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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

need perspective on this, its sensitive so please advise with this in mind.

32 replies

sunburntats · 07/06/2009 13:19

A little girl in my family just turned 6.

several "incidents" of her bieng observed asking other children to take off thier clothes and get into bed with her, whereby she asks them to kiss her.

other things have happened and been said.

These incidents have been observed for the last year or so.(obviously, there was intervention, gently distracting them from this behviour and not making a fuss)

I think (hope that you are all going to say) that it may be a phase, part of childhood curiosity etc.

Other memebers of the family are suggesting that she knows far far too much and that she may have seen or heard things that she should not have done.

Her mother is very embarrased and anxious for the child, does not know what to think.

I have little/no expereince of girls of this age so do not have a clue.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

nickschick · 07/06/2009 13:36

I have 3 dc, Im a trained nursery nurse and I think that today children are exposed to a lot more sexual things than we were,adverts on the tv have sexual connotations,tv shows have sexual innuendo and to me the 'innocence' has gone.

As parents we are so 'on top' watching that our children are safe and looking for signs of abuse that we arent allowing our children the freedom of play-of course some children are more aware of sexual related behaviour but to me this is just children playing,its not play Id encourage and I would try to divert play.

As a young child I myself grew up with little love I used to love nothing more than going to playmates homes and having their mum sit on the settee and watch tv with us sometimes putting their arm around us,there was a particular dinner lady who would always zip your coat up and hug you warm - i used to love it perhaps this child is a child who needs more hugs in a positive way?.

Original poster

sunburntats · 07/06/2009 13:39

ahhh thank you nick, that is such a reassuring post.

OP posts:

SoupDragon · 07/06/2009 13:40

It would make alarm bells ring for me.

Does she have older siblings?

Original poster

sunburntats · 07/06/2009 13:43

no she doesnt.

But we think that she has been in an environment as a small child where she may have seen stuff.

Thats just it soupy, we are torn as a family, is it normal or is it worrying?
I am alarmed, but dont know?

OP posts:

flamingobingo · 07/06/2009 13:44

It bothers me, too. Having said that, it could just be something as innocent as her stumbling upon her parents having sex, not that she's being abused.

Is there any reason, when it comes to abused children, that a trusted adult can't ask them things? Like saying 'that's an interesting game - how did you come up with that?'.

I often ask my children this - not about the sort of game you're describing, however.

Bucharest · 07/06/2009 13:45

It would make alarm bells ring for me.
My dd is the same age and it would never cross her mind to a) ask contemporaries to take their clothes off and b) get into bed with her.

I see what Nickschick is saying about the affection, but I'd say there is a huge difference between wanting a cuddle and asking someone to take their clothes off and get into bed with you.

Don't want to sound alarmist, but you are obviously already worried or you wouldn't be posting.

It may be something as simple as having seen a film that she ought not to have, it might not.

What it isn't, is normal 6 yr old behaviour.
Not the ones I know, or have taught, anyway.

SlartyBartFast · 07/06/2009 13:46

if she was older i think there would be more concern but at 6 i think it is a normal stage.

SlartyBartFast · 07/06/2009 13:48

the same sort of bheaviour happened to my dd, when she was 8 and anotehr girl orchestrated it.
i was concerned, phone school and nspcc
however this is different as she is in your family, and she is 6, which i feel is significant.

Original poster

sunburntats · 07/06/2009 13:49

she is only just 6, but has been doing this kind of thing for about 18 months.

she says things as well.

It makes me anxious and so i never allow her to be alone with my ds, other family members also supervise her and dont leave her alone with their children.

She is a gorgeous, bright funny loving little girl who craves attention. which she gets from me any way.

her mother is obviously freaked out and insists that there is no way she has been abused or put into a situation where she could have seen stuff.
We are not so sure due to the history of the childs father and the relationship with the mother.

OP posts:

itwasntme · 07/06/2009 13:50

I used to play Mummies and Daddies with friends, and though we didn't take our clothes off as far as I remember, we sometimes pretended to be adults and get in bed and "kiss". Not often, but I do remember it, and it was around the same age. (back in the 70s)

It was all very very innocent, and there was absolutely no sexual abuse in my family or in the families of my friends. In fact, I had no idea of what sex was till quite late on, by which time these games had stopped. As far as I'm aware n one of us had seen our parents "doing it"

Hope that has given you some perspective. Has anyone talked to the girl?

Bucharest · 07/06/2009 13:51

What sort of thing does she say?

SlartyBartFast · 07/06/2009 13:53

is the history of her father relevant?

has she seen something, some film, she shouldnt..
?

