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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

At the end of my tether with my 8 year old

26 replies

Sugarmagnolia · 26/03/2009 08:46

Ok, let me start by saying, as much as i love my daughter I feel we have always had a slightly difficult relationship - it will be very close and loving one minute and a battle the next. But lately it seems to have gotten so much worse and I am just totally despairing about what to do.

The mornings before school are the worst. It will start with something small - like asking her to put her jumper on. She'll argue, I'll ask her to stop arguing about everything, she'll continues to argue until I shout at her. (And if I decide to let the jumper go because it's not important then it will be something else). At this point I usually walk away for a minute to control my temper and then try to just move on to something else. But she won't let it go. She gets herself more and more hysterical until she's literally kicking and screaming and having a tantrum like a toddler. I have tried everything! If I ignore her she follows me around screaming. If I set a timer and give her 10 minutes to calm down it has no effect. If I tell her calmly she has 10 minutes to complete a set of tasks or there will be a punishment and then leave her to it (say, put her shoes on, put her school things in her bag and brush her hair) she inevitably ends up with the punishment. By the time she actually has to get on the school bus we are both so upset I'm not even sure I should send her to school.

I have tried making sure she eats something first thing in case she's just hungry. I have tried getting her to go to bed earlier in case she is tired. I'm pretty sure nothing is bothering her at school. I just don't know what to do anymore.

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Original poster

Sugarmagnolia · 26/03/2009 09:08

also wanted to say, I used to be a regular poster on here. I'v e not been on for ages but I'm really hoping to get a bit of the ol' MN support/advice.

OP posts:

Original poster

Sugarmagnolia · 26/03/2009 10:01

anyone?

OP posts:

madrose · 26/03/2009 10:04

sorry nothing to suggest - but just letting you I am listening and bumping.

Original poster

Sugarmagnolia · 26/03/2009 10:08

thanks - wondering if I've posted in the wrong section. maybe parenting would be better? or is it just that no one here knows me anymore?

OP posts:

quickdrawmcgraw · 26/03/2009 10:10

I hear you! What does she want to do in the mornings? Does she want to stay in bed and sleep some more?
Dd who is also 8 wants to play her DS so I tell her that she can play it after she's dressed, had breakfast and brushed her teeth and hair.
If she doesn't get everything done fast she gets very little time on it and if she starts playing it before she has done everything it automatically gets confiscated for the following morning.

I think you should sit down together and say 'there's a problem with mornings. I need you to get ready but you don't want to. I end up shouting, you get punishments and nobody's happy. We'll both write out what the problem is and solutions and try and come to a compromise that suits us both'

I've found that it works with DD in other situations so it may work for you too?

Original poster

Sugarmagnolia · 26/03/2009 10:29

I think it would be great if she would stay in bed a bit longer as she often seems tired but she's always up by about 7 at the latest. Getting dressed isn't really the problem - she often gets up and gets completely dressed without any prompting from me. If it's not that it can be something else. For example, we used to argue about breakfast. She often said she wasn't hungry in the morning and I would get upset about her going to school with nothing to eat. It would turn into a huge battle. So we finally agreed that if she really didn't want breakfast she would buy toast for her morning snack instead of taking something unhealthy from the house. She was happy to agree to this as it gave her more control. But if she's looking for a fight in the morning she will still insist on taking crisps when she hasn't had breakfast knowing full well that's not ok.

This morning was the same. She wanted to draw but she knew she wasn't ready for school yet - her shoes weren't on, her books and drink and snack weren't in her bag. But instead of doing these things she just stood there stamping her feet, throwing her shoes and screaming that she had done everything I'd asked already so why wouldn't i let her draw!

She knows the rules it's just like some days she finds it impossible to cope - or maybe that's me who's not coping, I don't even know anymore! She is smart and considerate and sociable - teachers and friends all unanimously say she is a delight. And yet sometimes it's like there is just this demon-child in her that she can't control (maybe I should watch the exorcist for tips?).

