How many times a day does your 2-3 year old cry?

[mummylonglegs]

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Which would you rather have, the tantrums or the weepies? Man, those tantrums can be pretty bad.

as I said I dont really have tantrums. A few almost start but seem to get in there before they do. ds3 (2.5) has a bit of a paddy when over tired, but he can be distracted or cuddled to calm him down

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4 boys one girl!!! Incidently I think boys are the easiest too!!!!

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I think boys are up front..what you see is what you get!! girls whine,complain cry do sneaky things. this isnt just mt dd but when my ds was small alot of my friends had girls and they told tales etc all the time!! ds just got on with it

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night night!!

My ds maybe cries twice a week. Over in less than a minute.

My friend has two kids the same age and they cry and moan constantly.

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My DS started crying a few times a day (after being happy with almost no crying). He is now 2yrs2months.

I noticed that when he cries his granparents jump up and give him whatever he wants. They were rewarding his bad behaviour, so of course he was starting to do it more and more. I have taught him (and the grandparents!) that if he wants something he needs to show a "big smile", or tell me "when you have stopped crying" (which does not guarantee a positive result, but tears guarantees no positive result for him - he won't get the toy/attention he wants if he cries).

The change is like day and night. Crying is very short duration (a minute at most). Only about once a week, usually when he is tired. I ask him to stop and tell me (with words or show me by pointing if he does not know the words). I do sometimes need to remind him to show me his "big smile" (especially if he is tired). Sometimes it is a bit of a fake smile - but at least he is trying (and stops crying). At that point we can sort out whatever he is trying to communicate.

Also, something that REALLY helps (eg. when we've finished at the pool and its time to go and he wants to stay), I repeat what it is he told me as in "I know you want to stay at the pool. But it is time to go home now. We will come back another day" or "I know you want some ice-cream, but you need to eat your food first" or "I know you don't want to sleep now, but it is bed time and you do need to go to bed". Making sure that they know you have heard and understand their frustration does help. And of course, sometimes you just have to redirect their attention if they are stuck on something that is upsetting them.

I should have mentioned that we also give a lot of encouragement and positive support, and acknowledge when DS has done something well eg "I am proud of you for being so good when we left the pool" (if he didn't cry), "thank you for being such a big boy and smiling when ... ", and also pointing out how dreadful it looks when another child is sobbing or wailing in a public place.

Must say that he went through a stage of just sobbing. We put him in his cot (which he no longer uses as a bed, which is very boring with no toys or other interesting things in it) and told him that we would come and get him when he felt better. He stopped crying but each time we went back in he started up again. An obvious bid for attention, and a very obvious power play. He was upset with US, and made sure we knew it. He kept it up for AGES, but we did not want to reward this behaviour and told him that he could come out any time he chose (and his way out was to stop crying). He only did this twice (second time only lasted a few minutes), but he now has the message that if he is sad and pathetic (obviously once we are sure there is no reason for the crying eg he has not hurt himself) he will not get any attention.

To answer mommylonglegs original question about what to do if they get sad and cry and sob about a toy's head flopping over etc(we had a similar incident - different details but pretty much the same kind of thing). We just said to DS, "oh dear, this toy is obviously making you very sad, so we will just have to take it away until you don't feel sad anymore. And if you keep feeling sad about it we'll give it to someone who is happy about it". With the speed of lightening DS was saying "no, no, no, not sad" accompanied by a big (if somewhat forced) smile. The crunch is that our DS KNOWS that if we say something like this we will carry it out.

It seems to really help giving them the choice (as in "if you cry your toy is going away. If you want to keep your toy you need to stop crying now"). Our DS very soon understood these sentences, in which we often include the words "you choose". So he knows it is up to him, and he has the power to control the outcome. In this instance if he continues sobbing we might do the cot thing again (a sort of time out) - but as I said, after two of those sessions he very clearly understood that we were not going to listen to continuous crying. Of course, we would not apply this if he was crying for a reason, like being hurt or something like that.

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I'm afraid i agree with mummylonglegs,

Your methods seem a bit harsh for my liking kiwikate. It may not seem important to you that the toys head won't sit the right way, but to a 2.2yr old at that very moment in time it is crucial!
Don't forget they still havn't figured out that they are not the centre of the universe yet. They are still totally self centred and should not be punished for that.
I'm not saying we should run to their every cry, but rather than shutting away and ignoring, its important to talk to the child, help them get the teddy in the position they want or explain why teddy can't sit in that position.

And to mummylonglegs - my dd does similar! Your original post made me laugh as it could have been me writing it. We call our dd contrary mary at the mo.

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Thanks to all for your feedback. I absolutely agree that positive feedback is the key, and is the most important, as well as trying to understand (apparently a lot of 2/3 yo frustration is trying to learn to communicate).

We only deal with inappropriate crying the way I suggested.

I think everyone (even adults) really blossom when they have positive reinforcement, and I don't believe you can do too much of that. So for us its about 98% positive encouragement and 2% tough love. It seems the perfect balance for DS as he is outgoing and confident. (Maybe boys push the boundaries earlier than girls?)

