My 4 yr old DS cannot play with others, just feel a rubbish Mum

[toughtime]

DS is just 4. He is pretty shy, even at home with us and his baby brother. However, he does have periods of chatting away happily.

I have long worried about his lack of social skills. From what I can gather, at pre-school he is 'amongst' children but I'm not sure how much interaction he actually does. If it's anything like toddler group, he will play alongside but will just ignore the other children unless I say 'DS, ask x if you can have a go on that'- he then will! I now hate playdates with him as if they're at our house, he will be incredibly excited about it and welcome them quite well, demand that they both have a snack and then proceed to ignore the other child for the rest of the time. He will not even play alongside but bring me stories to read or jump on sofas or lie on the floor and resist most attempts to get the play going. I accept that if I said 'hey DS and friend, let's decorate some cakes' or 'do some painting' I could get him off the sofa but I don't think many people have to do this every 1.5 hr playdate, just want him to play with his cars or something! He just behaves miserably and will sometimes say 'x, are you going yet?'

The result of this is that I can't help getting cross with DS after the playdate and I barage him with, why didn't you play with x? etc etc. I really do lay into him and the root of it is I'm worried he'll end up being very unpopular. Are my expectations just too high or should I rightly be concerned that his play and social skills are so poor? He doesn't really do any imaginative play. He has seen a development paed twice after I went to the GP with concerns but he is basically saying he doesn't think DS is ASD or anything.

Sometimes children need help to learn how to play with others, parralel play is far easier and earlier stage of development as for the sitting on your lap maybe he just feels intimidated and that wants reassurance you are special to him and vice versa

could you try making games next time e.g. get out cars and garage say loudly whilst you play "My car is going up the ramp" Ds "can your car go up the ramp" friends name "I bet your car can go up the ramp"

Turn it on its head...you dress up and make a den and then sit in it with his playmate. Let him watch you play
That is the simplified version of what I advise professionally

Ds' good friend is like that but it doesn't bother ds in the slightest, he still likes playing (alongside) him . Ds bosses him around, his friend does his own thing, they're both happy. And your ds is only young and the skills of empathy and seeing the 'rewards' for being social will come later - probably through school.

And I don't mean for this to be sweepingly sexist, but from what I've observed from from dcs and their friends is that boys tend to be like this longer than girls, unless maybe it's a pfb thing? My ds has learnt quite a bit about playing with others from his younger sister.

I have no expertise at all but your ds doesn't sound particularly unusual to me. My ds1 is almost 4 and of appoximately 10 children that he plays with regularly 2 behave in a very similar way to your description of your ds. I think it's not so uncommon at this age and as an outsider it seems clear to me that different children are developing different skills at differnt rates, though I'm sure that in your shoes I would be equally concerned.

hobbgoblin, it's probably part of the problem but I don't really enjoy this kind of imaginative play with children either! I don't have great imagination! I like doing lots of things with DS but not imaginative play- poor DS! Having said that I do try but tbh when DS has a 'friend' over, I would like to spend part of that 1-2hrs talking to his friends mum.
Oops- I think I have read some of your threads in the archives and I seem to remember some similarities in our DS'. I do try to not lay into him but a lot of his behaviours come across as rude and it makes me feel like a rubbish Mum and in turn, angry with him .

I agree that you playing with the friend does work!
Sometimes you have to unite them by being silly or chasing them etc
enjoy it for now, no doubt he'll find his feet soon

ohh, it's worrying, being in the archives.

Ds1 is really really changing but it has taken years for me to stop worrying about him

He's had an autism assessment too- but they just said he was veru bright and very immature... so he comes across as being ok when with adults, but he relates to kids differently.

he's getting there wrt playing with other kids.
I can't say it has been easy, but i've let him take the lead and decide whihc kids to invite.
We went through a good 2-3 months when we didn't invite anyone.
And then one day he asked to invte somebody i'd never have thought of. she's lovely and they do seem to get on at school.

So, chill for now- let him live his life without the hassle of the other kids at home if he doesn;t want them there.
He sees enough of them at school.

I do understand, though, as you well know.

