DS FREAKING OUT over the slightest thing and I'm losing it. Don't know how to stay calm.

[muffle]

I've posted about his tantrums before but we seem to be entering a new phase. (he's 3.9) For the past week or two he's started fixating on tiny, tiny things and fussing and stropping over them, which escalates into massive screaming tantrums. It's just ridiculous things, like I took the hanky out of the box and it got crumpled and I have to put it back in and take it out again, but it has to be when he's standing in the exact same place as he was standing at the time, so if I take it out at the wrong moment he freaks even more, etc etc.

Whether I try to do what he wants, or say no and try to stop him behaving like that with threats etc (eg if he doesn't stop freaking about a toy I'll take it away) - makes no difference, the strop just gets worse and worse and in some cases can go on for two hours. It's making it really impossible to get stuff done, get out of the house for nursery, get to bed etc. But worst of all I'm getting so stressed and frustrated by it that as soon as he starts, I just feel myself feeling completely overwhelmed. Several times I've ended up screaming - not a tirade of screaming at him, but just putting my head in my hands and going "AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHNNNGGG" because I'm so stressed - and I hate it when I lose it like that. I've shouted at him too and wrestled him into his clothes and suchlike because I'm just sick of negotiating and arguing. Time out, consequences such as taking away toys etc doen't work - he just gets so worked up he doesn't care.

When he's not stropping he's lovely, chatty, enthusiastic, bright and happy and very helpful - he can be absolutely great and of course I love him to bits anyway. I don't know why this happens and what tips him over the edge.

I feel I need to stay calm and caring and somehow humour him out of it but how? And it is normal? He's always had tantrums and then he has a good few months and I think the tantrum stage is over, then it always comes back even worse.

I have him all weekend on my own as DP is away and I'm dreading two full days of this. (He's at nursery today.) Would love some wise words.

I find prevention is best but it does mean that when DD is overtired I ask questions all the time:

Would you like to walk to the bathroom or shall I carry you?
Are you going to turn the tap on or am I?
Are you going to press on the soap dispenser or shall I?
etc

I expect it looks ridiculous from the outside but she is always beyond herself with tiredness after over 8 hours at school.

Thanks, you are all really helping and I am feeling more positive.

Thats a good point about questions but i found that the controlling behaviour came from giving them a choice about everything,as if they have their own way all the time and it becomes a habit.Better to say statements, as asking them gives too much control if its done all the time.

Muffle, I had this. I know exactly what you are talking about and how you are suffering. It's like walking on eggshells waiting for the next rage. DH and I were so tense for two years.

I called Parentline in tears one morning. They were great. And they have a service whereby they can call you weekly to listen to how your past week has been, work out some tactics that might be effective and just generally be supportive. I can't rate them enough. It's wonderful to know that you're not alone. Can I suggest you call them too? It will help you.

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My DS's rages suddenly ended two weeks ago. He is 4 in April. I don't know why he's so much easier to handle now. He still gets angry but it lasts much less time and he responds to reason or threats of toy confiscation.

The only thing I can think might have contributed is that he's sleeping a lot better - he's in our bed for the time being. Obviously this might not be suitable for everyone but he doesn't have nightmares nor does he gnash his teeth in his sleep anymore.

I hope you get something sorted soon. It's hard to describe what it's like living with someone who really appears to be very controlling and will fly off the handle about anything. Even if they are small and only four!

Although my DS2 has ASD his tantrums and my learning how to manage them may have some relevence here

I think when children are tired they can be easily overwhelmed - they are feeling quite complicated things and don't understand that overload.
I found with DS2 that it really really helped him if I imediately stopped 'requiring' anything of him and slowed everything down. So I would lower my voice and stop asking him to do whatever it was but instead just stay silent for a while and then comfort him by expressing his feelings for him.
So if we were trying to get him dressed and he had got fixed on something like which shoes he was wearing instead of trying to reason with him I would just quietly say to him " you are very cross arn't you paglet. Poor paglet is feeling very very angry"
Once he realised that I understood how he was feeling it became easier to move him on. When I could get him calm a big hug would then help reassure him and we could start to move on.

I think the tissue thing is a way of trying to control 'anything' when you are starting to feel like all control is escaping. Because loss of control is very very frightening.
DS2 has OCD symptoms alongside his ASD and this is exactly when and how it manifests itself. When we feel out of control we cling to something that we understand and that we can control.

