how do your punish your 4 or 5 year old?!

[traceface]

My dd1 has just turned 5. For a while she's been quite frustrating (taking AGES to do anything, needing to be asked numerous times before she'll do as she's told, being a drama queen about everything!). It seems to be getting worse and I feel like I have less and less control over her. Her teacher says she's really good and polite at school so I think it's just for my benefit (and DH). We're doing a sticker chart for her behaviour but she's not that bothered of she gets lots of 'unhappy' stickers. We've used naughty corner for years but now it seems to have no effect - she goes there, sits and sings to herself, says sorry then will happily repeat whatever got her there in the first place! She gets sent to her room to calm down which is good because it gives us space from each other, but is more a way of diffusing a situation than punishing her. We don't smack and e don't really like to raise our voices too much but don't know how to punish her. She doesn't get pocket money so we can't take that away, we've tried banning TV/ colouring/ toys but she's not really bothered because she's got such an imagination she would sit in an empty room and amuse herself! Does anyone have any punishment ideas? Thank you

ihavenosecrets... it sounds like perhaps your friends either don't really get UP, or their kids are just taking the piss when with other people!

because it isn't about letting your kids do what they want, or not listen, or make all the decisions.
Alfie KOhn points out in the book that obviously there are times when what you say goes. ie, putting a seatbelt on is non-negotiable!

i think UP is mis-represented a lot, and I think a lot of people use it as an excuse to not bother parenting their children at all

To be successful at it I think it takes a certain type of person with the right skills. Slightly different situation but I went on a counselling course at work and I was rubbish! I wanted to fix the problem and tell the person to do X whereas that isn't what counselling is about.

Is it possible to get a concrete example of UP then? Say I decided to adopt it starting tomorrow with my four year old boy and he needed to get dressed/ put on shoes and would ignore/ stall/ deliberately choose something innappropriate and you had to get him ready to go out to work, how would you do that in practical terms?

How I have dealt with exactly this situation, corriefan, is firstly to get up earlier and allow more time in the mornings because I realised he got frustrated if he didn't have a bit of mucking about/playing time. I also became very vigilant about giving 10 min, 5 min warnings before it was time to put his shoes on/brush teeth etc so that when the time came that I needed his cooperation most he was sort of prepared for it and it wasn't going to represent an interruption which would make him need to 'act out'. Also just asking as many times as I need to, politely, patiently, standing still while I address him, sounding like a stuck record, until he actually does it.

I just try to never be in too much of a hurry, basically. Easier said than done I know. But when I'm in a hurry is when my needs and my children's needs clash most, and when our needs clash most, i now realise, is when all the 'bad' behaviour seems to happen.

Corriefan, how verbal is he? You could present the problem to him and ask for his ideas for a solution.
It seems to me that main problem for a lot of small boys (and girls but from the threads I've seen on here it seems to be mostly boys) is that they are just not interested in getting dressed but they haven't yet gathered that the quicker they get it done, the more time they get in peace to do what they want.

But what are you warning him about, Roundwindow? What are the consequences if he mucks about beyond the point when he needs to be getting ready? Doesn't sound very UP to me if there are consequences like you forcing him to get dressed or stopping mucking about if he doesn't want to stop.

(But told you, I just am incapable of getting UP, lol).

Ooh, actually, I take that back. I think it is UP to force him to get dressed if he doesn't stop mucking about, but it's NOT UP to WARN him that you intend to force him to get dressed if he doesn't stop mucking about.

And don't tell me I'm splitting hairs because that's what the A-Kohn book says; the threat warning is the Bad Thing You Must Not Do, but forcing your child to do something essential for their own good IS okay .

lljkk.. tying yourself up in knots over this.. you sound like me!

I guess I'm not warning him of anything that'll happen if he doesn't get dressed... I'm just warning him that he's going to need to stop what he's doing, it's going to be time to get dressed, time to go to wherever we're going.. as though it's some sort of indesputible law of physics or something! My DS responds really badly to sudden interruptions to his play with no time to mentally prepare/wind up what he's doing. That's all I meant by 'warning'... a bit like an actor getting 5 minute calls backstage. Nothing to do with any threat of anything I might do.

For me, if I'm calm and matter of fact and repetitive enough, he complies eventually. I just try to let go of any expectations I might have about how long that might take..... And sometimes I do mention 'consequences' but only real ones.. eg. if we don't go to the shops there won't be any food for dinner... if we don't get to so-and-so's house when we said we would they might not be there to let us in.

No idea whether this is UP or not (I did love the book) but it seems to fit in better with how I am generally and therefore, for me, much less stressful than any approach that requires me to be 'in control'. Cos I'm sooo not

There is a big difference between giving advance notice of something that is going to happen and threatening.

I think the former is acceptable to most parents including those who try to UP. Many children (and adults for a matter of fact!) find transition easier with a bit of advance notice.

I don't think I would agree that "forcing your child to do something essential for their own good IS ok" but I would say that as a last resort, forcing your child to do something essential for their own health/safety is necessary.

I hope no-one trounces me for this, but when my 5 yr old takes forever to get his uniform on in the morning, I say that he has 5 minutes to get ready (he CAN get dressed in 1 minute flat!), or we will be leaving with him in whatever state he is currently in. Which may mean going to school in his pyjamas. Funnily enough, he has never actually pushed it that far, and somehow always manages to get himself dressed in time.

I do like the getting them to verbalise the reasoning idea, I will definitely do that more, especially as he is at the 'why?' stage now anyway and I'm trying to encourage him to think of his own answers.

They have actually got into quite a good routine for getting ready before work, it's more when we're out about 10 after a lazy morning that it drives me crackers getting them to get ready because we'll be going somewhere for them and they'll be pratting about! Saying that it gets most stressful when I worry about being late and get het up and that is probably really my fault with bad time management.