on with my day.

She normally runs to me crying and i say i don't want to talk to you you hurt me, and continue being busy (which means moving stuff around the house and fuming inside!)

For my dd this is devastating enough that she quickly learns.

After a few minutes i will ask her to stop crying and then i will talk to her, when she does stop crying i explain why whatever she did was wrong and she apologises and we get on with our day.

I don't feel shouting is necessary for me, dd knows if i ignore her then that is really bad. It has stopped lots of awkward phases in the past, like biting, smacking, refusing to put shoes on, take shoes off etc etc

morocco · 29/06/2005 00:09

poor you sophable
mine bites too, usually creeping up behind me though when he thinks he can get away with it (btw hmc I think it's my screams of outrage that are the attraction!) He also does it when he's pissed off but I can usuallly avoid that by making sure none of me is in biting range (bizarre upside down holds and nose pinching have been used in the past) - that's my main technique for dealing with it. I wouldn't put him in his room poor chap as he's far too little to understand all that stuff and his sad little eyes would break my heart(do it all the time to ds1 who's almost three, on the other hand) so I just say 'no' really loudly and put him down and ignore him for a minute or so. Hope I don't sound too blase but he really is very young yet to be worried about it longer term. My ds always gets worse when he's teething too btw.
Are there any changes in your life? ,like are you pregnant again, or started back at work? ds1 started biting for a while after I gave birth but soon settled down.
otoh, if he's still doing it when he's 3, I'd be coming down really hard on it, so it's not that I'm a big softie all round.

bobbybob · 29/06/2005 05:59

I removed every single E number from DS's diet for a week and the biting completely stopped. introduced things one at a time until I found the foods that make him a biter.

FairyMum · 29/06/2005 06:58

Sophable, they are all little sociopaths at that age I think

Blu · 29/06/2005 07:09

Sophable, poor you.

DS had two biting spells, mercifuuly short. The first was cured by instant put-down-or-away-and ignore, the second outbreak - I think t about 20-22 months took me completely by surprise. He bit me across my thumb nail, and the pain was so excruciating that, like CD, I reacted on impulse - and I did actually smack him.

I have always felt ashamed - I aim not to smack - but I have to say, he never bit me again. I don't think you should actually smack him , but I think 20 months is old enough to be 'very fierce and cross' for a v short space of time.

I think that 'put-down-and-ignore' tactics work when the child doesn't necessarily understand the implications of biting but just enjoys the rather sensational results.

It sounds as if he has gone beyond the 'doing it for the experimental effect' stage, and is conscioulsy trying to use biting as a stategy to get what he wants, and I think it's ok to demonstrate that not only is it ineffective - he doesn't get what he wants - but that the biting itself is bad, bad , bad.

Perhaps a very cross sharp 'no, do not bite', and an istant punishment - take his toy away or whatever is right there and then? I think 20 months is too young for anything more reflective or drawn out.

morningpaper · 29/06/2005 08:58

Fran I agree that doing whatever they find 'devastating' is the easiest way of bringing the message home - ignoring, telling off, time out or whatever.

Vossy · 29/06/2005 10:12

Just wanted to add that I am going through the same at the moment with my two and a half year old, but not so much biting but hitting, punching and kicking. I've got a 5 week old baby as well so a bit more emotional than normal and have started to take everything very personally. Convinced myself at the weekend that he hates me now that the baby has arrived. Am sticking with time out (usually the hallway as that's really boring) but have come close to losing it big time when he directs this at the baby. Totally feel for you but having read all the advice you've been given, I think there's lots there for us to try! Good luck. x

littleshebear · 29/06/2005 12:53

I went through this with ds1, at about the same age, ds2 but it was more scratching/pulling hair and dd2, who is now 2 and 8 months. Dd 2 no longer bites other children but she does bite her siblings occasionally.

I felt terrible with ds1 as I really felt it was something I'd done and he would grow up a psychopath - he is now 12 and a lovely gentle person. I was in tears about it so many times though, and nothing I did seemed to help.

