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Behaviour/development

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Original poster

Slightly freaked - barely 9-year-old girl made sexual overtures to 9-year-old dd

34 replies

AbbyLubber · 18/02/2009 08:41

Maybe this is an AIBU topic, really, but at a recent sleepover one of the girls (they are all young-9, just 9 and definitely pre-pubescent) in the middle of Truth or Dare dared dd to snog her, and graphically described sex between another 9-year-old boy and girl.

I test liberal-libertarian on the Political Compass, but I'm slightly freaked by this, as was dd, who is now refusing to play with said girl and found it all much too much. It's not the lesbian thing that worries me, because I think this is utterly normal at this age, more the fact that dd is worried by the overt sexuality herself. This girl, the one who made the overture, has been the target of some homophobic teasing, however - not emanating from my dd, but from others.

Thing is, should I tell the other girl's mother? We know the family quite well and the elder brother has a bit of an internet porn habit - is this relevant? I know his sister has sometimes viewed porn with him - not sure if her parents also know this. Or should I butt out and say kids will be kids, just modern docs and nurses? Honestly not sure. Love to have some advice on this.

OP posts:

RaspberryBlower · 18/02/2009 08:47

I think I would be inclined to speak to the mother about it. How old is the brother? He shouldn't be showing a 9 year old porn. I would tell the parents about this as well.

TsarChasm · 18/02/2009 08:50

Gosh that would shock and upset me too Yes I would mention it to her mum. I'm not sure how you'd mention it though; but I think it needs to be. This doesn't sound right at all.

How do you know she's been watching porn with her brother?

It seems some grow up faster than others, but 9?! Mind you, I've said similar on here before and been shouted down that's it's all fine and to get with the times, admittedly about milder things than that, but even so, I remain to be convinced

giraffescantdancethetango · 18/02/2009 08:51

I 9 year old viewing porn is definetly not ok, and can be classes as sexual abuse in the sence of allowing/foring a child to watch inapropriate material.

Was it that she walked in accidently caught a glimpse and it was off or that shes actually watched it with him?

I definetly think it needs to be mentioned. Hope your dd is ok, were you there at the time or did she come and tell you?

RaspberryBlower · 18/02/2009 08:51

I meant to say I agree about the kissing and sexuality stuff being normal, but it's the graphic descriptions that are a bit worrying. It obviously disturbed your dd for her to tell you anyway. Well done for having that kind of relationship with your dd btw.

Bluesapphire77 · 18/02/2009 08:54

Lesbian thing?

You are talking about 8 and 9 year olds here, not trying to play down the seriousness of this but they are babies.. kids..

Mention it to the other mum but keep it factual and don't imply that you feel its dirty/ect when talking to the kids. They are testing the water. Its a definate 'modern doctors and nurses' as you put it.

There was a post on here not long ago which involved actual touching and not innocent touching/questioning/play acting, this situation is different and if handled well, should be a good learning experience.

BUT

IMVHO...The brother (however old he is) should not be showing a child that age porn, it is bordering on sexual abuse/grooming behaviour. This is just my opinion.

Hulababy · 18/02/2009 08:54

Yes, you must say something to the parents. A 9 year old should not be seeing porn. How old is her brother? He needs to be spoken to by his parents also.

However difficult I think you need to go and see thos parents.

Bluesapphire77 · 18/02/2009 08:56

x=posted with giraffe lol thank god someone agrees with me about the porn being sexually abusive

giraffescantdancethetango · 18/02/2009 08:56

Blue saphire, your opinion is correct from a CP point of view - was doing this last week and its a definite CP flag. (childline training)

Coldtits · 18/02/2009 09:01

I was quite capab;e of graphically describing the sexual act at nine - I had had sex education!

HecateQueenOfGhosts · 18/02/2009 09:05

It made your daughter uncomfortable, it was inappropriate, it is something that the parents need to know happened.

As to the porn, watching it with her elder brother - WHAT THE FUCK?? I hope it is that she has snuck up behind him, rather than him sitting her down to watch it. My fear -if he is intentionally getting her to watch porn - would be that he is grooming her.

It could also be that he is frightfully immature and displaying a massive lack of common sense, and probably is. But the risk of it being something worse, means it needs addressing.

MrsMattie · 18/02/2009 09:07

OK, two things:

Exploring is normal at that age, but not if your DD is uncomfortable about it. If one child is forcing another child into doing something they're uncomfortable with, that's not right.
Main thing that worries me - the older brother has a 'an internet porn habit'. How do you know this? This seems worrying to me. Is his little sister exposed to this? Are other children visiting the house exposed? I would be very unhappy about this and would definitely say something to the parents.

Original poster

AbbyLubber · 18/02/2009 10:12

Thanks so much. You've all raised some really important issues which I hadn't considered enough, I now see. In a way, I'm relieved that it's ok to be freaked. In another way, I'm now even more freaked.

Answering some qns: the 9-year-old talks incessantly about her brother's porn habit, and my ds who is the brother's age - 14 - and goes to the same school as the brother confirmed that he does this and also that he talks about sex a lot. Think the little girl has actually been shown porn by him more than once, but I only have her third-hand word for this, though taken together with the sexual approach to my dd it sounds believable.

