Bad Behaviour at Pre-school - What is Action Plus?? - Please Help!

[Themagicnumber]

DS1 is just 3 and at pre-school 2 mornings a week for 2mths. No mention of problems then last week out of the blue teacher said we need to work on his social skills and asked me to sign a consent form for 'Early Years Action Plus'. I don't know much about the system and yes he is a bit of a handful, but isn't this jumping the gun?

Teacher says DS1 will be playing nicely one minute and then might randomly throw sand/paint at other children for no obvious reason or hit them with a toy. He also snatches toys from others and pushes other kids out of the way. Teachers say they try to give him examples of the language to use instead of being physical (is this a lot to ask of a new pre-schooler?), but they haven't done anything to address his behaviour and seem cautious about telling him off and/or using time out etc.

He is the same at home when bored or ignored with younger siblings (twins 16mths), but nothing serious and responds to time out and good attention. There are not many boys the same age at the pre-school and most are girls there. I thought boys this age often misbehaved - or am I missing something?

Any help would really be appreciated.

www.bbc.co.uk/schools/parents/life/sen/statements/sen_whatnext.shtml

some info above about Early Years Action Plus. Surprised that they haven't mentioned anything earlier to you really.... Possibly the just turning 3 may be the key to this; I know that 36 months is a watershed age with language/language delay, that they don't just wait and see at that point, so possibly it's the same for social skills.

Have they mentioned getting anyone from outside to observe him? As Action Plus does often involve some sort of outside professional involvement...

Thanks for the info TotalChaos. Having found out what Early Years Action Plus is I am now even more concerned than before!

I don't understand how the pre-school would want outside advice when they haven't even discussed it with me and tried simple remedies such as time out. Also don't want DS1 put on a special educational needs register before a persistent problem or even a potential problem has been properly identified through the normal steps.

I just spoke to a friend whose DS1 has similar problems and she says her nursery expect this kind of behaviour (he hits and bites which is far more aggressive behaviour than my DS1).

Perhaps I should consider trying a more supportive and knowledgeable pre-school? I have lost faith in them after this.

God I agree with you. I wouldn't want my DS being put on any list at this tender age. My DS is a bit younger, but has similar behaviour. At his Nursery they are quite firm with him (Which I don't mind) and he responds well.

Maybe go for a compromise. Start a sticker chart, work on one aspect of his behaviour and give it another month. I would also be soured toward the preschool after this.

Sorry can;t be more help. Totally normal behaviour IMO.

A setting shouldn't be considering Early Years Action plus after 2 months. It's far too early to be involving outside agencies and the first step if they have concerns would be discussing "the problem" with parents and deciding on what action they will implement in pre school and what outcomes they want (developing social skills). Two days a week for two months means they have seen him for 16 sessions far too early to involve others.

A similar experience. Just collected my son (DS? What's that?)from nursery, and have been told that he is on some kind of Action programme. To be fair, they've been very helpful, but I'm still gutted. Over the past few weeks he's been biting and kicking (mainly adults), and we've tried to punish him, but to little effect so far. I certainly don't want him to have an IEP carried over to when he starts school in September- feel like he would be marked for life. I accept that his behaviour is quite extreme, but surely within the bounds of normality for a three year old? It all seems a bit of an over-reaction. Any ideas as to how to help him 'be good'? At the moment he is wailing upstairs in his cotbed (cage).

Actually it isn't normal behaviour for a three year old and certainly won't be acceptable once he starts school. I've only encountered 2 biters (Over the past few weeks he's been biting and kicking) and a handful of kickers among all of the children I've worked with over the years. Sorry.

I would start by trying to find out why he's biting and kicking. Does he know why? Then work on getting him to understand that biting /kicking isn't acceptable and it makes the people he bites /kicks unhappy/angry it makes mummy and daddy unhappy/angry and it makes him unhappy (wailing upstairs).

The IEP is intended to help not label your son so please don't feel it will mark him for life. Better to get it sorted out now.

Thanks. I think he's got the idea that biting and kicking is unacceptable and makes people unhappy. Fortunately have been reassured by another thread where people are talking about 3/4 year old boys' behaviour. And I work in education myself and understand the implications of an IEP.

Sorry you didn't like my answer but kicking and biting adults in school could lead to an exclusion which will stay with him far longer than an IEP.

Obviously I'm really hoping that he'll still be kicking and biting when he gets to school. Sadly I've come to the conclusion that it's just a phase that he will eventually come out of. This too shall pass.

Obviously you wanted me to say yes it's ok for him to be biting and kicking adults and the nursery is over reacting ...ok.
There's a big difference between a child biting once to "Over the past few weeks he's been biting and kicking".

