Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

so finally, my 3 1/2 year old boy has got me shouted at in public....

78 replies

pollypeachum · 07/08/2009 16:49

Sorry about the length of this, but this incident has upset me.
My older twin, very tall for his age, has had an unfortunate prediliction for pushing and shoving other children for no good reason. It used to be much worse but he's growing out of it and has practically stopped. Nor entirely though, sadly....
On the basis that he seems to be a good hearted child otherwise, I am assuming (hoping!) that its a "stage." I have deliberately avoided things like soft play places where he could have run riot though, and stopped going to our local toddler group when his bigness for his age made him too big to be rough, compared to his peers/younger children. If you see what I mean.
The fact that he's a twin doesn't help of course because I can't keep an eye on both of them at once....
Anyway - there we were on our local highstreet at the end of a long day running errands. Both children had been good as gold. Then, just as we were about to go back to the car park, my boy for no good reason gives another child a shove - I was out of earshot but he probably told said child he was going to put him in jail - its the game they're playing at home.
Mother of said child immediately rounds on my boy saying very loudly and very repetively what a horrible, rude, nasty child he is. Her child by the by is not crying and has not been hurt. Not that thats an excuse - I have told my boy until blue in the face not to shove other children. Anyway, I tell him off but decide against sending him over to say sorry because she's still expostulating about how vile he is and I very much doubt he'd have wanted to approach her. I say that he is only three, although he seems much older. She says thats no excuse. I say I'm very sorry, she says he should be the one apologising, not me, and that he's vile. I say again that he is only three, she says I should teach my children some manners. I say I do! and she pulls a face and says not much. I decide discretion is the best course and we beat hasty retreat.
Its been bothering me ever since. Yes, my boy can be rough but he's three and a lot less rough than he used to be. Its not as if he punches, bites, kicks, nips - he just gives the odd shove and sometimes stands in the way, being bloody minded, and saying that no other children are allowed on the slide. He's always been very affectionate and these days he generally plays well with others and is a popular child.
So - I'm afraid to ask this because the truth might hurt - am I wrong to think that being three explains his behaviour, as I was trying to say to the other mother? Or is she right and am I effectively a sh*te parent for not teaching him some manners? I think she overreacted and jumped to the wrong conclusions. For example, I think its extremely bad manners to shout at and insult a stranger in the street!
Sorry to ramble - I've been stewing over this for a week!

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
screamingabdab · 07/08/2009 19:39

But she apologised, she told her son off, (she also modelled good manners in apologising). I suspect she mentioned his age because the woman went off on one so quickly

screamingabdab · 07/08/2009 19:53

Hmm, this has set me off thinking about an incident a while ago, which sort of backs up what you are saying, plimple

Myself and 2 friends, 7 children between us, were in a cafe.

Friend has her baby, aged about 8 months with her. She takes him off to a little play room, and while in there, a little girl, who's mother was not in the playroom, whacks friends baby very hard over the head. My friend (gently but firmly, though upset about her baby being hurt), says to the toddler "Don't hit, that's not nice".

Mum-of-toddler (PFB, I strongly suspect), comes steaming in, and says "she's only 2, she doesn't understand". No word of apology, not asking if the baby is allright no word of reprimand to her DD. Just outraged someone has spoken to her DD.

This left us all livid, but not assertive enough to say anything. The point is, in this case we all understand that little ones hit, and do not do so in a malicious way, but in not apologising, not showing concern for the baby she was not modelling good manners, and she was letting the toddler get away with it on the grounds of her age.

mrsjammi · 07/08/2009 19:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

msled · 07/08/2009 20:07

I would have told her to fuck off. How DARE she say such horrible things to a three year old. She could bloody whistle for her 'apology'. Stupid cow.