Yes, DS enjoys non-verbal silly and chasing play and hence is quite good with 2 to 2.5 yr olds! It is worrying though, he is not a Power Rangers/ Ben 10 etc kind of boy at all. He enjoys having new toys so I suppose he can play but not for long even on his own. This is pretty wearing. He loves things such a typing his name or numbers on the computer, playing board games etc which aren't exactly popular with the average boy his age!

I wouldn't worry-they all take their own time. My DS2 used to be like that but luckily DS3 would always play with them! DS2 is a perfectly sociable teenager now-in fact he is far more sociable than DS3.

toughtime- ds1 doesn't do ben 10 or pawer rangers even now.
and all of the other boys do.

but he can read and write and is very bright- he likes ot play with calculators and do adding up alot.
and he loves board games and skittle games/marble runs etc.

maybe he can play with your ds.... but they'd probably disappear off to differnet corners of the house

Recnetly, he has a cuddly toy that he is obsessed with and has been doing all sorts of nurturing and imaginary stuff with it.

It seems to me that emotioanly he is on the same level as ds2 who is 2 yrs younger.
they play together and do little boy imaginary stuff.

and then ds1 disappears off and starts reading on his bed.
he'll be fine

Oops- my DS is also bright but incredibly immature. We still get baby babble at bath time sometimes. I have thought of stopping playdates but he never says he doesn't want to see x or y and is so excited beforehand. I admire you in letting DS take the lead and lovely he is making his own friends.

DD is 4 this summer and very shy. We ahve regular playdates with people she knows well. Even so, it routinely takes an hour for her to unpeel herself from me and actually play - and if the play is a bit too rough she will opt out. Short playdates are consequently pretty stressful - I don't feel it's worth the effort if it's less than about 3 hours. Does he just need more time to settle into it?

I know she loves being with other children - especialy just one other at a time. It's not always obvious though.

Also, I'm finding that since about 3, they really are starting to prefer some friends over others (and some kinds of play) and you can't just expect them to play with your friends' kids (unfortunately).

I have DS who is 5 who didn't really play much with others at that age. He isn't into Power Rangers or Ben10 etc either - I don't think not being interested in them is a bad thing.

He plays more with others now.

DD is 3.5 and generally at the playing alongside stage, although she is getting better at starting to play with. She and I went to play with another girl of the same age on Monday and the two of them needed someone else to direct their play most of the time. I imagine when she is 4 she will be pretty similar still.

Ds (4) is very sociable but he will either parallel play or ignore children he doesn't know well and play together with friends he knows well. Ds only knows about Power Rangers and Ben 10 from other boys at school. He likes puzzles and board games. Your ds doesn't sound that different to mine.

I would try not to have a go at him for not doing what you expect on a playdate. If that were my ds I know he would be even worse the next time, deliberately to annoy me!

A few of ds's friends don't do imaginative play at all. I sometimes wish ds didn't have such an overactive imagination. He told another parent today that he had burnt his finger (he hadn't he'd scraped it along a wall at school).

Instead I would try and relax and keep on with the playdates and not have a go at your ds if they don't go exactly how you wish.

Oh marble runs, he loves them too! Yes it sounds like they'd get on, well for 5 minutes anyway! Sounds good with the imaginary toy. The only time we get imaginary stuff is when he has copied someone from an recent playdate. DS just bosses DS2 around which I think is just playing out some of the anger I project onto him . Wish I could just accept who he is but want to help him fit in I guess.

don't be cross. please.

Enjoy him for who he is.

My ds1 is so beautiful he takes my breath away some days.
he's quirky and funny and tells rubbish jokes.
He really wants to know what happens when the numbers run out- to the point of starting to count one morning and saying he'd stop when the numebrs ran out
he didn't get too far before he wanted something else.

he's funny and strange and bit geeky.
he doesn't play football, doesn't play ben10 or any of the fighting stuff.

He's differnt but he's not wrong to be different.
i really wish he had another friend more like him, but then a kid more like him may well be not the best ting anyway-

He's who he is and you need to just enjoy him. It won't be doing im any good if he feels he's failing you in some way.