I am sorry - I know this is sounding poncy but this seems universal with children that get frustrated and anxious. Treating them as if they are actually becoming frightened rather than controlling really does seem to help - just in my experience.

Winky thank you - in fact this morning I was thinking "I wish there was a helpline I could phone", and thinking how stupid that was because he isn't a screaming baby who won't stop crying, and I should be able to handle it. I have always been pretty patient and good at being light-hearted about strops, so it's worried me how much this has started to get to me now. This thread has helped me plan ways to lighten up about it again but still it is great to have that number.

Unfortunately I can't phone them right now because I have a large and complicated delivery coming today that could happen at any time - and I don't want to be on the phone mid-blub when the doorbell rings! - but I will phone them when it's a good time. Thanks, your post means a lot.

muffle - don't ever feel foolish about coping with toddlers. It can be emotionally exhausting - not least if we keep saying to ourselves 'this should be easy'.

However much it looks like a tantrum the truth is as parents it feels as if our child is in distress and that is really hard. Especially as we all have a tendency to blame ourselves !

x-posted pagwatch - thank you as well - this all makes a lot of sense. He gets into a state where he will pounce on anything and everything as needing to be redone, controlled and managed - if we put one thing behind us, he finds another. And by point-blank refusing and getting cross and making him do things, of course I'm not giving him any sense of getting control back.

And they do say that a child who behaves well in public (and mine does too) is a well brought up child. The rage is just contained at home especially for your benefit! Lucky old you.

Nobody believed me when I told them what my DS could be like. My mum and dad saw his behaviour though so I wasn't going mad.

One tactic Parentline suggested to me was when a rage kicks in, just hug him tightly. Sit on the floor, hug and hug and hug and don't let him go. Say things like, "Poor baby. My poor baby. Mummy loves you. It's alright," and even if he's raging, keep on hugging him for as long as you can or until he calms down.

I tried it. It certainly flummoxed my DS and took a bit of wind out of his sails.

Not read the whole thread.

But my dd2 (she is nearly 9 now) was very much as you describe your ds to be. Only difference is that she was the same in nursery, but now behaves at school.

It started when she turned 2, but when at 3, 4 yrs old, i could still do nothing with her, i went to my HV, she told me to use star/reward charts as they wanted to see if there was a pattern to her behaviour, but dd just coloured hers in black so that she could be naughty all the time.

She was worse at weekends, and started putting everything down to tiredness from school. to be honest I hated spending time with her, I would dread school holidays/weekends. i loved her so much and yet she just seemed full of hate. I would go through the motions of washing, dressing, feeding, and take her to school, pick her up from school and watch the clock so that she could go to bed.

Eventually we were sent to see a child psychologist, who asked us to keep a food & behaviour diary for a fortnight, then we went back, and she gave us a meal planner to follow for a fortnight. We saw a big difference straight away. she was alot calmer, still had tantrums, but there were nowhere as severe.

We still have a few bad days now and again.

agree with pagwatch approach

Why does it matter if a child develops a habit about deciding how they do something like how wash their hands or get dressed? Ultimately they are going to be doing these things how they like anyway!

Otherside I see your point but with DS it's not really just about doing things himself or making normal choices eg about what to wear (which I do encourage). It is a desperate panic about tiny, insignificant things that no one would ever normally have to make a choice about (eg exactly how you move an object, exactly where you stand) and he gets terribly upset and anxious. I think as others have said it is an expression of a need for control, but to go with everything he wants just wouldn't be practicable. It is not just his own choices, it involves controlling everyone else too and you would literally be there all day.

Of course if it is impacting on other people then you can't go with it.

And you are the one who sees him so of course you know best if choice is making it worse for your DS.

I know it helps my DD not get to that 'completely distraught over trifling things' stage to give her more choice.

I was more reacting to morning sun's post:
"Thats a good point about questions but i found that the controlling behaviour came from giving them a choice about everything,as if they have their own way all the time and it becomes a habit. Better to say statements, as asking them gives too much control if its done all the time."

Hi!
I didn't mean not giving choices between two different things such as would you like peas or sweetcorn best,I meant asking little ones to do things in the form of a question all the time,such as "Do you want to play out now,Do you want to get ready for bed now,Do you want tea etc,things we need them to do are better as statements,but genuine choices can be questions.
Hope that makes senseif not it may win some sort of prize for longest sentence...

