Could there be something wrong? 6yo ds3 in trouble at school.

[andlipsticktoo]

Not sure where to start.
Ds3 in year 1 getting into regular trouble at school. I am very new to this as ds1 and ds2 have been 'model pupils' and now with ds3 (4 yrs younger) having to speak to his teacher daily.
He is doing things like; writing 'poo' in his book to make the other children in his group laugh. Then when he is reprimanded, saying 'we don't listen to teachers, they smell' - this happened today .
Not sitting still, rolling around on the floor, putting things in his mouth, being very fidgety.
Getting very angry and shouting when accused by others. Has pushed/hit other children during angry outbursts.
Refusing to do/finish work.
He is academically very bright and extremely able, but his behaviour is really worrying me.
Could there be something wrong, or is he just naughty?

ICANDOTHAT another thing to think about......

School is VERY VERY different to home. The social interaction for a start. They have far more to deal with at school and this will mean their behaviour is different. Transition between assembly and class, playtime outside and coming into class may seem simple but they are surrounded by 29 busy children, they are buzzng from playtime and the teacher is asking them to come in and sit down quietly etc etc. This is often when poor behaviour starts, some children just can't cope with all this 'extra' stuff.

mlm yes I should have said I do think he needs to see that his parents are supporting school and do think that what happens there is important...it's a fine balance I guess but I think by being positive about the school, and showing an interest in work he brings home, and making clear that you appreciate what teachers do etc, I think that's enough at this stage personally. The detail of his problems is what should be left at school so that he can be himself at home.

And I have to say i have noticed that my ds really desperately wants to keep home and school seperate and doesn't want me in on helping duties or visits! so it may be that he will respond well to stickers/rewards at home etc NOT relating to school stuff

andlipsticktoo - your post could have been written by me!

My Ds is 9 and is almost exactly how you describe your Ds. One of the things a find most frustrating is how unpredictable he is. Some days he is Ok and other days he is playing the clown or refusing to do some task.

I've pondered going down the Ed Psychologist route too so I shall be watching this thread with interest.

I wonder every now and then if he has ADHD but the Headmistress thinks not because he can "organise his thoughts" (her words). I'm inclined to agree with this but he can be so bloody difficult.

Like yours, he is quite easy at home, although he never stop talking which is very wearing.

On a good day I think he is spirited, clever and has boundless energy. On a bad day I worry that he is going to ruin his future by pissing off the teachers!

Vulgar this will sound a bit grim and its not meant to be.......unless you wanted to medicate your little boy a diagnoses won't really change anything. You can do all that you would if you new he did have ADHD now without a label ie.

Omega oils
Diet changes
A physical programme like Dors
Brain Gym
An IEP in school, perhaps leading to extra support etc.
Visual timetable at home and at school

etc etc etc

Hi andlipsticktoo! Did he have any behavioural problems before school age?

I am wondering if this is a temporary behavioural problem or if it is something deeper like ADHD or aspergers. Just a thought

Another thought that strikes me, could he be bbeing silly at school because he is bored by work that is too easy for him?

HTH

But ime a diagnoses makes it much easier to get DLA, which is well worth applying for.....

Yurtgirl....OP has already highlighted he may be bored but even so he should be flying through his work and ready for the next thing. The trouble is with more challenging work is that they may equally go off task unless well supported, its a fine balance.

It comes down to high expectations from home and school, clear rewards and clear behaviour managment.

He may need a table of his own - learning station for half the day then work with his friends the other half??

DLA?????

Have only skimmed the thread as want to go to bed so sorry if someone has already talked about this.

HAve worked with ots in the past and I remember discussions about children who were fidgety but still actively listening. Some success was achieved with these children when they were allowed to fiddle with/chew on something. i.e. they needed some way of channeling their need to be active so that they could then sit more still and focus.

Stress balls were suggested and someone on a thread a while back found these.

Other suggestions were to get them to bounce on a trampoline (an indoor one is fine) before school for as long as possible to expel some energy.

Not sure if these suggestions would be of help to the op but may be for some others.

Also google 'sensory processing disorder' as you may find some other ideas

Is he getting sweets from someone?
Is he bored with his lessons if very able?
Is he being bullied and trying to get with the in crowd?
Has he been reprimanded by that teacher unfairly and feels he is being picked on?

mlm19- I definitely don't want to go down the medication route. I know that would be the wrong thing for him.

Actually, my motive for having him tested is a bit .

I wondered if it turned out that he was very bright the school may by less on his case . . .

A lot of teachers have noticed that he appears as if he isn't listening but then can do the work.

Unfortunately he can be quite lazy too and will pretend that he can't do the homework in the hope that I will help him.

Oh dear, i'm painting a really grim picture of my Ds who is a real sweetie most of the time.

Sometimes I think that it might be a case that some children, often boys, DO find school too restricting and a square peg should not be rammed into a round hole. there again, i am all for a bit of self control.