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LadyGlencoraPalliser · 26/03/2009 10:38

No advice really, but my nine year old was very like you describe last year. She would have a temper tantrum about anything in the morning, although it was usually about her hair, she liked it done a very specific way and would make me redo it two or three times until it was right. If I refused she would go into one.
I talked to her about it and she recognised she had a problem controlling her temper and I explained I was just going to ignore her until she was able to speak calmly. It kind of worked and she hasn't had a tantrum for a few months now.
I think hard as it is, your best strategy is to keep ignoring her no matter how wound up she gets. It will pass. But talk to her about how we all get these out of control feelings but it is up to us to learn to control them, and explain that you know it is not easy to do it, but you will help her. That really worked for me with DD2, because it made her feel grown up and that I understood and was on her side.

Original poster

Sugarmagnolia · 26/03/2009 10:51

I suppose that really is the heart of the matter - her controlling her temper...and me controlling mine. I know I have not always been good at controlling my temper - I used to shout and scream quite badly from time to time. These days I think I am getting better at it - I might shout once then force myself to calm down and stay calm even if it feels like an effort. When one of my kids says ?stop shouting mummy? I actually try to listen to them. But I've obviously taught her some very bad habits and now I don't know how to help her. She gets so angry and worry that it's all my fault.

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Kammy · 26/03/2009 11:29

I'm sure it's not your fault. I suspect lots of kids (girls in particular?) are like this around this age. My niece certainly was! She seemed to want to pick an argument about everything in the mornings from what she wanted for breakfast to brushing her teeth. Mystrategy was to sit down with her when she was calm and explain that I was no longer going to argue with her about 'everyday' things. She would be asked once, if she didn't brush her teeth/hair/get a jumper/whatever, that was it - no more reminders and she could just go to school with unbrushed hair or hungry.

For a while she did follow me round trying to provoke an argument, but over time it worked.It's pretty hard to keep arguing with someone who walks away (then screams into a pillow!) Admittedly I don't have her all the time, but enough to sympathise.

t875 · 26/03/2009 12:15

have you tried a reward chart with her or something like that, confiscated her favourite toy, banned tv etc.. will she sit in time out? or even maybe find somewhere where she can make a haven for herself and to go to when she starts to feel angry etc..this has worked for my daughter along with the reward chart.

When you ignore her let her follow you and try hard not to get bothered by it, (although i know that isnt east, been there myself) i'm sure that will calm that down very fast though.

Is there anything on her mind, is she ok at school?

I have an 8 year old and we go through this from time to time lately and i know it does drive you up the wall, i also have a 4 year old and its double sometimes. lol.

All the best and hope this phase passes soon.

thedolly · 26/03/2009 12:53

What are bedtimes like? Are they calm? Does she go to bed at the same time each night? Any siblings?

FAQinglovely · 26/03/2009 12:56

there's some fabulous tips (not directly related to your issues wtih your DD - but aimed at this age) on my thread here (if you can bear to dredge through the irrelvant bits LOL)

Original poster

Sugarmagnolia · 26/03/2009 14:02

She goes to bed with no trouble whatsoever - usually around 8pm, sometimes a bit earlier or later. She can have tantrums at other times of day but mornings are definitely the worst. She says she loves school and nothing is bothering her. The school also back this up -they say she seems happy, engaged, sociable, works hard, enthusiastic etc, etc.

I've also got a DS who's 5 - he can be cheeky at times but arguments with him always just seem to blow over in a matter of minutes whereas with her they seem to just build and build and build. I feel bad for him as when this is going on he just sits quietly eating his breakfast and trying not to upset either of us any more.

I know that ignoring the tantrums is good advice but the truth is I find this really impossible. I have tried suggesting she sit in her room to calm down but she just stands there and screams that she is calm! Sometimes I just have to laugh at how ludicrous her behaviour can get. Am tempted to video it and let her see what's going on.

I also had an idea I posted under parenting about creating some different coloured cards for different behaviours and then using these to help her realise how she's behaving without getting caught up in an argument of words. Like one could say ?Listening/cooperating?, another could say ?arguing/ignoring? and a third could say ?shouting/having trouble calming down?. Maybe she could even write some for me.

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thedolly · 27/03/2009 09:13

Does your DD go to bed at the same time as your DS? If so, could you treat DD in a more grown up way by letting her have half an hour 'special time' before she goes to bed but after DS has already gone? I know it sounds counter intuitive but she may reward you with some more grown up behaviour in the morning.

