too intelligent for the other kids in the nursery???

[sjb2405]

hi, i am posting for advice and to see of anyone else has ever been told this. a member of my family were asked by their sons nursery to see a paedeatrician about his behaviour. He does not associate with other children, does not communicate, does not play, has no idea of what is dangerous, hurts the other children. They said if he was to stay in nursery they would have to get funding for an extra helper next year and i think they were maybe after a diagnosis of ?? autism?? learning disabilites? not sure. He is very hard work and is not like any other 3.5 year old i have come across. The doctor said that he is so intelligent that he gains nothing from the other kids as they bore him and he obviously gets his stimulation from his parents. His parents are quitedelighted by this but there is something else not right. I am no expert but can the other 30 kids in nursery really be so dull. unlikely I would have thought. Any thoughts or experience very welcome.

I have a profoundly gifted 15 yr old son who has never had problems such as you describe, in which case superior intelligence is not the cause alone of your relatives behaviour.
I suspect if his parents seem as one track minded about his behaviour as you imply, then that is a cause.
But the nursery will hopefully prompt a referral where he can be properly checked and then if a diagnosis is required, provide one.

Intelligence is fine, but the other traits set alarm bells ringing. If it was a GP who made these comments, then not worth the paper etc .... or was it the paed ? Mind you, this does remind me of a lad my ds2 was at school with. They asked for him to be assessed as 'something' was different - they did and he was classed to be gifted and talented. However, he was aware of what upset or hurt other children. I don't think being super bright stops you from having empathy or understanding personal space etc. It's a tricky one .....

How old is he - this is important. There is a stage in development when they develop empathy and he just may not have reached it yet.

My DD is bored shitless with the other kids at nursery, she describes them as 'noisy' and 'annoying' because 'I just want to sit and read' (she's two and a half). I wouldn't say though that she had anything particularly gifted or otherwise about her - she's just bloody antisocial and interested in books. She hasn't got to the stage where she wants to play with other kids - she will play alongside them perfectly happily though.

Is it possible the nursery is making assumptions about his developmental stage which are not right for him?

I think Cat64 may well be right. When my sons were seen by the Paed he commented on how bright they were/are. It would have been much easier to cling on to that little snippet than to think about all the other things that were said about their development (they have autism).

There is far more to gain from nursery than the academic side of things. My two have certainly benefitted from being around their peers. They might have been ahead in an academic sense but they have learned a lot about social skills.

you are all right in what you say. i haven't given as much info as i could as it is a very long drawn out thingand it is hard when you cannot describe the personalities involved. what stands out though is whomovedmy says her 2.5 yr old says the words "noisy annoyiing and that they want to read" He cannot communicate this and he is 3.5. Also (not sure of you find this odd but i do) he knows the names of every car and make and model on the road. which is great maybe but not when it is the only words you know. i get the feeling that the nursery are suggesting things and trying to get the parents to come to their own conclusions. they are finding that they need one member of staff to llok after him alone at the expense of the other kids.
It is all a bit tricky and mum is super defensive.

"does not communicate"

What does this mean ? Can he talk at a normal 3.5 child but chooses not to ?

"does not play"

again is this due to choice in the nursery setting or lack of abiliity?

what did the doctor base his diagnosis on hyper intelligence on?
this post makes me feel
I work with children this age and have yet to meet one so intelligent he can't talk or play,
sounds more like some sort of special need that will need diagnosing.

my ds2 is 2 and knows car makes and models
But he also asks what's the matter if someonecries and rubs them better
He also says sorry when he bumps you and talks about other things.
He loves other kids. Noisier and faster the better.
I know he's bright but know also in other areas he's fab
They really need to get his communication seen by a trained therapist. It may be the start of a process that is very important for that childs success.

agree with Piffle (assuming from your posts that the lad can't communicate well at home that it's not just a nursery thing) and intelligence and asd are not mutually exclusive...

I agree with Piffle. My DS1 knew every make of car at the age of 2yrs but it didn't stop him playing with them. It sounds as if the parents are very proud of his intellectual development but have done nothing about his social development. Does he see other DCs outside nursery, does he run around, get dirty,dress up and play imaginitive games etc?
I am shocked that the doctor could say that he gains nothing from other children. Even if he was a genius, he has a lot to gain from other children. If he is bored by them it is a problem with him-not the other DCs.

Agree with Cat64. Sounds like the doctor may have made some comforting remark about possible intelligence in the context of disability (?autism) and that the parents seized on this as it was the bit they could deal with.

Certainly, it is possible to be both very intelligent and have a disability which affects your ability to interrelate with other children. It does not follow either that everybody with such a disability is hyperintelligent or that it is the intelligence that causes the disability.

Remember this info about what the GP said is being presented to you by your relatives second-hand and could be rather different from what was really said.

Agree with what others have said about intelligence and interaction/ empathy. If a dc is highly intelligent and doesn't want to interact much that's fairly normal but not having any empathy or ability to communicate is not.

