did i do this right?

[booyhoo]

ds(almost 4) has been playing up a bit recently, i have previously posted about naughty step, and yesterday he slapped another little girl in our neighbourhood. so anyway this morning he came into my room at 6.30, he usually isnt up til 7.30, and asked for cartoons on. i told him they werent on yet as it was too early and said that he could play in his room or go to sleep in my bed until it was time to get up. he whinged that he wanted cartoons but got into my bed anyway. he continued to whinge so i told him if he was going to whinge and keep asking for cartoons then i would take him to his own room. he kicked me. so i took him to the naughty step where he sat banging the stairgate off the banisters. when i went to get him off he had peed on the floor, i gnored this as its an old trick he does on the naughty step so didnt want to give attention for it. anyway as a punishment for kicking me i took him to his room and told him he wouldnt be getting to watch any cartoons today. i put him in the room and closed the door and went back to my bedroom. for an hour he kept coming out of the room kicking and punching my door and screaming really high pitched scream. i persisted and made him go back to the room each time and after an hour he eventually stayed. i left him for ten minutes and then went and told him it was tim to get up now. he said he didnt mean to be bold. did i do the right thing? what would you have done in this situation. im due to give birth in two weeks and really want to curb this behavior beforehand.

i just wandered why you did naughty step and then to his room for an hour

its natural to whinge and whine i would have offered to get him some breakfast and sit watching cartoons to be honest

my ds gets up at 5 i get up i do his breakfast i settle him then go off for an hour its hard at this age if there awake 6.30 is reasonable time to be up

i wouldn't have let him get so worked up either as he was awake he was not able to go abck to sleep his got frustrated and i would ahve tried to solve that as his been punished really for being up at 6.30 when alot of children have already been up for an hour or so

i see your pregnant so really you want him in his room, so you can rest more but it would be easier for you to settle him with breakfast and tv so you can lay up for an hour more than expect him to do nothing for an hour while you stay in bed as he'll create his frustrated and wide awake so you'd be better to see to him settle him then go and rest once his happy and settled

in my house expecting ds to settle to 7.30 would feel like afternoon to him his up at 5 am every day if your ds goes to bed at 7.30 4 yr olds only need 10 hrs sleep

i didnt intend to send him to his room for an hour, ten minutes tbh but the fact that he kept coming out, i felt it important that i put him back until he accepted that he was to stay there. i wouldnt punish a 3 year old with an hour in his room. i also didnt expect him to sleep in his room, i just wanted to make the point that if he was going to be disruptive in my room then he wasnt welcome to stay there. i didnt put him to bed, just to his room.

i see you said you put him in naughty step and then to his room for kicking you just wandered why the kicking and whinging couldnt have been done on the naughty step at same time rather than 2 punishments

its confused me slightly thats all

i think its frustrating for young child to be awake and not be able to amuse them selves it might be better for you to get up pop tv on pour some cereal and go back to bed for an hour than be up and down dealing with frustrated behaviour

I think you did the right thing entirely. The only thing I'm confused about, perhaps because I've misunderstood the post (no paragraphs, my eyes! ), is why he had the naughty step and then the time in the room for the same thing?

From reading it sounds like you revisited the cartoons whinging and re-punished iyswim?

Also, I tend to go for three strikes and you're out so there would be a warning of the ten minutes in the room before it happened and if the child ignored the request twice then on the third whinge it would be off to the step/room for the allotted time.

5 misn might be more suitable age 4 as opposed to a full 10.

he often takes himself to his room to play during the day and will play for longer than an hour so it isnt an alien concept to him.

i take your point about the naughty step and then being sent to room, ie two punishments. i think the reason i did this is because the naughty step has been proving unsuccesful recently and i think i felt i needed to reinforce it with something. i need to decide on one punsihment rather than a list of things.

for kicking/hitting, what punishment would you think suitable. naughty step really isnt working for us.

he did get warnings in the room that if he continued to whinge he would have to go into his own room, not as a punishment but because he was being disruptive in my room and ive told him in the past that he can make as much noise as he wants in his own room but not in other peoples.

In what way isn't the step working?

I do behaviour management consultancy (less so these days) and am an advocate of 'time out' but there are subtle differences in the ways you can use it.

re kicking/hitting, there was a thread on this yesterday "how do you discipline your child" - a few different points of view there, as always!

kicking i would take to room or naughty step or if has a fave toy take it away and he can earn it back with good behaviour

i think if his done his time on naughty step then its done move on from there and explain why he was there etc

if his used to playing in his room does he have cup of water or anything so he has something to drink in that hour my ds can get really frustrated if hungry or thirsty

as for weeing my ds does this too in naughty corner its where his gotten himself into such a state he wees not on purpose but an anxiety thing

in that when he is put on it, he kicks up a fuss by screaming and hen very quickly sits singing/playing. then he'll call and call me saying " i want to say sorry now" he'll bark an apology, which i always make him repeat properly. but then the behaviour that he was put there for will come back as quick as he's off. it also doesnt seem to have an affect when he is warned that he will go to the naughty step. he continues behaviour. not sure if that makes sense.

he always comes and asks for a drink or food if he wants it in the morning, thats never a problem, he knows he can do that.

