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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Would you let your toddler behave like this?

98 replies

ghosty · 02/05/2005 09:40

I had an interesting experience at DS's swimming lesson today ...
It was pretty crowded and I found a place next to another mum to sit and watch. This other mum had a toddler with her who was playing with another child but as soon as he saw me sit in what he thought was 'his' place he lost it and threw a wobbly ...
Now, I am no stranger to wobblies ... have had a toddler AND have an 'almost' toddler ...
BUT this woman said to me, "You are sitting in his place" ... I was a bit gobsmacked as I thought 'Um, who is the adult here?'. It was on the tip of my tongue to say, "I am a grown up and he is a child ... " but what I did was squeeze up a bit so that he could sit between his mum and me ... so then he started climbing all over me ...
He got up and went off ... so I moved away from the lady on the other side of me to give her some space. When he came back he lost it again and the mother looked at me expecting me to move.

Had this been DS I would have first of all told him that that lady was now sitting there but he could sit on my lap OR, if he had continued to be awful I would have taken him to a quiet corner to have his tantrum in peace ... I would not have expected an adult to appease him and move ....

What would you have done?

Oh, by the way ... at some point in the proceedings this little boy took a swimming float and bopped him mum on the head with it ... What did she do? She hit him back, quite hard, on the head with the float and said, "See, it hurts doesn't it?" ... which also shocked me ...

Perhaps I am too precious, I dunno ....

OP posts:

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Donbean · 02/05/2005 15:48

Agree with collision though 100%

collision · 02/05/2005 16:07

thank you donbean

assumedname · 02/05/2005 16:08

I would have let the adult have the seat. It's just common courtesy. The same would go for travelling on the bus. You let older/more needy people sit down before children.

If there'd been some particular need for the child to sit down, I would have let him sit in my place and I would have stood up.

vess · 02/05/2005 18:56

If I was the mother with the toddler, I would never have asked another woman to move for my son - but if she did, I would have thought she's really nice, and if she didn't - that she's a bit of a selfish cow, just sitting there watching me dealing with a tantrum... would have asked my son to sit on my lap, though - he should learn that not all people are going to be nice to him!
If I was the other woman, I would have probably got up - dealing with toddler tantrums in public is terrible and I could spare one to another mum, I would!

ssd · 02/05/2005 19:24

I would have told my ds to sit on my lap, the seat didn't have "reserved" on it did it

Silly woman, and we wonder how some kids grow up to be such brats!

PaigeMorgan · 02/05/2005 19:40

hey.

weird thread.

if the woman had said when ghosty sat down her son was there and if he came back to move up . then that would be fine.

we all understand how desperate it feels when our kids tantruming especially if your attention is on another child. BUT the woman should have concentarted on her toddler said no and either put him on her lap, ignored him or taken him away.
thats what id do.

if kids have a tantrum at things like that its because he wanted to be with mummy again NOT have THAT seat so she should of put him on her lap!

hope that made sense.

PaigeMorgan · 02/05/2005 19:40

oh and would someone look at Lusciouses thread on "help she wont sleep". i didnt know what to say.

bubbly1973 · 02/05/2005 20:19

assumedname, ....your comment about the bus...

i had this conversation not long ago with my dh

i would always teach my ds to show some respect to his elders, so if in ghosty's situation, i would have sat ds on my lap

however, on a bus...no i wouldnt

reason...health and safety

if i was sitting on a seat and so was ds on the next seat, and then another adult came along and had to stand up, i wouldnt offer my seat as i would want to be with my ds at all times, if there was an accidetn, id like to think i was near enough to be able to try to save him from bumping his head or worse

he is going to be 3 in june by the way, i feel its up to me to put him first in certain situations like when travelling

bubbly1973 · 02/05/2005 20:29

should add, that at this age, ive not been on a bus with him, have on a train though, if i was on a bus, id probably have him on my lap as he would wriggle around and want to stand up etc etc, so safer on my lap i would imagine

but now im thinking....is that safe? is it safer on a lap on a bus at that age, or better for them to have there own seat?

best not go travelling on a bus me thinks!

collision · 03/05/2005 15:40

Interesting Bubbly. I would think a toddler might be safer on a lap than on a seat in the case of an accident as there arent any seatbelts on a bus/train so you might be able to hold on to him better.....and he would be wedged in by an adult sitting next to you!!

tarantula · 03/05/2005 16:08

not very good on commenting on other people but I have to say that if it was my child I would say quite firmly that no they couldnt have the seat and would have to sit on my lap. If it was me that was in Ghostys position Id have shifted up and let the child sit down like Ghosty did but would nto have got up because Im of the opinion if you want a seat then you sit in it and if you go off and play then you cant expect to have your seat back when you want it.

Onthe subject of buses tho I always thought that children up to 5 should be put on knees if an adult needed the seat (presuming that there was a knee available so if you had two kids then obviously only one could go on your knee). Im sure Ive seen something about this the bus guidelines or somewhere Ill have to go look at it. Could be jsut talking out of my spinerettes tho

uwila · 04/05/2005 09:38

I haven't read this whole thread, but Ghosty, I totally agree with you for a couple of reasons:

1- You are the adult.
2- That mother is doing her child no favour by teaching him that he can have whatever he wants (even when that seat doesn't actually belong to him. It is a mother's job to teach her toddler to respect others / particularly elders.
3- If that mother was staking claims to the seat, why did she not say, "my son is sitting there." BEFORE you sat down?
4- Excuse me? Ummm... public seat. If you get up from it, you don't own it anymore (never did actually).