Sorry I didnt notice that

My ds is above average academically (with Aspergers) and quite often refuses to do his work because he cant be bothered as he thinks its too easy.

andlipsticktoo - I would take him to your gp, share your concerns and request a referral to a specialist peadeatrician (sp?) which might get you some answers.

Vulgar
As a mummy of a DS I totally agree. At 15months he already takes IQ oils, does brain gym and has a hyper free diet! Now that is !!

I think the independant schools are better for boys, but that is a whole new thread!

yurtgirl the op clearly said that her ds is sociable and trying to make his 3 friends laugh- not typical of Aspergers!
As other people have said if he is capable of long periods of concentration at home it is unlikely to be ADHD. Check any ingredients in things he has before school as this could be a trigger for hyperactivity. TBH though I find most children like this in winter because they seem to get less activity due to bad weather etc. I definately feel from reading later posts that he might be at the higher end of bright/ maybe gifted if he is completing work easily despite messing about. Definately get him tested because the 'naughty' label is so destructive.

mim - sorry DLA = Disability Living Allowance, which if your child is eligable adds a significant £££ into your bank.

The form is 40 pages long but well worth bothering to trudge through. IME you are more likely to be granted DLA if you have a definite diagnoses

Before ds had his many people told me - Oh you dont need a diagnoses, dont bother, its just a label etc.

The day the letter arrived I jumped for joy and relief - because it shows for definite that he has special issues that he needs help with. And most importantly his needs are not somehow my fault! DS has found the diagnoses reassuring too - it helps him togive a reason to why he finds many things about life difficult

My ds has Aspergers
My ds is sociable

mlm - my Ds has been on fish oils since about 2.

And he is at independant school too which he loves. Lots of exercise and small classes and he seems popular. Sometimes the "precious" parents get on my nerves a bit but that's a whole other thread.

FWIW he loves to try and make others laugh, often with his appallingly bad jokes!

Also spends a large part of his day putting things in his mouth.
He gets very angry and aggressive and screams alot.
also obsessive about routine
often fidgets about, finds sitting on a chair properly a challenge esp at mealtimes
Concentrates for ages on something he is interested in

Lots of parallels between your ds and mine andlipsticktoo! Get a referral to a specialist pead and see what they say

HTH

Thank you all for your replies!
Yurtgirl I have wondered about aspergers purely because a friend of mine has 2 ds with it and the younger one is very similar to my ds (though actually hers is in even more trouble at shcool, hurting others and damaging equipment).

It is difficult because he is as bright as my other 2 dss, but they were always so well behaved at school. Obviously they had/have their moments at home.

I'm with you Vulgar in that sometimes I think it is just that he is spirited, but wonder if he was diagnosed with something whether the teacher (and myself) would be more understanding.

I a m extremely supportive of the school, and always talk over what has happened with both ds and teacher, making it clear that what he has done is wrong. The school have a very clear punishment system, If a child has to be told to do /not to do something more than twice they get a 'warning' which is recorded in a book. This is consistent throughout the school incl lunch break.
3 warnings results in time out in another class, and 5 results in a visit to HT and having to write apology letter.
Ds has had 2 time outs in 2 weeks and 1 visit to HT.

He is at a good state primary.
His teacher knows he is bright as she often says he is, but she is worried he may lag behing the other bright ones in his group if he refuses to do the work set, and continues to miss lessons during time out!

He says he teacher doesn't like him which makes me v . Unfortunately he is probably right..

I did wonder if I was doing the right thing by having a sticker chart at home for positive behaviour at school, I now think yu might be right and keep home completely separate.

Vulgar our dss do sound incredibly alike!
Will try fish oils.
He does a lot of exercise, cycles to school and back daily 1.5m each way, runs around for at least 45 mins after school daily, swims twice a week.

I have 3 boy cousins who have Aspergers out of a family of 4 boys, none of whom are sociable, all very high functioning intellectually though. Lack of socialising/intraversion/ being a 'loner' are usually the first pointers in young children with Aspergers.

No he certainly has friends. Doesn't always play appropriately with those of his own age. Doesn't get invited to parties though, which is difficult as the older 2 do.
Plays beautifully with older children, mostly older girls.
He's not a genius or anything, just in top 10% of his class.

I think he sounds more like a gifted child than one with Aspergers, as gifted children often show more maturity than their peers and find it difficult to relate to them due to their advanced understanding and it would make sense that he prefers girls because they tend to mature more quickly than boys the same age. I would try to see an Ed Psych to establish whether he is gifted and is not being challenged enough.

I think he can actually be immature for hhs age though.

In his end of Foundation Stage Profile, he had exceeded in all areas except social, emotional and behavioural. That is why I think he plays particularly well with older girls as they would not accept him being immature.

Can you tell I am torturing myself with this? Aargh