just trying to find what could be getting him so frustrated

you seem to be doing the right thing i think once time is done if his just whinging then ignore it if he's kicking then he goes back

children do whinge and sometimes you just have to ignore and pick your battles so you dont make it too much hard work on yourself

maybe can get a tub and have anew consequence that if he continues being naughty kicking not so much whining or you could do that all day but only really naughty behaviour then his toy will go in tub and he can earn it back

you can then tell him what you want him to do sit in room for 5 mins etc and then he can earn his toy back if only nearly 4 i would only do 3-4 mins not 10

but you do need to pick battles distract and ignore any little attempts to get your attention any naughty such as throwing or not doing as told then i would say if you dont stop that you will lose your so and so toy and again take it away and he can earn it back

but be careful not to punish normal toddler behavior and one is to whinge you need to shut off and distract them into doing something different to stop them rather than punish for it

ok, so decide on one thing like taking a toy for violent behaviour.

the whingeing i generally do ignore but i think the fact that he was in my room and im getting more and more aware that that is where the baby will be and he needs to learn to respect that its not his and that there are boundaries. i guess i just took it too far. i admit i am gettin anxious about how he will behave when baby is born so am probably coming down too hard all of a sudden, which is why he reacted so badly this morning.

i ignored the peeing and he banging of the stairgate because i knew it was for a reaction that he did it so i wasnt going to give him one.

i think perhaps talk of the baby might be making him feel a bit insecure.

could you get a book explaining arrival of new baby and his role of big brother and how mummy and daddy will still love him too

toy being taken away is just a suggestion children react differently to different punishments its just one you could maybe try you can take as many toys for different bad behaviour one at a time of course

and they can be earnt back so you could say if you eat your dinner nicely at the table you can earn a toy back maybe seeing the benefit of being good may work it may not but always worth a try

With all behaviour 'management' the consequence comes at the end. There is a lot that can be done to avoid some scenarios in the first place and this is more complex.

When I work with families I like to take a look at many dynamics. Relationship between carers, degree of time spent with each, language used, developmental stages, changes in the family, etc.

Sometimes just changing the tone of an afternoon by altering schedules, the words and tone used when communicating, adding more eye contact or giving less attention in some cases! can all help.

He sounds really stubborn . My DS is the same. I try and head him mine off, as if we get to stand off he can get stuck in a rage. I think it's a power thing - they have so little of it at four, so it means much to them, which I think is fair enough in lots of ways. I do zero tolerance about anything abusive, so yelling at me, shouting, hitting, etc. But if we get into a rut of tantrum, I quite often go and sit with him in his room until he's calmed enough for a cuddle. Reasoning is that with us, if he gets to that pitch, he's horribly upset and genuinely can't stop, so I can't see that helps him or me. Once we've calmed the tears and had a cuddle, we talk about what was fair/ what wasn't. I explain that how he was behaving wasn't accetable, he has to apologise, but then we move on. It works for us, and we never have the same tantrum next day, so we definitely win the battle (if not the war!). I suppose what I'm trying to say, is that I think you did the right thing, but an hour's far too long. I'd change tactics a long time before then. I'm not saying give into it, but I wouldn't let it go on for that long either.

If I was in that situation I would've just let him watch something else if his cartoons weren't on and thus head off all the issues afterwards. I would suggest that in his mind you punished him for waking up early, something which he had no control of and has no concept of, by not letting him watch something.

smee your tactic sounds very good, i think that might work with ds. he is stubborn, but so am i so i think that makes it worse cause neither of us will give in. i'll have to work on my own mindset aswell before i try and discipline ds.

SummatAnNowt i see what you mean about him feeling punished for waking up early, it wouldnt have been a punishment if he hadnt kicked me but then i guess he wouldnt have kicked if he had gotten his own way. not sure i think giving him his own way is what i want to encourage though.

The naughty step doesn't work for all children, it never did with DS, so it might be an idea to reevaluate whether or not it is actually helping with your DS.

With the whinging, how about just saying to him every time he whinges "use a normal voice pleae" and ignoring what he says until he says it with a normal voice? This works wonders with some children, but again, doesn't suit them all!

with the whingeing i tell him i cant understand him if he's whingeing. and ask him to let me know when he is finished so i can listen. looks like thats just going to be a constant thing and not penny dropping kind of thing. iyswim. i think you are right about the naughty step, it used to work when he was small but i think he realises now that it isnt really a bad thing so it isnt a threat.

As a parent of the world's most stubborn child (I kid you not) I agree wholeheartedy with smee's advice and use this method with ds. Also, if he gets really worked up and upset the easiest way to calm the whole situatin down is to just get onto his level and hold him, tight, until he has calmed down.

booyhoo, don't tell him what you don't want him to do "stop whinging", tell him what you do want him to do "use a normal voice please".

Sometimes a simple rewording or rephrasing of a request makes all the difference to the child.

ok, i'll try and remember that when he starts again, just as an update, he's behaved extremely well all morning since that incident.

also, it is really really important that he does not get the feeling that he is excluded from your room because of the baby

I am afraid that is the best way to get him to kick the baby

he needs to be wherever you are, during the early months of becoming a big brother. Sometimes, it may mean leaving the baby on its own (it won't mind!) and taking him with you when you go into the other room

I wouldn't leave him alone with the baby though, if he is feeling a bit wobbly

make sure he is where you are

but excluding him from your presence is going to be pretty much a no-no from now on

in many ways, he needs you more than the baby

this can be hard to get your head round when you are on your second pregnancy

you think he needed you so much when he is tiny; now it's his turn to give way gracefully to his new little sibling

it isn't

the fact that there is a new baby won't make him any bigger or less demanding; if anything, it's likely to make him need to be a baby too