What do you expect your just 3 year old to be able to do?

[milkybarsrus]

When I picked DS up from nursery yesterday, they said that now he is 3 (will be 3 this sunday) we expect him to be able to put on his shoes and coat and hat etc, and take himself off to the toilet. I am very happy with the nursery he goes to, but its opened my eyes to the fact that he is still babyish for example, still wears a bib, makes huge mess when eating, doesn't attempt to dress himself, still in nappies, only just got rid of the dreaded dummy, still drinks out of a trainer cup! Some of those things are for my sanity as he is a pickle to say the least and would be forever knocking over food and drinks just to see what mess he makes! He screams getting into the bath, screams getting out of bath! the list goes on and on... so what behaviour do you expect from your 3 year old please? how how do you achieve it?

tbh it doesn't sound a very good nursery if they expect all 3 year olds to be potty trained.
My ds was toilet trained about about 3 and a half
There is no point in pushing them to do it when they aren't ready
Surely the staff know that each child is individual?
I'd have a word with the manager tbh

ohh, I have a 2.6 year old who puts her own shoes on, chooses her clothes and gets dressed (including tights) , gets jacket on and we haven't been wearing bibs for a while.

think it depends on if you have other children as well - I have 3 and it was just something that she was left to do - and also wants to be like her older sisters. I think it's whatever is easiest for the mum to be honest - I have a friend who is still getting her 6 year old daughter dressed.

Your ds doesn't sound too unusual for a 3 yo - my dd is 3 2/3 now but she only came out of nappies a few months ago, tends not to wear a bib but frequently makes a mess, can get herself dressed (badly) when motivated but will often ask for help, drinks out of a proper cup now but was probably still using a cup with a lid 6 months ago. I think it's only in the last few months she's really started wanting to be independent. Your nursery's demands sound optimistic for an only-just 3 - there will be plenty of kids that will do all those things, but certainly not all children will.

DD still wears a lunch tabard/bib thing. I find it practical. She doesn't care.
She can put on wellies and slip-on shoes but can't do buckles or velcro.
She can put on a coat if I start her off but otherwise forget it.
She can't put on socks.
She is toilet trained day and night but still gets her bottom wiped.

The nursery sound a bit harsh as children are all so different aren't they?

I'm sure it's a case of practice makes perfect though. I think my children are always a bit behind the curve but they are lovely people!

thanks for reply compo and ramona. I have 2 other children, one is 15 the other is 12, so with me and DH there are always helpers around to do such things. I think having younger kids would mean that he would HAVE to do some things like shoes and coat.

Sounds like it's time to start with easier/more fun bits - like trying to put shoes on, or coat.
With an open cup make sure you never fill it up, just about few sips for him to practice!

Oh, and my best friend's DD just turned 3 and she can write her name (and it's not a short name)
I repeat to myself every day - every child is different, every child is different,...

what do i expect him to do. lots of things i know he can do, like carry his plate to table, eat neatly with a fork & deal with an open cup at the table ( and hes a dab hand at mashing potatoes too). then there are other things we are working towards that he will do sometimes if motivated enough. putting on own wellies or shoes and coat for instance. hes as lazy as the next child and quite happy for someone else to do things for him .
BUT this my child not yours. There are bound to be things your child does that mine doesn't.
What your nursery are asking sound like reasonable things for a 3 yr old to be doing already or be working towards. If a child is at nursery full time them nursery staff should be encouraging him to master those skills. If hes only there one or two days a week then home and nursery need to work together at the same pace.

I think it's fair enough for nursery to encourage these things but not expect that every child can already do them. There are such huge differences at this age.

My dd (3 in 2 weeks time) can put on shoes with velcro but not buckles but often gets wrong feet, eats with fork with some mess, drinks from open cup at table, doesn't wear bib but doesn't keep totally clean, toilet trained day but not night, still has accidents sometimes, and can chat for Britain!

at 3 my son

• could put on his coat but not do it up
• could put shoes on with a little help.
• was toilet trained night and day but -couldn't wipe own bum
• Had a muslin as a cowboy neckercheif thing to mop up drips
• could drink out of a cup/glass

he's 4.10 now

• can do buttons but not zips
• can put own shoes on but still needs to check if the 'feet' are right
• still needs help with wiping his bum

wear a tabard at school (as do all the children till year 2) for lunch means uniform is immaculate so harldy any washing (boiler suit worn over uniform at lunchtime)

• can eat with a knife and fork but can't cut things harder than a fish finger
• can get himself totally dressed (panst, socks, vest, t-shirt, jumper + trousers) and go and get the clothes for himself.
• Just starting on cleaning own teeth as dentist said to start

well if he is still in nappies he is hardly going to be taking himself to the toilet is he (twats!).