Must say I had (and still have) a huge battle with MIL over the encouragement thing. She says we will "spoil" DS and give him a false sense of his own worth (eg if we praise him for trying something even if it does not work). My reply is that I can see how he flourishes when encouraged (as we all do).

Also DH made a point early on of encouraging DS to try and work through frustration (eg try again if the toy didn't work quite right). Also we let DS know that sometimes in life things just don't work out quite the way we want them to (sometimes the toy just does not work). And then empathise and say "Yes, it is frustrating when it doesn't work, but sometimes in life that's what happens" (not sure how much of this he understands, but it seems to cheer him up).

It's true what you say about communication, though. I heard somewhere that the "terrible twos" can be a product of trying to communicate something, but frustration at not being able to. If DS is frustrated I get down at his eye level, and ask him to try and tell me (with words, or signs or pointing - and he has a pretty good vocab, so this works well). Then repeating his view point back to him REALLY helps eg "I understand that you don't want to go home from the pool, but we've been here a long time and it is time to go. But we will come back soon". Just telling him that I understand or know how he feels seems to reduce his frustration by 90% (I didn't believe it when I heard of this technique, but it really works). Also, I praise him for explaining so well, and tell him how easy it is when he can find the words to tell me - this has really encouraged him to expand his vocab in really helpful ways.

Hi kiwikate,

It is true, children get frustrated a) in situations when they can't communicate what they want to and b) when they don't understand.

So using language to explain things to your son will help him in many ways and what you describe in your last post sounds great.

It kind of contradicts the "if you cry your toy is going away. If you want to keep your toy you need to stop crying now" you mentioned in your second post?"

Hi Fran
Not contradictory - it just depends on the situation. The "tough love" (take the toy away stuff) is only if he throws a tantrum or sobs-and-sobs in the "whole world has ended" type of way, AND if the other "trying-to-communicate" method has not worked. The tough love was very effective in stopping fake hysteria (and hardly needs to be used now).

We also taught DS some sign-language before he could talk. That really worked well.

When I say "hysteria" I really mean inappropriate sadness and pro-longed crying in disproportion to the situation (see MommyLongLegs original question). Perhaps this behaviour disturbed me so because DS has always been very happy, cheerful and laughing and hardly ever cried. Am glad to say he is pretty much back to this now!

On reflection, I guess a lot depends on the REASON for the excessive crying. Our DS's was definately an over-dramatic attempt at monopolising everyone's attention. He seems to now realise that he gets much more attention (and encouragement) if he gives up the sobbing and replaces it with smiling and interaction.

Kiwikate - I have the grandparents here and the crying and "you are breaking my heart" sobbing has gone from twice a week to several times each day. He has also stopped eating veggies, and doing his little jobs. If he won't toddle off to his bedroom at night his grandpa takes him in a firemans lift - well who would walk after that? He doesn't eat veggies because grannie eats crisp sandwiches for tea. He has become bossy and negative - just like grannie. Big talk time coming up while he's at nursery I think.

Ironic really that the people who want to see him happiest are actually causing the tearful behaviour.

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MLL - glad to hear yours is a trouper. Makes things so much easier. I also know what you mean about grandparents. We have one granny who, like yours, is overly critical (and I really worry about that) and another who is overindulgent (which is ok to a certain degree, but can cause some problems for parents). Critical Gran also occassionally says things like (when DS even makes just a small grizzle) "Don't make that noise or we'll leave you here in the restaurant and never come back for you". Poor kid's face just crumbles, and I can see the horror going through his mind. (EEEKKK!! - I don't usually interfere, but that's when I tell DS that that is nonsense we would never do such a thing, and tell Critical Gran not say such things). For her other criticisms I just hope that our encouragement and positive reinforcement will more than outweigh the criticisms (seems to be working as he is very self assured, but I do worry about what she says when I am not there). Critical Gran is MIL, so can be a bit tricky to deal with. How do you deal with Critical/Scary Gran?

At first I worried about the inconsistency (between grandparents approach and ours), but soon realised that kids are smart enough to know that different people/places have different boudaries.

BobbyBob - I guess you have to pick your battles with grandparents. For stuff like the fireman's lift (we have a similar issue with DS always swinging between grandparents as he walks - not practical for parents carrying a zillion grocery bags, or out with DS on ones own, as he just collapses on the floor and refuses to walk unless swinging is going to happen) - I tell DS that that is something special that he does with his grandparents and we don't do that (don't want to spoil all their fun - after all grandparents are supposed to be fun - but if they aren't sensible it can really turn out to be a problem). He is not completely convinced and can't seem to undertand why I am "mean" about this, when grandparents are such fun. But the eating thing is a lot tricker to deal with, and sometimes you do just have to let grandparents know the impact they are having. With the crying-for-no-reason thing (or because he wants something and we've said no), DS has learned that although that results in him getting whatever he wants from grandparents, it is not going to work with us parents. We still have to occassionally remind him to "ask nicely instead of crying", but that does stop him in his tracks, although we sometimes have to add "you know that you don't get (toys or sweats or whatever) when you cry for them. Can I see your big smile instead?".

It is great that the grandparents are involved though. After all, the more people in the world who love our kids, the better for them!