Not that people like that annoy me at all, oh no.

quirkychick · 07/08/2009 20:32

Well the person who was horrible, rude, vile and nasty was the other mother. She was not exactly modelling good behaviour was she? How unpleasant.

pollypeachum · 07/08/2009 20:32

Crokky and Pimple - I quite see where you're coming from but to explain myself:- it was a pedestrian area and when I say out of earshot I mean he was whispering; I was about five feet away with his twin brother, she was about the same distance away from her son. The boys were walking because they have destroyed their pushchair and won't wear reins - they rip them off! Had it been an area with traffic, I would have been culpable because they would have been at risk from cars. I hope that in the circumstances I wasn't out of order.

OP posts:
hmc · 07/08/2009 20:35

She was completely in the wrong for calling your ds "vile" which he most certainly isn't. That was unacceptable.

However you should be able to get him to desist from pushing etc by the age of 3. Some stiffer sanctions perhaps as a more effective deterrent?

Fillyjonk · 07/08/2009 20:47

I wouldn't keep a child on reins just to stop them shoving. A shove is really not the end of the world. Its nothing in the grand 3 year old scheme of things.

My ds was actually quite like this. Obviously, it was those rare occasions when I was, say, distracted by his new sister (which was of course most remiss of me, especially in public) when he shoved. He grew out of it by around 4. Its just what kids DO. Yes you apologise and so forth,of course you do, but its not something to make a song and dance over.

Fillyjonk · 07/08/2009 20:49

And I really disagree that the OP should be able to get her child to stop pushing by 3.

Go into any school playground and you will see plenty of pushing and shoving.

3 year olds are quite resistant to things like reason, IMO. It gets better fast after they hit 4 or so. Perhaps a little older for boys.

screamingabdab · 07/08/2009 20:51

Just to give you some hope , polly, my DS2 also grew out of it at around 4. I was very scared when he went to school nursery that he's be doing it and getting labelled the naughty boy, but school nursery really helped sort his behaviour out

Fillyjonk · 07/08/2009 21:00

oh yes, ds was considered very well behaved and helpful at nursery

they do tend to save up their arseiness for home

pollypeachum · 07/08/2009 21:02

hmc - any suggestions for appropriate sanctions will be gratefully received. I've exhausted all my ideas and none work.

And I have to say that at pre-school, he's fine! Its the unstructured (possibly boring/not sufficiently challenging?) environments of toddler groups, the soft play, following me around town etc that lets the devil into him. Play parks, where he's active, are fine.

OP posts:
pollypeachum · 07/08/2009 21:19

Plimple - of course I told him off! I didn't mention his age to excuse it, but to try to mitigate what looked like a six year old behaving very badly! he is BIG for his age.

I was so taken aback that I was reacting to the situation instinctively. However, with hindsight, not only would I not have backed the woman's language up, but I would have explained to her that there was wrong on both sides, not just ours.

Of course all this just brings me on to another great hollow horror in the shadow of which I have lived the past 3 1/2 years - the impossibility - for me at any rate - of controlling twin boys who are big, physically capable and very, very wilful!

Screamingabdab - I'd have been livid in those circs too!

MollieO - YES!!!! he is big and articulate, and I'm sure no one believes he's ony three.

OP posts:
juuule · 07/08/2009 21:28

Only read the op.

My feeling is that if you are well aware that your boy pushes randomly then in the situation you were in I would have had him on reins so that he was near me at all times.
If he doesn't like reins then that would be his incentive to not push etc.

You say you can't keep an eye on both of them as they are twins. Lots of parents have to keep an eye on 2 or more children. You surely wouldn't say you couldn't keep an eye on them if one was about to run into the path of a passing car.

In other situations you need to be on top of things minimizing his chances of pushing. Yes, eventually he will grow out of it. It is a phase but it needs managing and he needs to be repeatedly reminded that it's not what we do.