To follow on from morningsun, I remember hearing somewhere that while children need to learn responsibility, when they are young they can't deal with too much (which can come in the form of open-ended questions) as it has a counter-effect in that they have no boundaries - so rather than 'what do you want for tea?' it should be more 'would you like fish fingers or pasta for tea' so you are ultimately maintaining control but giving them a bit of choice.

Then you widen the boundaries as they get older and they grow up feeling more secure than if they have endless choice - which they can't comprehend fully and cope with when young. If that makes sense.

( I think my sentence might have beaten yours in length morningsun )

Well it's all a bit irrelevant to muffle's problem anyway seeing as she knows that offering choice is not going to help her DS.

But my post about offering choice being a way of diffusing or preventing the situation arising with my DD gave very specific examples of 'either or' choices. This is all she can cope with when she's on the verge of 'freaking out of the slighest thing'.

Asking 'do you want to do xxx?' when you've already decided what's going to happen (eg bedtime) isn't choice, is it?

No it isn't but its easy to say it sometimes and give them too much their own way.
I can't express myself today properly it seems but i meant what thebuzz said.

Well, reporting back. Have had another bedtime from hell, but I did manage to stay calm, not scream and genuinely do not feel as upset in myself, though my actions couldn't stave off the strop. I did try all the calm reassurance and hugs etc and also distraction of a real fire in the grate to burn the hankies that have piled up there from our winter colds. That worked well and the strop stopped - but it was just waiting to restart! - he then freaked because he wanted to have the fire again, wanted a bath, didn't want it until he had got out and taken off his clothes in the right order, and so on and so on with pjs, milk, teeth and everything else. In the end I just lay down with him and said I would tell him a story, and he suddenly collapsed with exhaustion and is now asleep (in our bed, which he asked for as DP is away - we'll see if that helps too).

Am now going to phone parentline. Have to say a big thanks to everyone here as I really did manage to detach myself (not be uncaring, just remain loving and calm) and as a result don't feel worked up, or guilty that I yelled. Still need to work on helping poor DS but I will keep trying.

Oh bum. it says parentline is there 24/7, but just phoned and got through to the scottish version, which is closed. Bum bum bum. Does anyone know if/how I can phone the 24/7 parentline?

You are calling on 0808 800 222? I just called and all operators are busy. Keep trying, if you can.

Or email them - it could help to get some stuff off your chest too.

Also, keep a diary of what triggers the rages, what you did in response and the resulting behaviour. You may start to see a pattern emerging.

Muffle, you sound like a great mum who is really working hard to make things better for your child.

I know you must wonder sometimes why your DS seems so unhappy. I did too. I just couldn't fathom this behaviour.

Just one other thing - make sure there are no surprises for him i.e. if you've been out and you're heading home together, tell him what's going to happen next like, "When we get home, I'm going to cook some supper for you. Then it's bathtime and you can have bubbles." etc

muffle hope you are ok and you did really really well.
I don't know what could be wrong if anything but start with the basics,your approach tonight,a sensible routine,reassurance and lots of love and affection just as you are.
Maybe he could be becoming poorly with a virus or chicken pox or something?
Give it a bit of time and if this carries on possibly go to your gp and talk it thru with him/her?

Thanks both. I had to give up on parentline - yes winky I phoned that number, but if you're in scotland you automatically get put through to parentline scotland which is not 24/7 (not even close!) You can't overrride it - tried on my mobile, tried searching for other numbers. Aah scotland is a wonderful place but this kind of thing can be a right PITA.

I can email them but I wanted that chat - and probably blub - about it to someone I don't know, does that make sense? But I did just have a nice phone call from DP too.

Your kind words have also helped and I'm not going under at the moment - am planning stuff for the weekend and feeling OK. I do have a gp appointment next week for DS - he doesn't seem under the weather at all as he's very energetic, but he does have ongoing sore glands after a viral thing a couple of months ago, and that could possibly be a factor (although the timing doesn't coincide exactly).

Is he an only child? No siblings arrived that could have pissed him off?

No - I am TTC and wondered if I could possibly be newly pg and he's somehow sensed it (shows you just how many possibilities I have been pondering! - plus wishful thinking...) - but I'm sure other things (or no reason at all, just a phase) are more likely.