Original poster

sunburntats · 07/06/2009 13:54

she once said that another child had done something to her privates.

the other child was a year younger than her (4 at the time)and hasnt got the foggyest what little girls have down below, and just would not do what she said, they have no awareness of diffrences in boys and girls.

completely untrue.

she also does the actions of a pole dancer, as if she has seen a porno or at the very least something on TV.

OP posts:

SlartyBartFast · 07/06/2009 13:55

i think it needs looking it, how about camhs?

Original poster

sunburntats · 07/06/2009 13:56

i not sure about the father, we dont know him. there is significant history with the father, he comes from a family of sexual abusers.

we think that he may have been watching porn with her in the room, but this is only guessing as she really was a tiny tot when she was living in the same home as him.
the mother said she never left the girl alone with him.

OP posts:

SlartyBartFast · 07/06/2009 13:57

that sounds worrying

Original poster

sunburntats · 07/06/2009 13:57

Ok so my questions are:

What do we do now?

How to help the mum?

Who do we go to for the help?

How do we not make this thing realy bad for the child?

How do you know if it is abuse or just behaviour following somehing she saw?

OP posts:

SlartyBartFast · 07/06/2009 13:58

i would say gp is the first port of call, who can advise appropriate support.

Bucharest · 07/06/2009 14:01

Sounds more and more dodgy, tbh.

Does she talk about it matter-of-factly? Or as you have just paraphrased it? "touching her privates"?

I'd get her looked at by an expert I think. It may well be nothing, I hope so, for the little girl's sake, but I think you need to know.

traceybath · 07/06/2009 14:01

Or perhaps phone the nspcc for confidential advice.

MumofJTM · 07/06/2009 14:29

Are there any concerns from the school? I'm guessing not, as I am a teacher and I'm sure that the school would have contacted home if there were any inappropriate behaviour or comments in school. My first reaction is that she needs to talk to someone about the "games" but maybe family member too close. School might be able to advise or refer to Educational Psychologist or CAMHS. The last thing you want to make her feel is like she's done something "wrong", but it sounds like you're giving her and her mum loads of support anyway.

Original poster

sunburntats · 07/06/2009 14:36

Parents evening the teachers actual words were "this child is crying out for love".

Mother devastated, not sure how the teacher came to this conclusion and felt it necissary to make such an unhelpful comment.

Other than that, she does have some behaviour and discipline problems.

OP posts:

MumofJTM · 07/06/2009 14:42

Very unhelpful comment to mum, agreed - tho from a teacher's point of view, sometimes children behave badly because they want attention - are very noisy in class, don't do their work, say they're stuck all the time so that the teacher will have to work with them, anything to get attention. Often it doesn't matter whether it's positive or negative. If that's the teacher's assessment of the way she's behaving, I would say he/ she was right to raise his/ her concerns from a behaviour point of view. However, ABSOLUTELY disgraceful choice of words -as you say, very unhelpful. What sort of behaviour/ discipline problems does she have?

Original poster

sunburntats · 07/06/2009 14:49

basically just does what ever she wants. disregarding any instructions that the teacher may give.

she is often bieng punished.
She is the same at home. (but not when she is with me funnily enough, i have no trouble with her)

So do you think that maybe she has seen somethig and that this is NOT normal behaviour then?

OP posts:

MumofJTM · 07/06/2009 15:00

In my view, FWIW, I think she has perhaps seen something inappropriate, and picked up on one simple aspect of it - maybe a film of some sort, and she saw people in bed naked and they were kissing but she didnt understand much more than that. In terms of her behaviour, it's more a question of WHY is she not doing as she is told, rather than the nature of the behaviour itself.

It sounds like you have a really positive relationship with her, if she'll do as she's told for you - that's really great and really valuable for her. Do you feel able to say something to her next time you witness something dodgy? like earlier posting suggested, say something like "that's an interesting game. Where did you learn that one?" sounds like a good opening line because you're not disapproving of it nor condoning it, but just being interested, and hopefully she might respond to you giving her that attention. Just be careful not to ask any leading questions, if she wants to tell you, and I just get the feeling she might - just let her tell you in her own words, and just reassure her that it might be hard to find the words to talk about it, but you're really interested and that she's doing really well etc. I don;t know - my gut feeling as a teacher is that she's witnessed something but it might be as (relatively) "innocent" as watching an adult film and not really understanding the implications of what she has seen and what she is trying to recreate. Needs further investigation, I would say. You and your family can't sustain this level of concern for her and constant supervision - it's not fair on any of you.

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