Is bad behaviour always because of bad parenting?

[blackmonday]

The reason i ask is because i've got 2 dd's aged 3 and 5. i love them more than life itself but they are SO difficult, especially the 3 year old. Everything is a battle and it's making my life miserable. She won't get dressed in the mornings, no amount of coaxing makes any difference (reward charts don't work with her either). She has the most intense tantrums that last for ages and are ear splitting. We've tried the naughty step but she'll just lay there screaming for hours. I am so embarrassed when i see my neighbours as they must think I'm the worst parent in the world (which i must be ). I try so hard to keep my cool but it can be really difficult. my five year old also has tantrums if things don't go her way and can kick me and scream hysterically. I've got no extended family to give me a break and dh works long hours so most of the time it's just me and them. They also scream at eachother constantly, even when we are out. Has anyone got any advice for me before i go mad. thanks x

Hi blackmonday, both my dcs are tantrummers, ds 2.8 is still in the thick of it, and dd 5.8 no longer tantrums but continues to be whiney.

I would never have believed it but some parents report that their children never tantrum.

Now it could be because I am a bad parent, but it is also more likely the temperament of your dcs. Dd and ds tantrum in different ways - both a direct result of their personalities.

Dd tantrums and finds it hard to calm down on her own. She is still like that at 5.8. Ds has more spectacular tantrums (thrashing on the floor, screaming at the top of his voice) but once he is done, it is like a cloud is lifted and he is all cuddles and smiles again.

Dd also refused to get dressed in the morning and I struggled everyday as she went to nursery from a young age. Now she gets dressed most mornings by herself and it is ds I have to whip into shape. They do outgrow this stage, hth.

really feel for you blackmonday as I thought you may have been a freind of mone commenting on my DS1's behaviour

I sincerely hope that all bad behaviour isn't because of bad parenting - although I have yet to meet a child who is prefectly behaved all the time.

I am at the end of my tether with DS1 (7) and the strategies in all the books don't seem to work with him.

I think wew just have to keep trying and not give up on them - parenting is bloody hard work and anyone that says it isn't is lying IMO

I bloody hope not! I have felt so dreadful about DS's tantrum stages when I have had to drag him home screaming and everyone else's kids are playing sweetly together . Yet I think we are fairly firm parents who expect a lot of DS and have consistent boundaries etc - and sometimes I wonder if that is part of it - DS is very stubborn and fights hard to get his way, and so there is a battle IYSWIM. I know some parents who never seem to tell their kids off and they always get their own way - and they don't tantrum. Maybe they don't feel the need to as there is no boundary to push against...

Well anyway that is one desperate theory that has wandered though my head at my worst moments... but also I do think some children just do have a stroppy/tantrummy nature and others less so.

Since having to deal with DS at his worst I certainly judge people with badly behaved kids a lot less.

To OP, no, it's not. But it's easy to get into a pattern where you're constantly in a 'battle', and it's not fun, and hard for all of you to move through. Been there, done that. Have you looked at the 'how to talk so kids will listen/ unconditional parenting' threads? Changing my whole approach was a lifesaver for me/us.
The more you get into that 'I'm judged on the basis of my kids' behaviour' thing, the more pressure and panic and feeling shit is going to infect your relationship with them, and it makes it worse. There are people who can explain it much better than me, get yourself over there and see if it rings any bells for you.
Giving myself permission to enjoy them without feeling I was a bad parent for not being on their backs the whole time was a revelation for me. Eg, what would happen if she didn't get dressed? She'd go to school in her pj's? Not saying that's the answer, but sometimes when you're banging your head against a brick wall you need to step back and see if there's a door somewhere.

Agree with "how to talk so kids will listen..." book, it has helped us a lot too.

On coping strategies, mine just involves muddling through. I work pt and use lots of childcare.

I appreciate that this is a very personal decision whether or not you want to be in paid employment and use childcare but for me, it saved my sanity.

It also gave the children a break from each other.

I used to co-sleep with my dd and then ds. They frequently would come into the bed with me and play on weekend mornings for an hour. Some people say co-sleeping siblings get along better, which is something I fell into by accident (dd was a very bad sleeper, as was ds).

As for getting dressed in the mornings, over the worst of it, I got dd to sleep in comfy clothes that she could wear to nursery the next day. So problem solved.

If ds starts to seriously tantrum, I put him in the middle of the carpet and let him get on with it, whilst I do housework and things around him. Dd is not allowed to needle him until him calms down. If it gets too loud, I move ds to the bedroom - it is not a timeout because there is no time limit or closed doors, but I make it clear that he is too noisy.

Does your dd go to school. Can you make friends with other parents on your street and take turns to have children over, so that you get a break. It sounds very hard.

You are not alone. Shouting seems to do the trick sometimes, but like you say, what will the neighbours think!

Hi Blackmonday

There's no such thing as a perfect child or a perfect parent. There are techniques that can help to minimise behavioural issues (or so the child psychologists will tell you!) and it's worth looking into this kind of thing, if only for your sanity!

I've watched programmes like Tiny Tearaways and such and have seen kids go from raging monsters to well behaved kids with just a few adjustments in their parenting.

It must be easy when you're in a controlled environment, though, with a child psychologist on the doorstep for when things go wrong.

Personally I don't have much to share on this from personal experience. My dd is one of those mythical kids that doesn't tantrum (sorry...not meaning this smugly) but we do have food issues with her.

I think EVERY child has issues of some kind. You only have so much time to parent, so you pick your battles and you find your strategies. NO-ONE succeeds at everything, so don't beat yourself up.