Mud, I have to respecfully disagree with your first post. I have no sympathy for that mother, as she is the reason that toddler acts as he does.

Azure · 04/05/2005 10:20

Just wanted to comment on buses. For 8 months I travelled with DS (then up to 3.5) on a bus to and from nursery. When the bus was busy we were almost never offered a seat, meaning we had to stand, even though many of the seated people were only travelling a couple of stops. Consequently, when I did manage to get seats next to each other for DS and me I only offered DS's seat (him coming on my lap, for which there wasn't much space) if someone less able to stand got on. Most of the people of the bus were fit-looking 20-somethings only travelling a short distance and, no, I didn't offer a seat to them.

handlemecarefully · 04/05/2005 10:43

But tantrums are such a bloody trial in a public place - who needs them? If I was the mother I would have done the following:

"Don't be silly ds/dd - you're weren't sitting there just then. That lady is perfectly entitled to sit there"

If ds/dd persisted to the other mum I would say:

"Look I am really sorry and I appreciate that this isn't an entirely reasonable request - but would you mind moving up a little? My dd / ds is a bit tired and overwrought and I really can't face a tantrum right now - so if you don't mind?"

If you think about it, as an adult we wouldn't think twice about saying to anther adult:

"Actually I am very sorry but I was just sitting there. I only just got up for a second just then..."

However I don't think the lady you refer to was very polite about the whole thing!

I also wouldn't think twice about bopping my dd / ds over the head with a swimming float in the way you described if my dd/ds did it to me....

handlemecarefully · 04/05/2005 10:51

Just read the whole thread - some of you are very blase about meltdown tantrums in public places. I wish I could have that sort of composure..but then I can't easily manage dd (2.10) when she goes off on one in a public arena whilst I also have to supervise my 13 month old.

Much easier at home where I can banish her to time out.

handlemecarefully · 04/05/2005 10:55

And tbh despite being quite a confident person I do wither and die inside when some people look at me as if I am shit on their shoe when dd is in full tantrum mode...

handlemecarefully · 04/05/2005 11:26

Ha! - have killed the thread obviously by putting across a cogent and well argued pov!

FLUM · 04/05/2005 11:48

Child should have sat on the swimming float on the floor. I would have suggested that to the irritatingly precious mother.

pabla · 04/05/2005 12:17

Ok, in an ideal world the mother should have dealt with the situation differently - but none of you know this woman or her ds and what her reasons were. My ds1 has been a very difficult child for the past two years (though he has improved a bit recently) and there have been times when I would have done anything to avoid yet another tantrum. She may have had a really bad day and not been able to face another stand-off. I am able to deal with ds when we are at home and he can be sent to his room but public tantrums are very hard as he is physically very strong (and strong-willed.) I especially dread swimming lessons and having to keep the ds's under control while I'm waiting. Ok maybe she is crap at dealing with her ds but obviously all you tut-tutting have angelic children (and all girls of course!)

baka · 04/05/2005 12:35

tbh I think the more difficult your child, and the more likely they are to throw a wobbly in public the more yoou have to not give in.

I went to a talk (and I keep bleating on about this on mumsnet but it was amazing) last week giiven by a severely autistic adult. She is 38 still in nappies, cannot go out on the street alone, cannot be left unsupervised, and also shows "extreme challenging behaviour" (her words- in other words if left to it she'll shit smear, climb roofs etc). Anyway she said that as parents you should expect the same from your autistic child as you would from any other. She is furious with the NAS for encouraging theme parks to offer exit passes (which allow you to queue jump) as she belives that autistic or not, challenging or not, you should keep trying and keep aiming for appropriate behaviour. She said that her parents "loved her too much" to allow her to queue jump- and that now at 38 she can sometimes queue (not always, but 8 times out of 10 maybe). She said that she needed to be taught those hard lessons of considering others (hard for her as she has zero empathy) and behaving appropriately by people who loved her. I thought it was a good lesson to apply to all children really.

It really struck a cord with me, and I think really in cases like this of normal toddler tantruming- the little boy does need to learn that if you stand up the seat is no longer yours and scremaing and throwing a wobbly doesn't get you anywhere. Would have done the same as ghosty (although I may have bobbed him on the head- depends how hard).

miranda2 · 04/05/2005 12:46

Surely the mother should have let the adult have the seat - I would certainly expect to carry on sitting in a seat I had sat down in whilst a toddler went on mum's knee. What if ghosty was pregnant or something and just didn't look it but really needed to sit down?
And on buses and trains, however inconvenient it may be, I always accept that my under 5 year old has not paid and so is only entitled to a seat if there is one free - he has to go on my lap if it is crowded so someone else (even a fit and healthy looking someone) who has paid for a seat can have it.
In both cases, I agree its different if the mother has 2 children with her.

tarantula · 04/05/2005 13:06

oh wow pabla Do you mean to say that girls dont have toddler tantrums. Cool thats made my day cso I was dreading dd turning 2

handlemecarefully · 04/05/2005 13:21

tarantula,
sorry but they most definitely do!

uwila · 04/05/2005 13:33

Oh no, I was going to take DD to the doctor and complain that my toddler is having tantrums and ask what is wrong with her.

tarantula · 04/05/2005 13:33

oh no sob and here was me getting my hopes up. thanks HMC guess Id better come down to reality and just learn some parentingtechniques to deal with it. Am having lessons in how not to be embarressed but screaming child when out in public ATM and must say they are going quite well.

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