An IEP is a positive thing to me and not a marker for life!!! My dd had one for her speech & communication (it was very poor for her age) within a year she no longer needed it. It's good because the teachers have to put thought into how they are going to approach issues, discuss them with you and then implement them! Far better than just ignoring a potential "big issue" and hoping it just goes away.

If my dd4 was getting bitten and kicked at pre-school by children going to school in September I would not be accept that is normal behviour!

tamsinmary I have to agree with mrz, i also work with children and don't think its normal boy behaviour. I also have a 2 year old who is very boistrous, he can be aggressive at home from time to time but has never been like that with anybody else. I think if its happening regularly you need to try and find A) the cause and B) a strategy for dealing with the behaviour that all the people caring for him can use.

themagicnumber i think its outrageous that this is the first time your hearing about this, they need to have come up with other ideas first.

Thanks so much to all of you for your guidance and support. I feel more confident now in approaching the pre-school about things we can all work on during the last six weeks of this term. Was thinking time out, extra encouragement for good playing, learning more about others feelings and a reward chart (thanks sunshine!).

Anyone got any more ideas of things I could suggest we try? Did I read somewhere about writing down clear rules and using pictures to illustrate them??

TBO, based on what the pre-school has (not) done so far I am less than confident about their abilities to implement what we agree. It seems almost like they are reinforcing the behaviour because they leave him alone until he behaves badly and then everyone comes running. I feel frustrated that I can't be a fly on the wall. Should I consider staying around for the odd session??

No, mrz, I didn't want you to say that. Obviously I am concerned about this recent development, and, as I said, the nursery people have been really helpful. I just find it slightly patronising to be told that I need to try and find out why, and then find a way to deal with it. Er, yes..

BTW, forgot to ask...

Does anyone know if I could get some private social skills coaching for DS1 over the Summer break? Does such a thing exist?? Just thinking of backing up what I do at home in case the pre-school aren't any help.

agree that it's a problem, but a bit surprised that this LA is so awash with money that they can get ActionPlus after such a short time and without having had to try anything much else beforehand

wish they'd send some down here

ds did go to a childminder who also minded a little boy who was very much like this at age 3; well actually he was much worse; ds used to come home with dppe bite marks on his back and the other boy's mum was in tears over it; but they managed it; the CM implemented whatever strategy they came up with and eventually he grew out of it; afaik he has never been in trouble at school

tamsinmary do you know why?

Themagicnumber does your son play with other children other than at pre school? Learning to play with others and share is difficult for some children. Playing games that require him to wait his turn might be a starting point. We use something called "Getting Along" which is a series of stories and fun activities in a small group with the child who is having difficulties and "good" role models (children who already have the social skills that need to be encouraged)

Good Luck

Themagicnumber i don't know where you are but my dh is a playball coach and they don't teach social skills as such but they do help to focus a child and teach them lots of lifeskills through sport, they use some the techniques that mrz is talking about.

There are lots of franchises in London were in sheffield, the international website is here but its not the most user friendly but let me know if you'd like to find a class near you.

In fact its probably easier if i route through all that nonsense useful info and find you this, its the program for 3's, my daughter has been doing this since she was two and its help her confidence no end.

This program covers the following basic areas and provides a sound foundation for the next age group.

1. Introduction to basic ball skills.
2. Development of student's enjoyment for sport.
3. Confidence to participate in sporting activities.
4. Social integration with other students.
5. Development of concentration.

The emphasis is on having fun and playing games with a ball so that the child's first introduction to sport is a happy and positive one.

Um, not sure- he either avoids the question or claims not to know. He also says he's sorry and won't do it again... I think it's a mixture of fury at not being able to do what he wants, and curiosity- he wants to see how far he can push. He doesn't do it to hurt- it's no more than a nip- but it's like a challenge to authority, which I suspect may be part of his genetic make-up. His dad and I agree that we've taken our eye off the ball a bit, and let him get away with too much. We're going to have a few days of zero tolerance- off to his room at the first signs of aggression, deprive him of attention for a while.I'm sure he'll come out of it eventually- he's fundamentally a cheerful, friendly little chap. Thankyou for asking.

I don't know why people are against IEPs,it stands for Individual Education Plan and is designed specifically for your DC. I would have thought that if your DC was causing problems at pre school it was a good idea to get any help that you can while he is very young. Work with them.

Early years action plans and IEP's are some of the best things that have come out of the school's in recent years so pleased do not see them as a bad thing my DS has been on school action plans since nursery (now Y3), it has helped a lot for me to see what he needs to be achieving as he has had speech and communication difficulties. They are a positive tool to enable the teachers to ensure that your child will gain the necessary tools and skills to enable them to get the best out of school. My DD doesn't need it and I often find it is difficult to see what her needs are at school.

I had to fight to get my DS an IEP-I would have been thrilled if we could have started earlier! I think he was about 7 by the time anyone admitted he had a problem.

Wolf - Thanks there is playball near me and I will look it up.