Mine can do his own shoes (but mostly just sits there saying "help me, help me").
Can't put on own coat, but usually manages the zip if he tries (but doesn't try very often - see shoes).
Takes himself to the toilet, doesn't wipe or flush.
drinks out of an open cup or a fruit shoot type bottle.
Hasn't had a bib for ages, but isn't a messy eater.

He was 3 about two weeks ago.

am imprssed at a 2 yo old putting on tights as i am 35 and sometimes struggle...

Ds is three and doesn;t do much for himself despite a lot of encouragement from me.

He can take off his coat (and drop it on the floor), take off his shoes and put them away. but he often wont; as he wants me to do it.

He could put on his coat if he tried, ditto shoes buthe won;t try and we are usually in a hurray so I do it.

He will go to the loo himself but needs me to put the light on, butis happy to take off trousers, go to loo, wipe bum (I rewipe after) and wash and dry hands and put pants etc back on.

He stil drinks out of a sipy cup most of the time, but will drink out of a cup if I am there to keep it under control.

HE couldn;t put on a T-shirt ot take one off, he can just about manageg a vest off with a bit of encouragement. HE's no where near dressing himself.

I think a lot of it is laziness!

Sorry not clear there.

I meant my DS not anyone else's children!

mine is nowhere near dressing himself either.
From discussions with friends I do think that girls (in general) do this alot earlier than boys.

One of my mindees (2 last sunday) can:

put her own shoes and coat on.

drink from a open cup

dress herself in trousers and top.

is not toilet trained at all.

Another minde at 5.8 cannot:

Put hr shoes on the right feet unless reminded.

drink from a open cup with out spilling it, eat without getting hit all over herself

put her coat on the right way round.

all kids are different, some are more able than others.

In my setting all mindees are encouraged to have ago at being independent, fairly young, not all are capable, till a bit older.

I always wonder what people mean by children so young being able to do these things.

If they mean by going to the toilet independently, coming out with poo smeared up their backs, wee all over the toilet seat and a bit splashed down their trousers, water splashed all around the sink, their pants showing over their not properly pulled up trousers and paper towels all over the floor, then I expect most barely-3-year olds who are out of nappies could just about manage that. But is it kind to expect them to do that, or hygienic??? And if they mean by getting coats on independently, frequently getting their arms in the wrong holes, putting the coat on upside down or trying to shove their arms into the hood and being totally incapable of actually doing up the zip on a thick winter coat, then probably most 3-year olds could manage that, too, and would benefit from the learning curve it provides! And if they mean by putting shoes on independently, often putting them on the wrong feet and not doing the velcro up tightly enough if at all, then again, most 3-year olds should probably be able to manage that.

Skills like these should certainly be actively encouraged from about 3-years old, if not earlier if there is any interest, but should not be expected. Some children just aren't ready this young and genuinely find these skills difficult to master. Others, of course, will have found these things easy for months.

ds is 2.9. can take off shoes, coat etc but can only put his own hat and socks on (nothing else and has no interest in learning how to do it). He wears a bib because he doesn't like getting messy, uses a cup with lid unless he's at the table when I make him have an unlidded one and we've only just started potty training him. He still screams getting into and out of bath, has strops daily about hair brushing, getting into car etc etc. It doesn't matter, he's gorgeous, funny and clever and will be able to do all those things in his own time.
I think your nursery should be thinking about his achievements not stressing you over what he can't do yet.

My friend's DD taught my DS (both 3) a 'magic trick' to put his coat on. He lays his coat on the floor, stands at he neck end facing it, puts his hands in the arms and then flips it over his head in a 'tadaaaaa' fashion.

Obviously it's not easier to do it that way but it does encourage him to do it. He can also put wellies on and shoes but can't do them up.