Pick a couple of things you want to improve, look on t'internet for advice and go from there!

Hope all you posters manage to pick up hints/tips/something to make you feel better about yourselves as parents. It's a tough job and there's no manual. If you care enough to post, you care enough to make a difference. Good luck!

Tantrums aren't bad behaviour in a 3 yr old.
They are normal.

Another recommendation for the 'how to talk books ...' - which probably will only work on an older child, not a tantrumming 3-year old.

Also look into Parenting your Spirited Child: A Guide for Parents whose child is more intense, sensitive, perceptive, persistent or energetic.

Squilly, didn't want to imply your daughter is abnormal in anyway!

Opposing your parents is normal, whether it is through sulking, refusing to eat or raging.

I believe that bad behaviour is due to parenting, not bad parenting.

I have DC who behave badly at various times, and a DS who is very often badly behaved.

When mine do behave badly it is usually due to my lack of attention or consistency or similar.

With DS, it is about self esteem probably and a need to gain attention through acting up. The low self esteem has been partly caused by external factors and is probably partially due to his personality. However, it is my parenting that has the ability to negate the effects of these things.

I work with behaviour management and used to consult privately in this area so it is not something one is lacking in in terms of skill or parenting personality, it's just one of those things. I know a zillion techniques but I still do it 'badly', it's just because we are always in the moment and hindsight is never that helpful!

Some 'supernanny' type suggestions-

Involve dd in getting dressed '[red shorts or blue shorts?' etc If no reply choose worst option.

Keep calm - talk softly so she has to stop to listen

tantrums through the day - 'if you keep making that noise I'll have to take you upstairs'. And do it. Calmly. Shut the door. I did find this separation worked best.

Once tantrum is over (on your terms) carry on as if it didn't happen.

Well, they normal but also bad and by that I don't mean naughty, just bad in terms of wearing everyone out and making it hard to get things done, and being distressing for others. My DS had the worst ever phase of tantrums a few weeks ago and I was at my wits' end. He is over it now and is being (mainly) sweet and chatty and helpful. Both are normal but I'm pretty sure we are all a lot happier at the moment! It is good if you have ways of averting or soothing tantrums - the "How to talk" book is very good for that.

muffle: "I know some parents who never seem to tell their kids off and they always get their own way - and they don't tantrum. Maybe they don't feel the need to as there is no boundary to push against..."

I don't know about this one. If you have a tantrummer, they will always find something to tantrum about, even if you don't have boundaries, if that is possible.

eg I want to walk to the shops.

No, it is too far.

Yes also v true blueshoes. I think with that theory I was just trying to make myself feel better...

lo blueshoes you've just brought back memories of them sleeping in next day's clothes! Sometimes it's better to do a short term fix depending on how wibbly you feel

ellingwoman, the first 2 supernanny strategies would never work on my dcs. They just rev up far too quickly. The last would work on ds though. My dd would just much more upset and take longer to calm down. Depends on the child.

never worked on mine either!

Although talking quietly does help sometimes now they are teenagers and go off on one for no reason. I refuse to get drawn in and fuel a shouting session.

of course not - but that doesn't mean it can't be improved with good parenting. Good diet can help too. Watch the TV programmes and you'll notice just how often the problems are that people give in to their children all the time because they can't bear to see them upset or just for a quiet life. And sometimes they speak to them in such a gentle fashion that the child pays no attention. Older children will revert to tantrums if they see a younger one getting attention that way.

Young children need tough love sometimes. If they scream at each other when out take them home if you can.

ellingwoman, muffle

Does this help, in respect of your three year old DD? I found it quite interesting.

temper tantrums in 2 and 3 year olds

blackmonday - i second blueshoes' suggestion - i found 'raising your spirited child' the ONLY book that seemed to understand the difficulties i was going through at your stage. my DD was astonishingly difficult from the age of 2-6... tantrums, generally v negative mindset, poor sleeper, v sensitive, like handling a grenade that might explode at any moment, in short. the good news is that, at 8, she is a different child - mainly, i suspect, because of the passing of time, rather than any particular strategies i deployed (sigh!). that book went a long way to explaining her to me and to reassuring me that it wasn't (just!!) because of my parenting. i am totally with those who say that techniques can help, of course, but i really think temperament accounts for a lot. DS is totally different. i adore them both but DD was the greatest challenge i have ever faced and has shaped me forever accordingly!good luck - it will get SO much better, i promise

having said that about temperament, i do agree with tatt - i did spend a couple of years in a sort of state of shock at having such a whirlwind invade our previously peaceful family unit, and did give in to this incredibly strong-willed child of mine too often. i was also the type to speak too gently and be generally a bit too conciliatory. experience helped, as did going on a parenting course- the triple p programme is excellent - that was in oz, where we were at the time, but i've read it's being rolled out in parts of the uk too - definitely worth attending if that's an option!

I think the answer is not always but in a lot of cases you do have to conclude that it probably is. Having said that I agree with others that a tantrum in a young child isn't bad behaviour, its just what some do and some don't and its luck of the draw which sort you get.
I have 4 dcs, three of whom are past the tantrum stage and one is still to come. The only advice I can give is to ignore it and try not to worry about what everyone else in the supermarket/car park or play group thinks. Easier said than done but I do think its worth a try if you're strong enough.

I really don't think the naughty step works, in fact I think it can be counterproductive. Have a read of this thread and consider posting on it - the mums on there are coming up with some great ways of coping with children and toddlers