How many friends do you have, or your DH?
I have tons of maes, and a few clasoe friends. Dh has a few close friends and that's about it- but he's happy and doesn't need to be chatting all the time and going out.
i think my ds1 os like dh, who isn't that bothered about haveing alot of friends, but can conduct himself perfectly in a group.

let him grow at his own pace and maybe meet kids out at the [park or doing an activity vs just bringing them home after school.. maybe that will help break the ice a bit

I agree with oopsagain-it isn't something to force or make him feel that he isn't doing what is expected. He is very, very little -some children take a long time to start playing with others instead of along side.

Oops and pisces- you are ABSOLUTELY right, I totally agree. I just find it hard to watch at times. I can see some of the little ones at DS' pre-school blossoming and finding friends and just wish DS had the confidence and desire to do that. Am going to have to be much stronger.

Hi toughtime,

I am new on here, and have been worried about my DD who is 4 and started school full time in January. At parent's evening the teacher expressed concern that she doesn't interact with any of the children in her class - although she does enjoy playing with the children in older years - y3 upwards and the little boys at her childminders. She loves drawing and is very extremely talented at drawing and painting.

I am hoping that she will get better at being friends as she gets older - as she just doesn't seem interested at the moment. She is also not good at talking to any of the parents of her class mates - we were at a party recently and she wouldn't respond at all to the party mum which I found a bit embarrassing (ashamed to say).

My worry is that the teacher thinks she may have some ASD symptoms, but I am really hopeful she will make friends in her own time.

he is sooooo tiny...just four!

and if it helps, i think you are wrong to assume that 'most' parents dont have to facilitate play 'tween their just four yr olds.

lots of four yr olds need help...either to share,stop fighting,take turns choosing what to play,both play in same space etc

the really good sociable things about your son are that he wants friends over (and they want to come)he wants to have a snack (pretty sociable in my book)

i'd go for decorating cakes/ painting etc and accept that that is what works for your boy...it wont be like this forever!

Oh thank goodness I found this! I am sat here with tears in my eyes as I am in a very similar position with my DS who will be 4 in June.

He is almost exactly the same as your DS. At playschool he plays alongside other kids but if a little boy comes up to him and says "Hello xxxx, would you like to play with me?" My DS replies with "er, no thank you" and walks off the other way!! He doesn't seem to know what to do with them if you know what I mean?

He has an older sister who is 6 and loves chasing, laughing with her, playing on swings, slides etc but try and get them to play quietly together and use some imaginative play and he just doesn't want to know. He plays OK on his own for a little bit and talks to himself etc so am not that worried but it does frustrate my DD! He is basically a follower/copier and not an instigator. He also uses words/scenarios he has heard off TV or from playing with DD to use in his own play other than use his own imagination.

I am actually 99% sure I am going to defer him from school in Sept as I think he needs more time in a familiar comfy setting to mature a bit more before starting school.

I, like you, am just hoping he is a taking his time developing his social side and reading this has really given me hope, thank you for your post,xxx

Sorry, I should have said that he is being referred to the hosp to be evaluated on not finding it easy to talk to adults without hiding his face or replying with a silly voice/noise or simply shouting NO at them amongst other things. Because he is quite a boistrous lad people automatically assume he isn't shy which is completely wrong! Thats hard to explain and it also shows up at playschool when he has hurt someone, probably down to just feeling uncomfortable or shy when put in a situation he didn't know how to respond to. Does that make sense??!! LOL!!

I think 4 is pretty small. My son's 4 and his teacher complained about him not concentrating on his worksheets and just wanting to play with cars . Fgs he's only a tiny tot - imo lots of them need more time than 4 years to develop social skills and concentration.

oh toughtime, i know.
it hs broken my heart over the years.
He doesn't really get thought about by other kids so the party invties are few and far between now. They used to be whole class invtes, now the kids have smaller parties with a few best mates.

He thinks his best mates are a couple of girls at school, but i'm not sure how much they view him as their friend tbh..

But over time he has changed and he has become much much more inaginative. he is on the same level as his 3yr old brother- but that's some "progress".
He seems to develop in a linear way- one it at a time.

he used o be very sensitive to noise and light and particularly touch. This also seems to be changing and he allows me to hug him somtimes too

patience, patience, enjoy him for who he is now. let him develop in his own time and don't set him unrealistic goals.