As for the woman in the carpark - don't take it to heart she sounds like a nutcase. Well ott with her reaction.

screamingabdab · 07/08/2009 21:36

polly Yes, that's it, DS1 was always fine at playgroup/nursery. Really bad at soft play.

pollypeachum · 07/08/2009 23:29

Thanks everyone for your comments, both supportive and those that take issue with me - and the ones in between! Its very helpful - at least I find it so - to have so many viewpoints.
Waitingforbedtime - I console myself with the thought that my big son will one day be plenty strong enough to look after his aged mother in her dotage. If I survive long enough that is....

OP posts:
TAFKAtheUrbanDryad · 07/08/2009 23:41

I love all these comments saying "Put him on reins"!

If your toddler won't walk on reins, they just won't IME. My ds used to dangle off them, Mission Impossible style, or just sit down in the middle of the street and refuse to walk. What do you do then - drag them?

As the mother of a random shover, and kicker, and hair puller, I totally sympathise. The other mother was not modelling good behaviour for her dd, but you did fine for your ds. I wouldn't think anymore on it IIWY.

littleducks · 08/08/2009 00:17

Maybe its wrong but while i would happily forgive a child pushing mine at playgroup/softplay whatever, i would be really shocked if my child was shoved by a stranger in the street

I'm not sure about the reins thing, but i think if he randomly shoves others he needs to be walking by you or immediately removed from arms length of other kids

I think you may be doing yourself a diservice by stopping him going to toddler group as where else will he learn how to act with other children

Oh and i have two and keep an eye on them both

Mumcentreplus · 08/08/2009 00:40

she over reacted..probably feelin like a prat when she thinks about it..(if she has half a brain) just reacting to the situation..

juuule · 08/08/2009 07:41

TAFKA - I've had ones on reins who won't walk. Just sat down in the street. You have to find a way round it. I've explained why they are on reins and what they need to do so they don't have to wear them. If in a hurry, yes, I've pulled them to their feet. I've taken a pushchair. What I haven't done is let them go if I think it would cause a problem.
And if they were really that uncontrollable I would avoid taking them with me if possible. Explain to them repeatedly what behaviour you expect. Remind them before you go out so that while you are out it only takes a look or a word to remind them. It doesn't work immediately but over time they do get to understand (or at least that's what I've found).

And Profiterolethief, I have to disagree when you say that 3yo are usually hooligans. Not ime. They are usually* quite nice. A handful at times but generally willing to be reasoned with.

TAFKAtheUrbanDryad · 08/08/2009 08:13

Well I mjust be doing something wrong, or maybe my ds is still too little, but I'm impressed at your toddler's capacity for rational discussion. IME you can explain till you're blue in the face but it doesn't actually make the blindest bit of difference!

I think a buggy is the answer here, but the OP said the twins had trashed theirs, and doubles aren't cheap!!

juuule · 08/08/2009 09:36

Tafka - you have to pick your moments when you explain. Not much point if they're in thrashing around mode But they do all have times when they are more receptive.

As regards the pushchair. Maybe get a cheap single and put the child in who is playing up most at the time and put the other on reins.
Tesco were doing a single pushchair for ten pounds recently.

juuule · 08/08/2009 09:38

Actually, after reading the op again, I would say that another option would be to put the children in the car before putting the stuff away. At least that way they are away from trouble or danger.

nannyL · 08/08/2009 09:50

i think the other woman REALLY over reacted.

But did your 3 year old just go and shove a complete stranger in the street?
If so, then yes you are bing far to preciouse about him.... there is no way my 3 year old charge would go and shove / hurt or do anything (unprovoked) to a complete stranger in a street.
It just wouldnt happen

(and my 3 year old is one of the most difficult / stroppy / tantrummy toddlers i have EVER encountered)

pigletmania · 08/08/2009 15:44

OMG what a horrid woman poor poor you. What is she teaching her child with her nasty behaviour, if that was me I would have told your boy in a nice way that its not very nice to push and that to apologise. I would have told you not to worry and that its fine. I would not like to apologise to that woman let alone a 3 year old..