Agree with others that there might be some other underlying problem but also want to stress that 'normal' or neuro typical is also a huge spectrum and there are certainly ime some 3.5 yr olds that do not really interact at all with other children and do prefer adult company, never really settle at pre school. This does not automatically mean that they have any need of a diagnosis. My nephew, for example, was a very high maintenance little boy, had no time at all for pre school setting, found it and other children a complete waste of time. He didnt blossom until secondary school and is now a fab young man at cambridge. not that that is the be all and end all, but hope you get what i mean.

everything all of you says makes sense and the questions are ones that we are all asking. i thought it looked obvious that he was on the autistic spectrum but the Paedaetrician said he couldn't be as he doesn't line his cars up?? my 5yr old used to line his cars up and he knew the makes eg. that is a vw. but not that is a VW Golf 2.0 hatchback!he is not autistic but maybe would have been diagnosed by this dr. Little boy in question shows no signs of potty training, does not feed himself (even with fingers, does not answer anything and the only people that understand him are his parents. Most upsetting of all is he looks so sad. When i ahve shown friends pictures of him they all say "aahh he looks so sad". without pointing the finger too much his mum and dad do not help and will not acknowledge that they need help. they just keep saying he is a 3 year old boy what do they expect. Problem is pre school are expecting a lot more. I have another relative who is a gifted child but it on the spectrum so the family has limited experience of this. thanks for all the messages. I was beginning to think i couldn't see the wood for the trees. Now to talk to the people that matter.

I agree with everyone else - it sounds like the GP has tried to say something positive, but you dont know the context of the remark (or even if that was exactly what was said).
Did the GP make the referral to paediatrics?

sjb2405 on Tue 14-Apr-09 11:03:20
"i thought it looked obvious that he was on the autistic spectrum but the Paedaetrician said he couldn't be as he doesn't line his cars up??"

what century is this paediatrician living in???

My 23 month old dd lines up cars. She lines up lots of things actually, according to size and colour. She's almost certainly not autistic. She talks in sentences, is potty training, extremely empathetic, interested and curious and plays fairly well alongside other children with some imaginative interaction. But if lining up her cars means she's autistic then clearly I'm missing something. What a strange diagnostic tool.

It sounds like a very difficult situation.

A freind of mine was asked to take her son to a child phsychologist because he finds it hard to fit in in class. He also has an obsession with cars. They said he might be on the autistic spectrum.

Turns out he's not at all. She's quite frustrated with the lack of diagnosis but does say that he's just different and 'a bit weird'. Some kids are.

I think they've chosen to hear (and tell you) what they wanted to hear . Was it a developmental paediatrician or a gp they saw ? ds wasn't especially sociable at that age but certainly understood danger , empathy and played in parallel or very small groups if not interactively. He would have benefitted from a more structured timetable than was on offer , perhaps that sort of environment would help your young relative.

""i thought it looked obvious that he was on the autistic spectrum but the Paedaetrician said he couldn't be as he doesn't line his cars up??""

Autism is dxed by lack of normal development (language, communication, play). Presence of an activity like lining up cars will not in itself indicate autism. My (ASD) DS1 knew all the breeds of cats and dogs by 20 months whereas my NT DS2 did not but guess who is streets with normal development? I know Paeds are not always right but it does sound more like something reported and distorted than something that was actually said.

re:lining up cars - depends on context - doc could have said something sensible along the lines of- he is playing appropriately and imaginatively with cars, not just lining them up, so that's a good sign.

A language delay will have a huge impact on social skills/imaginative play and how this little lad copes at nursery. Sounds like he needs speech therapy (and a check on hearing and his understanding of language).

I don't think a developmental paediatrian could give a diagnosis on one appointment. The child would need to be checked out by audiology, SLT, as well as having play assessed and reports from home and nursery.

Autism can afffect children in lots of different ways. It can affect speech, social skills, imagination and ablity to cope with change. However not all children are affected in the same way. Also many conditions like glue ear can present similarly to autism.

My little boy had problems at nursery. Our paediatrian told us that she thought he was advanced in some areas but lacking in others. It turned out that my son's problem was severe glue ear.

Of course we all think our childrena are ultra intelligent and fanastic. Woe betide anyone who thinks my son is less than perfect!

Reallytired - the glue ear - that's a good experience to share with the OP as i have two friends who's little ones also had trouble playing and socializing with other kids, and it looked like they were ignoring the teachers - turns out they just couldn;t hear them - once gromits were put it, it helped a lot.

My nephew also had an unspecified speech dyspraxia which meant although he could understand perfectly clearly what was being said to him he just could not form the words properly to answer questions or chat to other children - who often just gave up trying to communicate with him. it left him very isolated at nursery - he was given a place at a specialist pre-school and with speech therapy and that did the trick - he is also Gifted and talented - especially with maths.

Glue ear should be looked at but although there's not enough information to go on but would he be able to learn the names of cars and makes if he was not hearing them ? But if the parents don't want to investigate further, there might not be much you can do - but if the nursery want him to have 1-1 help then they will have to face up to things at some point.