I have no idea what to say to the other mother, however. She is very liberal and tends to respond to anything with the view that kids must solve their own problems... All advice welocme!

In the short term I think I will not let dd go to their house again till I've talked to the parents. Am utterly freaked by the idea of grooming...

OP posts:

izyboy · 18/02/2009 10:24

Yeah I agree dont let her go there. You could say to the mum that her DD is being 'teased' because of her knowledge and that the DS is similarly thought of as 'odd' im his age group and that this has come to your attention from several sources. You are letting her know for the sake of her kids. See if this galvanises her into acting.

Smee · 18/02/2009 10:42

Really hope talking to the mother goes well Abby. You're right, you absolutely have to. And actually there are some positives here, as it gives you a good way in to talking to your son about the internet/ porn/ sex and find out how he's coping amidst the weird mash of being a teenage boy. Sounds like you've got a great relationship with both of your two though. They obviously feel confident and secure enough to tell you these things, so even though it's a far from pleasant situation, I think you should feel a bit chuffed .

letswiggle · 18/02/2009 10:43

I'd tell her that you've heard the talk in the playground is that her son watches a lot of porn and shows it to his sister. You're telling her because you wouldn't like it if your dd watched porn so you are telling her because you assume she doesn't want hers to either.

Smee · 18/02/2009 10:49

letswiggle, for what it's worth I disagree. I think Abby has to tell the mother that the girl says she's seen it (is that what you mean Abby, can't quite work it out?!). It's far more easily brushed aside if it's pure rumour, and actually as the mother, I'd take far more notice of something you've got concrete grounds to talk to me about rather than a rumour from the playground. If the mother's got any sense, which it sounds like she has, she'll be grateful for having it pointed out to her.

NorthernLurker · 18/02/2009 10:55

I would also be inclined to concentrate on the porn issue. Just tell her that you have heard her son is showing her daughter internet porn and see what she says. If she doesn't seem able to react though I would also tell the school because an older child should not be showing a 9 year old porn and this may be a child protection issue. Of course we don't know that he has actually done this - it could all be bravado on her part - but her behaviour sadly suggests otherwise.

Original poster

AbbyLubber · 18/02/2009 10:56

Sorry for poor expression, Smee - yes, the girl says she's seen it and has told dd more than once about it.

OP posts:

Smee · 18/02/2009 10:58

Well then your instinct is right, you absolutely have to tell the mother asap. Hope it goes well. Fingers crossed for you.

onebatmother · 18/02/2009 10:58

I think you have to assume that the other mother would not want or allow her daughter to watch porn, and tell her immediately.

If she makes 'ah well, what can I do?' or, 'oh well, it's normal' noises, you need to be brave and tell her that an adult allowing a child to view porn is classed as sexual abuse.

You really must do this. Porn - and btw have you any idea what's out there these days? - is already damaging this child. She doesn't know it, but you are an adult and do.

Original poster

AbbyLubber · 18/02/2009 11:12

Thanks. Will act and report. Huge thanks for all this support.

OP posts:

Gorionine · 18/02/2009 11:16

Abby, i agree with all the posters who have suggesetd to talk t the mother, especially if the girl has told you herself that more than once that it happens. One thing does surprise me a lot though the fact that a 9 years old told you (an adult) about it. How did she come to tell you about it? casually or in a "I am worried because my brother makes me watch things I do not want to" way?

Your posts seem to suggest she thinks there is nothing wrong with it and it does concern me a bit, is there a remote possibility that the parents already know about it and think it is ok?.

Original poster

AbbyLubber · 18/02/2009 11:25

She told my dd, not me. In a way this is why I worry about approaching the mother.

And yes, I think there is every chance they know and think it's ok, or alternatively will dismiss it as playground gossip. Hence the quaking factor.

Dd isn't 100 percent reliable, of course, as she is 9, but she does seem truly bothered; she used to like this girl a lot and now doesn't want to have anything to do wiht her. I had another talk with her this morning and she told me that at the same sleepover the other girl insisted on sending her textmessages on a Nintendo - not hers, so I can't check (she doesn't own a DS) - about having sex with the brother.... Think something must be badly wrong here if any of this is true.

OP posts:

solidgoldbullet4myvalentine · 18/02/2009 11:36

This does sound as though the brother is behaving in an inappropriate way towards the 9 year old. Muddled explorations and misunderstandings of sexual behaviour are not in themselves anything to worry about at this age but the fact that it made your DD so uncomfortable suggests that there was something unhealthy about it in this case. Initially I was wondering if the girl had seen porn by sneaking into her brother's room hunting for it (or hunting for secrets/being nosy: kids often do this. I know I read some eye-popping books in my parents collection without their knowledge at around that age) but it does sound more dangerous than that.

LauriefairycakeeatsCupid · 18/02/2009 11:40

She is being sexually abused by seeing those images. If you can bring it to the parents attention fine, if not consider telling the school or maybe social services.

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