should i be worried? i'd really like to chat to a CHILD PSYCHOLOGIST or professional person with exp of sexual abuse

[schmu]

my 4.5 yo dd is very happy, intelligent and doing really well at school. she comes from a loving home and is a real character- she always has a cheeky glint in her eye.

today, though i am suddenly worried. she is a bit obsessed with her genitals eg her and her sis find it hilarious to look at each others' if left alone in the bath for a moment ( all pretty normal) and she is a bit obssessed with playing Drs and nusers in a rather intimate way when friends come to play (have tried to encourage a less hands on approach without making it taboo).

she sometimes can be very silly when getting dressed. bending over to reveal all then shreiking with laughter.

i had never worried until today, when she and her 7yo sis were talking in the car and her big sis initiated a conversation about teenagers kissing.

suddenly my 4 yo dd, amid shrieks of laughter, brought genitals into the conversation. i am now worried about the content of what she said(will elaborate later). i am thinking sexualised talk = big cause for concern.

...so when is this normal developmental stuff, and when is it cause for concern??

dh is adamant that i need to question dd, but i want to approach this in the right way.

anyone out there who can help?

my niece is just 6 and she is doing the same thing at the moment.
I do worry that she knows a little more than she should, and question quite how she knows this much, she has been very "knowledgable" since bieng very little.
I will be watching this thread with interest.

What did she say? Everything else you've described sounds perfectly normal for a curious 4/5 yr old.

deany, my dd often plays with her 7 yo sis and her friends at school. one girl in particular is quite streetwise. so this could account for some of the precocious knowledge of boyfriend/ girlfriend stuff.

the convo went something like this:

-i saw teenagers kissing once...

....were they naked?(older sis)

...did she open up her noony (4yo)(nb she awlays talks about opening up noony in bath with sis...you show me yours, i'll show mine)

....did he get his willy and spray her...

i queried the 'spray' thing straight away. she said...was he desperate for a wee and accidentally sprayed her with wee.

sounds quite normal to me.
don't worry!

Wouldn't set alarm bells ringing with me at al, but you know your child best. Just go easy on her if you do 'question' her.

but why would the convo lead from kissing to genitals?? she's 4.

Because it's all taboo, 'funny', naughty stuff to her, maybe? She is obviously aware of her own body and is exploring with her sister to some extent. Maybe your 7 yr old knows a bit more than she's letting on?

I'm just guessing here. All I'm saying is that this wouldn't have me thinking 'abuse', but like I said, you know your own child best and should follow your gut.

i thougth you'd all be deeply worried.

i just went up and talked to her and asked her tell me more about the willy spraying thing. asked if she'd ever seen it happen.

she invented a story about a man and a woman in the street who loved each other and their clothes fell off. he was playing ith his willy and needed a wee and sprayed her.

i am now more worried.

Have you told your DDs anything about sex? Maybe a child at school is more clued up and has filled her in.

mrsM, she is so happy and carefree that i cant imagine she is being abused, but the sexualised language has worried me, tbh.

but i agree, that it could be my 7yo at the root of this. i'd be MUCH more concerned if she wasnt at school...school playgrounds are a minefield.

also, my mum has a couple of ale lodgers who i dont know well so my imagination is doing over time...

I wouldn't be that suprised that a primary school child knows that adults who love each kiss - and this might lead to sex, genitals are involved etc.

funnily enough, i was thinking the other day about when is the average age to explain HOW the sperm meets the egg, and was wondering whether to braoch it with dd1.

perhaps i need to speak to dd1.

willow, would you expect a reception (4yo) child to know that. really??

A 4yo with an older sibling. An older child could well have explained things to her, and got some things mixed up (like spraying wee, she's probably aware or has seen boys weeing from their willies.)

I used to nanny for a 4yo who had the book "Mummy Laid An Egg". He was well aware of how babies are made!

so what dyou think of my post at 17.34? really nothing to worry about?

my Ds was in reception when i got pregnant with DD, and we did a bit of a sex ed talk, without too much detail. and got the 'mummy laid an egg' book. chidlren with older siblings will also pick up different words and attitudes
and anything to do with bums and willies at that age is hilarious.

i really think you have nothing to worrry about in terms of abuse,. and questioning your DD could lead to more trouble

but you know your daughter best, but to me it sounds like normal childs' talk

Wouldn't worry. Sounds well within normal.

Often it's sexualised language or behaviour directed not at other children, but at adults, which should set alarm bells ringing. What you're describing is all between her and other kids and afaik 100% of kids talk about this stuff/and most experiment if they can get the opportunity!

I really think this is playground stuff and I wouldn't worry at all.

It's pretty impossible to say whether you should worry or not through a message board - I think people are just saying it's not necessarily something inappropriate and could be quite innocent. You know your daughter better than anyone though.

This seems totally normal. And it was the older sib who brought nudity into it, right? Not that big of a leap from 'naked' to talking about genitals.

Talking about men weeing on women is the sort of "sexual" thing a little kid would make up. (Actually, my DS2 (4) has definately weed on other boys.)

i just meant nothing to worry out in terms of getting your perspective on how sexualised / normal the content of what she said actaully was. of course you can't say for sure

ds2 is 4 and has spent large parts of yesterday and today talking about vaginas (very loudly ) and willies and people kissing etc.etc...

He's got a 7 year old brother and in year one these days (when they're 5/6) they have lessons on biological terms - hence the word vagina being used, usually in Tescos - as well as other words.

The boys currently think if you kiss someone you must be in love with them, which is very sweet - they think David Tennant and Davina Carroll must be in love following their kiss on Comic Relief for example.

Honestly, at the moment, if the conversation isn't about Star Wars it's about kissing/willies/vaginas etc.

Ds1 knows more about the technical how to make a baby stuff, (from me and dp when he asked fairly recently) but doesn't generally refer to this - ds2 hasn't got a clue but having an older brother has more of a clue of other stuff than ds1 did at his age.

From your posts, there's nothing that stands out as very worrying to me - just normal 4 - 7 year old conversations.

good point, notquite, dd1 did bring the nudity into it.

Also, willies at this point are brilliant spraying things - like little handy hosepipes...

well, as usual MN has managed to talk a lot of sense. will listen carefully to dd2 but wont put words into her mouth. thanks all x