He should have some idea about toilet training even if not trained yet, definately should say he is weeing/pooing, know what toilet is for. A girl I expect to be toilet trained by 3yo dd1 was 22mths.
They should be able to put loose fitting clothes off and things like jogging bottoms on or things not requiring fastenings done iyswim.
Certainly should be able to eat with minimal mess although I know a 5yo who pays so little attention at meal times that she still has a bib DD hasn't worn a bib since just 2yo i.e. 1yr. Except when others assume she needs one.
I give dd1 3y (Jan 09) 360 cup for pre-school to stop other children spilling it, she wouldn't. She would just leave it somewhere silly like on a low table iyswim.
He should be bathing with no fuss really but it all depends on how much you have babied him.
If your expectations are low he will do very little, if your expectations are high he will achieve more.

I have to say that I don't think dd is the norm and many of her peers are no different from your ds. Also bare in mind that being able to do things and actually co-operating are very different!

Oh yes the flip over the head coat trick! Just remembered they all did this in a line at my dd's playgroup!

I think you have to take the plunge with things like tippy cups. It sound like you baby him a lot (which isnt a bad thing really).

It's up to you;

if you can put up with a bit of mess for a while he will sort out the feeding/drinking.

Or he can use a tippycup and bib for ages (til he is embarrassed about it I guess)

In Poland kids are spoon fed until they are about 4 often. (the horror of other diners when we were their this summer my very stubborn 16 month old feeding himself was pretty funny)

bathing thing is annoying but again up to you - how do you react? My DS loves baths so I would tell him if he screamed he wouldnt get a bath (and he wouldn't until he stopped screaming) and if he screamed coming out he wouldnt get a story (the ultimate punishment in this house!)

Dressing - again if you spend time to teach him he will learn.

Ds1 is 3.5

he can take all his clothes off and put on his underpants and trousers

can put on tops once his head is through!

potty training - everyone has their own ideas about, I personally find that if you leave it too long they get so willfull it can be harder but too early can be pointless. (my DS1 was oiut of nappies at about 2.2 during the day, still in at night)

basically if neither of you mind these things it shouldnt be a problem, he will eventually learn.

I would be more concerned about the nursery's attitude than about what your ds can or can't do. It's madness that they expect all children to magically start being able to do things just because they've had a birthday.

Dd is almost 3yrs old and is able to do things like dressing herself, using the toilet etc but they are not things that I would expect her to be able to do. Every child develops at their own rate and the nursery should recognise this.

I haven't had a 3yo for a while but I would expect them (if NT) to

Drink out of an open cup at all times

Not wear a bib at all

Make an effort at getting dressed (eg t-shirt and trousers, but coat, socks, shoes a lot harder)

Be out of nappies or pretty much (but not nec taking self to toilet tbh)

How to achieve these - well, only offer drink in open cup - and not while wandering about, they have to sit down to have a drink; throw away bibs and make it clear you expect less mess; start by asking him to undress (a lot easier) and start with pyjamas, and make clear he is a big boy to help etc; nappies well that's a whole threa surely, but just be firm and clear.

And lots and lots of praise when he manages any of this.

Agree nursery sounds a bit harsh on yr DS.

ds1 is not the world's most coordinated child - he only twigged how to drink from a normal cup and use a spoon aged 2 and a half...he has just turned 4 and can pretty much dress himself, manage the toilet alone, is starting to use a knife... but we have had to help him a lot.
ds2 could use a spoon aged 13 months and now only splobs food on his bib/tray on purpose (21 months).
surely it depends on the child?
ds1 may be badly coordinated but he is very good at numbers - different strengths and weaknesses and I would have thought a good nursery would be helping a child with both their strengths and weaknesses. Certainly ds1 is being helped to develop his social skills at nursery, for example.

Ds is 23 months, and uses an open cup, feeds himself with fork and spoon, hasn't had a dummy since 12mths, asks for the potty/toilet fairly reliably, can undress trousers/coat/shoes/socks/hat and dress socks/shoes/hat/trousers.

All children are different though, and while you can encourage independence, it's unfair of the nursery to expect all these things of your ds the minute he turns 3. I would try to get rid of the dummy, and encourage him to practice feeding himself as much as possible - his coordination will improve with practice. Emphasise how grown up he is, and make him feel proud to be doing things for himself.