I would agree with Dr Green that it's something they can't really help - I think a red mist descends on a certain type of child when they are frustrated or feel threatened - by someone taking a toy away, or being made to stop doing something they want to do. I really don't agree with screaming at a child deliberately, or making a child scared of you, or biting back as I don't think this works with early biters, I don't think they will remember. You have to tell them it's naughty and put them on the step, or wherever, then make them apologise. Even if you do that consistently you may have to wait for them to grow out of it, but you will know you are doing all you can do. All of mine had stopped biting by 2.5. With my dd2, I stopped going to playgroups completely for 6 months because I had to shadow her so closely and still didn't manage to prevent other children being hurt. I couldn't face any more humiliation, having been through it twice already, but when I went back about 8 weeks ago, she was fine. I still watch her, though! So perhaps you could look at situations that cause him to bite and see if they can be avoided - perhaps he isn't emotionally mature enough to cope with them. I know it's hard if you work and he has to go to nursery, as my ds1 and 2 did, but if you have a choice, perhaps it's something you could think about.

I also looked at what was happening in the family - because there's quite a big age gap the eldest two children love her dearly and will give her anything they happen to have that she wants - my ds2, who's 6, wouldn't so he was the one who got bitten at home. I also think perhaps dh and I were spoiling her in a similar way as she is our baby, so we all tried to stop doing that.

Sorry this is so long but I really do sympathise and I know how terrible and depressed it makes you feel. It isn't your fault and if people are lucky enough to have children who don't bite that isn't necessarily down to their superior parenting skills either. My dd1 has never hurt anyone and was a quiet, angelic toddler. I'm glad I had her or I would think it was me!

Passion · 29/06/2005 13:05

sophable - Haven't read this whole thread so sorry if I repeat. My dd is 20 months and I have recently been going through the same thing. I think she likes the attention if she sees me get all cross and aeriated so here's what I've started doing - I say 'no biting' really firmly and then I either put her in her cot and walk away for one minute (No longer) or strap her in her buggy and do the same. I think it's important for her to know that as an attention seeking device (Which in her case it usually is - she bit me the other day just because I was daring to talk to my sister and ignoring her whines) it's not going to work. I do think that angry voices and faces fascinate them at this age and the important thing is to stay as calm as you possibly can. Easier said than done I know but I do think this is starting to become much more effective than my raised voice/angry reaction of the past which just seemed to spur her on to get the reaction again. The other thing that is important to remember though is that they are still very young so if they look like they are going to bite distract them first. I also try and show her what we DO do as well as want we DONT. So after I've got her from her room I say kisses and cuddles are nice biting is horrible. If she then kisses me or does a gentle stroke I give her a lot of attention as a reward. Hope this helps - it's horrible isn't it?

Anchovy · 29/06/2005 13:27

Sophable I have a 20 month old biter too. I always move immediately to dire punishment, if only to placate her older brother who tends to be the Bitee. She usually does it when she doesn't get her own way and it is serious stuff - would definitely draw blood if no clothing in between. I don't think it happens more when she is tired, ad its certainly not e-numbers related: she is a determined little madam and biting is one of the weapons in her armoury.

I'm with the immediately fierce approach. I say "Absolutely Not. Biting is Completely Unacceptable" straight away and VERY loudly. DS already knows that "Completely Unacceptable" means just that and also has the benefit of not being used in nomal conversation (unlike "no" which can be a bit overused.) Also you can say it in a slightly theatrical over-emphatic manner - I always sound just like Miss Jean Brodie, I think.

Then its straight off to a naughty step - I have several dotted around the house - for a short period where she can watch but not join in. I make a point of doing something interesting with DS or doing something by myself so that she can see that she is not included. This only lasts about 2 mins tho - don't think they can do much more than that at that age. If we were out I would either put her straight in her buggy, or make her stand somewhere (safe) while I collected things together etc).

Then I go and get her and tell her it is over but "no more biting" AND make her apologise to the Bitee. I honestly think we are getting somewhere with this approach - you have to be completely consistent though.