Good luck .

bloss · 27/03/2009 09:29

Message withdrawn

Original poster

Sugarmagnolia · 27/03/2009 13:53

thedolly - great idea but we've already done that! Even though she seems to need more sleep than him it was so important to her to be treated as more 'grown up' that we eventually agreed to this. They used to go to bed at the same time but now she is allowed another 15-30 minutes. If her behaviour isn't good during the day she loses that.

she liked the idea of the cards - especially getting to write some to give to me! We used them this morning and she got all the way up to the red card (shouting & screaming) BUT.... then she did manage to calm down so I wrote a new card with a smiley face for calming down. She liked that.

OP posts:

RumourOfAHurricane · 27/03/2009 16:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

bloss · 27/03/2009 19:16

Message withdrawn

Aefondkiss · 27/03/2009 19:37

Hello, I struggle with my dd in the morning sometimes, but I do talk to her about how frustrating it can be in the morning when she wants to play but not get dressed, nor eat breakfast etc.

Lately, I have been really praising her for the good stuff and shuffling through the not so good bits, i.e ignoring but not arguing at any point - still get frustrated but it seems to have improved. I state what needs to be done i.e she needs to get dressed if she wants time to play... it isn't up for discussion. Repeat ad infinitum, punishments don't seem to work.

joburg · 28/03/2009 13:15

I second the idea of a reward chart. It's not about punishing the kid for the bad behaviour, but rewarding him/her for the good one. Set a chart. If she does what she is supposed to and do it let's say 5 days in a raw she will get that new pair of trousers you bought her already. If she missbehaves, she will not be punished, but rather ignored and then of course, the reward will have to be postponed one more day .... According to age you can set different rules. Doing it daily might be a bit too hard work for both of you, but you could also set some rewards at the end of each day for good behaviour, if you can handle a set of tantrums for a while

purepurple · 28/03/2009 13:25

buttons, buttons, buttons!!!

this is all about knowing which buttons to press to get all the attention

you will need to step back from it and let her handle it on her own

you say it starts with a simple request like putting her jumper on

why does an 8 year old need telling to put her jumper on?

leave her to get ready, give her some independence and she will step up to it

if she doesn't put her jumper on, so what?
what's the worst that could happen?
She might get cold, or told off by the teacher. But she will have learnt that certain behaviour has consequences
my tip would be to not try to win every battle, walk away and let her see that it doesn't really bother you if she wears a jumper or not.

Is she behaving like a toddler because that's how you treat her and therefore that's how you expect her to behave?

Just a thought.

Earlybird · 28/03/2009 13:39

I have an 8 year old dd too. Sometimes she is provocative, and sometimes I 'take the bait'. I have found that the best thing is simply 'do not engage' with her unreasonable behaviour. If I engage/react, everything escalates. If she does/says something designed for a reaction, I don't react.

That seems to work best around our house. That and praising her to the skies and back for the smallest improvement. She wants my attention and affection - and we both would rather I give her positive attention. So I really go overboard with the encouragement when she is helpful/responsible/thoughtful etc.

UsuallySpinning · 01/04/2009 13:55

good advice here. i have a nearly 8 year old DD and she is driving us mad. purepurple's post really helped. thanks.

MorocconOil · 01/04/2009 14:13

My DS who is 9 can behave like this especially in the mornings. It drives me insane. The other morning I made him sit outside on the back step because he was driving me up the wall. He soon calmed down, and was actually grateful to be given some breakfast. He usually makes a big fuss, constantly changing his mind.

I wonder if 9 is a significant development stage. Hormonally there's probably quite a bit happening to them physically. Emotionally they are probably wanting a lot more independence and autonomy, but also feel ambivalent about growing up.

We had parents evening last night and DS's teacher explained that the work is alot harder in Year 4 than Y3. Perhaps your DD is finding the work harder? I know my DS is and perhaps this is an explanation for challenging behaviour before school in the mornings.

MorocconOil · 01/04/2009 14:15

Sorry forgot you'd said she was 8. She may still be in Year 4 though if nearly 9.

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